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Post Reply Real Martial Artist vs Pro Football Player! Who would win?
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Posted 4/19/17 , edited 4/19/17

Kavalion wrote:

I dunno, man. Is the Quarterback allowed to pick up a rock and throw it through the martial artist's skull? They gotta play to their strengths to win.


I guess, even football hurt if it thrown by Quarterback!

Remember the movie The Last Boy Scout? The part where he threw the Football at the guy in tub and the senator?
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Posted 4/19/17
Skill beats Physical ability, but luck will triumph over skill every time. While skill is the primary factory in a fight between two opponents, a single lucky shot can take out a highly skilled opponent when the one giving to lucky shot has superior size. A boxer vs boxer fight will be both skill vs skill and size vs size (it's why they have weight classes and simple physics). A trained vs untrained fight will largely be skill vs luck, but luck is only a factor if there is sufficient difference is size. A under 105lb(atomweight) female trained in martial arts vs a 250lb+ athlete not trained in combat will likely be one-sided in the athletes favor if they can land a single strong hit, yet she would still have a chance of winning if she can get him in to a proper hold using her legs(and cause him to pass out, tap out, etc..). However, a middleweight+(185+lb) MMA style martial artist would have the advantage easily vs most non-combat athletes. Things becomes less clear as the sizes and skill levels change, but then the question becomes.

How much of a factor is skill vs size? (And then you must ask which components of skill and size are most important).
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Posted 4/19/17

JanusCascade wrote:


I seen it before, but didn't go all the way. Its kinda of silly..

What I mean by pressure points is knowing where to strike on the body to deliver deadly blow. But nothing like Fist of the North Star! :p



Well yeah, Fist of the North Star gets a pass because it's hyper awesome animation that is what we wish we could be but know we can't. The guy in the video wishes he could be, but doesn't get that he can't
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Posted 4/19/17 , edited 4/19/17

Kreationz wrote:

Skill beats Physical ability, but luck will triumph over skill every time. While skill is the primary factory in a fight between two opponents, a single lucky shot can take out a highly skilled opponent when the one giving to lucky shot has superior size. A boxer vs boxer fight will be both skill vs skill and size vs size (it's why they have weight classes and simple physics). A trained vs untrained fight will largely be skill vs luck, but luck is only a factor if there is sufficient difference is size. A under 105lb(atomweight) female trained in martial arts vs a 250lb+ athlete not trained in combat will likely be one-sided in the athletes favor if they can land a single strong hit, yet she would still have a chance of winning if she can get him in to a proper hold using her legs(and cause him to pass out, tap out, etc..). However, a middleweight+(185+lb) MMA style martial artist would have the advantage easily vs most non-combat athletes. Things becomes less clear as the sizes and skill levels change, but then the question becomes.

How much of a factor is skill vs size? (And then you must ask which components of skill and size are most important).


Considering in your example of how one sided the size difference between a woman and man has to be for an untrained athlete to stand a chance I'd argue skill is a far far far larger factor in a fight then all the muscle an American football player can muster. Let alone the difference needed for a male to male combat scenario.

And I'd say the component that makes skill the real deciding factor in a fight versus raw and untrained strength is the advantage of bio-physics and psychology. Untrained fighters make wild and overpowered blows , it doesn't take a boxer's powerful right hook to end a person. A clean and precise jab with only the bare minimum force to a person's windpipe can put them out of action. The strength required to do that is something a thirteen old is capable of producing let alone a grown man or woman. And many grappling based arts show smaller people are more then capable of putting people twice or more their size into positions that will lead to their victory.

Then there is the mental conditioning any martial artist worth their salt undergoes. It's more then pain tolerance, it's an ability to read their opponents and know what the slightest shift in muscles mean. It's learning to feint to pretend openings their lesser skilled opponents will go for then hitting them with precise counterattacks that reduce or outright eliminate their ability to fight. And it's toying with them to induce their opponents rage so that said opponent gets even more sloppy then they already were.
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Posted 4/19/17
I personally consider myself on the lower end of the spectrum and choice to avoid fights whenever possible even though I have had some formal martial arts training combined with basic training in the USMC and consider myself to be in decent physical shape. Even with what I would consider to be a bare minimum both in skill and physicality along with a high pain tolerance, I still would avoid a fight with almost any opponent without knowing their background first and would avoid a fight vs ANY professionally trained fighter even if they were smaller knowing my limited size advantage (6' ~160lbs) would negligible to their skill at best. You can not lose a fight your not part of and even though I have never lost one I have been in(mostly because I avoided ones I wasn't sure I could win with the exception of ones I was forced in to with no other option), that doesn't matter.
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Posted 4/19/17
"Martial artist" is such a broad category.

However, size doesn't protect your head or legs and once you're on the ground it does little for you. If we're talking any of the forms of martial arts that are designed to do serious damage they can overwhelm an untrained opponent with surprising ease. Regardless of size.

No one with any sort of training or combat experience is just going wade in to a straight contest of strength with a larger opponent.
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Posted 4/19/17

Kreationz wrote:

I personally consider myself on the lower end of the spectrum and choice to avoid fights whenever possible even though I have had some formal martial arts training combined with basic training in the USMC and consider myself to be in decent physical shape. Even with what I would consider to be a bare minimum both in skill and physicality along with a high pain tolerance, I still would avoid a fight with almost any opponent without knowing their background first and would avoid a fight vs ANY professionally trained fighter even if they were smaller knowing my limited size advantage (6' ~160lbs) would negligible to their skill at best. You can not lose a fight your not part of and even though I have never lost one I have been in(mostly because I avoided ones I wasn't sure I could win with the exception of ones I was forced in to with no other option), that doesn't matter.


And I say no matter how secure a position is there is always a way of assaulting it. Non-linear thinking is the hallmark of any good combatant. And the will to win alongside the skill hard earned from past experience elevates even the smallest above the largest.






runec wrote:


No one with any sort of training or combat experience is just going wade in to a straight contest of strength with a larger opponent.


Which kinda negates any advantage an American Football player would have no?

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Posted 4/19/17

Ranwolf wrote:
Which kinda negates any advantage an American Football player would have no?


Indeed. You can throw your bulk around in a street fight against another brawler, but someone trained in MMA, Muay Thai, Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, etc is going to fuck you up right proper. Because you won't know the right counters or techniques to avoid being taken to the ground, having your joints snapped or getting your skull/throat rocked.

You can't bulk your way out of a concussion or an arm bar.

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Posted 4/19/17 , edited 4/19/17

Ranwolf wrote:
And I say no matter how secure a position is there is always a way of assaulting it. Non-linear thinking is the hallmark of any good combatant. And the will to win alongside the skill hard earned from past experience elevates even the smallest above the largest.


That is why a good fighter is not looking to finish a fight in one or two strikes, but rather looking to create opportunities to finish the fight. Whether it's a dropped guard, a tired out opponent, a weakened limb, or some other advantage they can turn against their opponent(including the opponent's size itself). Skill is about learning which information is valuable and which can be rejected as inconsequential. Learning "moves" only adds to the array of the ways you can take advantage of those opportunities. Experience in actual fights will put your assumptions about which is the best "move" in a particular situation to the test. That is why even though someone may be skilled in a particular style, another person may easily win against them with more moderate training in multiple styles if they also have actual fighting experience. The information you learn from actual experience in a particular situation will help you to better deal with that situation when you face it again. A typical sparring match has a given set of rules, but change the rules and a match that went one direction could easily go another.

I think it is interesting that Dragon Ball is exploring this via "Martial Arts Tournaments" rather than just pure power vs power as it has been many times in the past.

Dragon Ball Super spoiler warning:

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Posted 4/19/17
uuhh football players chase balls around

martial artists... yeah

why is this even a comparison
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Posted 4/19/17

rawratl wrote:


Ranwolf wrote:


jessetmia wrote:

To those claiming that (american) football players are slow. You should pay more attention. These guys, especially at the professional level, pretty much eat, train and workout all day, every day. They are on an amazing schedule and are definitely not slow.

Now as for the winner, all things being equal, the martial artist would be at a serious advantage, especially if they are a wrestler, grappler. Stand up could be a toss up. These guys are practically used to getting hit by cars, so I mean, I'm sure they could take a hit.


They are slow, American football players train for endurance and strength not the kind of speed and twitch reflex required by a martial artist . Straight line and horizontal speed aren't enough to win an actual fight but that is all a American football player would bring to the table.


Actually that's wrong, they do train for speed and twitch reflex just the same as many martial artists. Most of them are doing MMA in the offseason to cross-train. Some NFL players are pretty much the best all around athletes on the planet.


So they are martial artists, because they practice MMA. Once again it's the martial training.
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Posted 4/19/17

Steelmonk wrote:


So they are martial artists, because they practice MMA. Once again it's the martial training.


What is your definition of MMA? BJJ and Muay Thai, these are both martial arts in my opinion. No amount of Judo is going to help a 130lb person take on a 250lb chunk of muscle that is arguable faster and stronger. It's great to think about, but all the videos with the body builders earlier aren't even relevant. NFL players dont train like body builders.
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Posted 4/19/17 , edited 4/19/17
Broad comparisons like this are generally pretty silly. It will pretty much always come down to circumstances, and specific characteristics of the individuals involved.
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Posted 4/19/17

Sogno- wrote:

uuhh football players chase balls around

martial artists... yeah

why is this even a comparison


It's not quite that clear cut because of the sheer size. Football players are huge and strong. I think sufficient skill and dexterity would minimize these, after all it's a moot point if you can hit harder if you can't hit in the first place. At the same time most martial artists would have to be very careful as there's minimal margin for error.

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Posted 4/19/17

rawratl wrote:


Steelmonk wrote:


So they are martial artists, because they practice MMA. Once again it's the martial training.


What is your definition of MMA? BJJ and Muay Thai, these are both martial arts in my opinion. No amount of Judo is going to help a 130lb person take on a 250lb chunk of muscle that is arguable faster and stronger. It's great to think about, but all the videos with the body builders earlier aren't even relevant. NFL players dont train like body builders.


But a 250 lb martial artist will kick his ass. You are saying a 250lb line backer can beat a 250lb MMA champion? you're nuts. 130lbs? vs 250? No man, you have to apply the same weight class. Anything else is building a case on nonequivalents. Example a 70lb little girl can kill a 300lb linebacker with a .45. Yeah? Of course. But a martial artist of equivalent skill level and class to a football player is going to win. That's just a fact. And a champion martial artist at 170 lbs will kill a 250 lb line backer. Ever been in a fist fight? with that little wiry bastard who cant be hit or wrestled? I have and it's nasty. Worst ass kicking I ever got was from a small guy. Corporal Vincent Adair. The littlest most bad ass in the first Infantry division. Weighed in at 150?
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