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Post Reply ACLU believes all drug use should be decriminalized
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21 / M / Imouto Sanctuary
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Posted 4/20/17 , edited 4/20/17

Shinosushi wrote:

When do we draw the line?


It may be that it stops treating it as a crime but not necessarily a problem. Hard to tell, the ACLU is very freedom oriented. This points to drug use, but nothing about supplying it.

It seems that the drug use should not be punished at all, but health programs to discourage it.

https://www.aclu.org/blog/speak-freely/its-time-decriminalize-personal-drug-use-and-possession-basic-rights-and-public

At this point, drug use and possession is a felony, and can net one more years than if you actually raped someone.
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Posted 4/21/17

MysticGon wrote:


descloud wrote:

It really depends on the law you are referring to.

Marijuana laws are beyond retarded and will never work. Even Obama admitted it's safer to smoke weed than it is to drink alcohol.

Now when you talk about cocaine or that chemically made stuff in a lab.....different story.


Yeah I'm for the legalization of weed. 100%

It's the harder shit people are ODing on that I'm worried about.


We are in agreement then.
toxxin 
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25 / Nowhere in partic...
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Posted 4/21/17 , edited 5/2/17
Use should be decriminalized whereas the selling/distributing should still be illegal. Rehab would be more effective than prison in the case of drug addicts. Though I think mandatory minimums should be abolished, or at least actually fit the crime. But I have too many complaints about the American prison system to get into it.
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23 / M / Minnesota
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Posted 4/21/17
At the end of the day drugs are a victimless crime. If someone harms or robs someone for drugs you arrest them for that. It's nobodies business how I or anyone else spends their free time as long as it doesn't hurt them.

Making drugs illegal does nothing to stop the purchase of them and only puts drug users in sketchy situations having to deal with criminals.

That's how I look at it anyway.
qwueri 
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32 / M / TN
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Posted 4/21/17

uncletim wrote:

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-swiss-drugs-idUSTRE69O3VI20101025

We should do what Switzerland is doing. Since they started this street crime has dropped by close to 90% Street walker prostitution has pretty much vanished


While funding going to treatment rather than drugbusts wold be ideal, the US has entire communities decimated by widespread opioid and methamphetamine use. I'm not sure how effective a treatment only system would be for helping those communities.
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53 / M / In
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Posted 4/21/17
The war on drugs is a complete failure

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJUXLqNHCaI

it might be time to send up the white flag
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Posted 4/21/17 , edited 5/2/17
Make only hardcore drugs legal and then hand out massive quantities for free. The war on drugs will win itself.
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F
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Posted 4/21/17 , edited 4/21/17
Decriminalised? Sure. People who are struggling with a substance abuse disorder don't need to be thrown in jail. The penal system isn't going to do anything constructive for them. It just strips away protective factors like family, friends, and jobs while inflicting or magnifying negative factors that contribute to substance abuse disorders such as isolation and emotional distress. It's counterproductive and extremely wasteful to lock someone up merely for being addicted to a substance. Save that for when people commit actual crimes, such as people who drive drunk.

With that in mind, I'm not exactly on board with the crowd that wants everything to be legal for recreational use. There are serious differences between drugs' profiles, and ignoring that fact can lead to disaster.

For example, you don't need any sort of training whatsoever in order to be able to safely administer marijuana (you just eat or smoke it and wait for the THC to kick in), its therapeutic index* is (relatively speaking) off the charts, its withdrawal syndrome is relatively mild, its side effect profile entails such horrific things as finding unfunny things hilarious and getting very hungry, and its most deleterious effects are pretty much limited to heavy chronic users, people who start using it too early, people with cardiovascular conditions, and people with genetic predispositions toward schizophrenia. It's not that "bad" as drugs go, and I fully support marijuana being completely legal for recreational use at or above 18 years old.

Contrast this with something like heroin or morphine. The typical route of administration for these drugs is, for recreational use anyway, injection directly into the bloodstream. Intravenous administration is the most dangerous route without proper training. The other routes of administration (and especially oral) give you enough lag to either adjust your dose or evacuate the drug before things get too far out of control (such as by inducing vomiting). Intravenous administration doesn't give you that much lag (not none at all, but very little). Also, while pretty much all opioids are equally efficacious (they elicit about the same relative "strength" of effect), they are decidedly not all equally "safe". There is a huge range of variation between their therapeutic indices. Add in that people can switch out morphine for codeine for heroin for whatever other opioid you want to look at because they're all cross-tolerant with each other and have more or less the same physiological effects and you can see how recreational use of these drugs could turn ugly in a hurry. Considering one of the main potential consequences of an opioid overdose is respiratory depression (you stop breathing), these are not drugs I'd like to see available for over the counter purchase for recreational use.

These are the kind of considerations I think ought to go into assessment of whether a particular substance should be available for legal recreational use.

*A therapeutic index is basically a quantitative assessment of a drug's relative "safety", representing the ratio between the amount of drug you need to get your desired effect in 50% of subjects and the amount that will induce toxicity in about 50% of subjects. The higher that ratio goes, the "safer" your drug is because the latter dose is becoming more distant from the former.
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24 / M / Spokane, Washingt...
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Posted 4/21/17
I do agree we should decriminalize all (currently) illegal substances save for a few that have the potential to be use against other people unwillingly. (if only i could remember the name of that dangerous mind control-ly powder. It kinda works like the mez gun from fallout 3. it's seriously fucked up and not cool.) If they want to fuck themselves over and not drag other people into it, let them. They are adults, and they don't need a big brother to be telling them what stupid stuff they can or can't do. Let alone one that will double down ruining their life harder then they already are themselves. However, a proper big brother will casually warn them that drugs are a bad idea, and give easily accessible advice if you want to do it anyway. Hell, even I did that for my little bro when he started getting into pot. Told him to drink plenty of water, just chill out on a couch, use protection, pace yourself on pot, doubly so for brownies, and that he really shouldn't at his age. Not that he listened to the last part, but at least he didn't get his girlfriend knocked up. ( can't really think of too many bad situations he would of got himself into, pot is not that dangerous.)

If their addiction gets out of hand to the point of theft, murder, or freelance prostitution (< that is a story for another day), then you can arrest them for that, since they are now involving innocents in their shit. Then force them to get help that they should have gone out for themselves before it got that bad.

I could post a lot more, but I just mainly want to sell the point of people should do whatever they want in the privacy of their lives if it isn't directly hurting others. I love personal freedom, especially the kind that lets you do stupid or funny stuff.

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Posted 4/21/17
i can see how it wouldn't be bad if they were made from outright illegal too being regulated or preferable only selling and making of it illegal while having it alone isn't enough too be jailed maybe some sort of mandatory rehab but not jail itself
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29 / F / The state of Wash...
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Posted 4/21/17 , edited 5/2/17
here in washington state weed is legal. just about everyone is smoking the stuff. its really bad. the poor, the middle class, and the rich all smoke the stuff. and weed consumption is really high (no pun intended) among whites.

so no legalizing all drugs is not the answer.

I think we should working on correcting the cause of drug use so people won't feel the need to take drugs.
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106 / M
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Posted 4/21/17
less people would do drugs if they saw what they did.
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Posted 4/21/17 , edited 4/21/17
In my opinion, legalization (vs decriminalization) of all drugs will likely make the country's drug problem worse. Yes, it may cut off some funding to the black market (but not all), however, we do have to worry about ease of access to drugs. While I have been unable to find any studies clearly addressing this correlation (please link me if you find any), tangential evidence (and in my opinion, logic) imply that ease of access to drugs increase likelihood of use and abuse.

While we will likely improve our systems for recovery if we steer from addressing addiction as a criminal problem to a public health problem, legalizing all drugs will likely funnel more people into this system. This ease of access will also make it easier for recovering addicts to relapse due to the increased ease of access and (to some degree) normalization of drug use.

So while there are benefits to legalization, I do not believe they are worth the problems we take on.

Sources:
http://chapterscapistrano.com/2014/03/prescription-drug-abuse-fueled-ease-access/
PRESCRIPTION DRUG ABUSE IS FUELED BY EASE OF ACCESS:
"Often, when drugs are made affordable and easily accessible, addiction is likely to follow."

https://www.hindawi.com/journals/jad/2013/709207/
Understanding Nonprescription and Prescription Drug Misuse in Late Adolescence/Young Adulthood
"Ease of access to nonprescription and prescription drugs has been suggested as responsible for the increased prevalence of misuse; however, [...] few researchers have studied the extent to which this is true."

http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.3109/00952999009001583
Racial Differences in Acceptability and Availability of Drugs and Early Initiation of Substance Use - Abstract Only
"Marijuana availability and peer use predicted substance initiation for all three racial groups."
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30 / M / Atlanta, GA, USA
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Posted 4/21/17

BlueOni wrote:

Decriminalised? Sure. People who are struggling with a substance abuse disorder don't need to be thrown in jail. The penal system isn't going to do anything constructive for them. It just strips away protective factors like family, friends, and jobs while inflicting or magnifying negative factors that contribute to substance abuse disorders such as isolation and emotional distress. It's counterproductive and extremely wasteful to lock someone up merely for being addicted to a substance.


Why would we want stabilizing influences on their routine when it involves a physical addiction to drugs? Obviously, you only want the stabilizing influences of those relationships after recovery to prevent relapse. To start with, you want to disrupt their unhealthy routine and move them to the stage where they recognize the problem of their drug addiction and work to recover.

Anyway, the main problem is how expensive it is to get addicts treatment. Really need to worry about preventing the spread of drug addiction.
runec 
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Posted 4/21/17

BlueOni wrote:
Decriminalised? Sure. People who are struggling with a substance abuse disorder don't need to be thrown in jail. The penal system isn't going to do anything constructive for them. It just strips away protective factors like family, friends, and jobs while inflicting or magnifying negative factors that contribute to substance abuse disorders such as isolation and emotional distress. It's counterproductive and extremely wasteful to lock someone up merely for being addicted to a substance. Save that for when people commit actual crimes, such as people who drive drunk.


This is essentially what they found when they decriminalized all drug use in Portugal. Removing the criminal penalty removed the stigma. Removing the stigma removed the barriers that many addicts face in getting assistance. More people sought help, addicts had better access to clean implements reducing HIV transmission rates, etc. Drugs became a less effective means of control and persuasion in other crimes such as prostitution.

Trafficking and what not is still illegal, but the police actually have the resources to focus on drug trafficking without having to devote time and money to simply locking up addicts. The amount of time and money the US justice system spends pointlessly arresting, prosecuting and locking up users is absurd. It's also done practically nothing except toss more warm bodies to the prison industrial complex.



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