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Post Reply Can this be considered immortality or something else?
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Posted 4/26/17

descloud wrote:


Ryulightorb wrote:


descloud wrote:

I think we need a thread to thoroughly explain what immortality is. And why it's not ideal for a human being to be immortal also.


It not being ideal is highly subjective on the front regarding ones self.

Society and immortality is well neither positive or negative there are good arguments for both sides.

I'm all for Human immortality (funny as its my life goal) so I may be more biased towards the positives.


Well you are entitled to your life goals and such.

But we really NEED a thread on explaining immortality because it's appalling how many don't understand what it means. Or for some reason, forget there are multiple forms of it.


Fair enough and i do agree the amount of misunderstanding is appalling :/
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Posted 4/27/17
Thanks for the comments, cool people.
anfex 
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Posted 4/27/17

Ryulightorb wrote:


anfex wrote:

Well, the word says its own meaning:

Im-mortal

Im: Expressing negation.
Mortal: Subject to death.

Which means it is not mortal, so it he dies even after a gazillion of years, he is not truly immortal but mortal.


Immortals can die


Immortal = Not Mortal = Non-mortal
A non-mortal person can die.

Mortal = Subject to death
A non-(subject to death) person can die.

A person that is not subject to death can die.
A person that can not die can die. What?

You see, it doesn't make sense, because death applies only to the opposite of Immortal, mortal. Also, please read the next answer.


descloud wrote:


Ryulightorb wrote:


descloud wrote:

I think we need a thread to thoroughly explain what immortality is. And why it's not ideal for a human being to be immortal also.


It not being ideal is highly subjective on the front regarding ones self.

Society and immortality is well neither positive or negative there are good arguments for both sides.

I'm all for Human immortality (funny as its my life goal) so I may be more biased towards the positives.


Well you are entitled to your life goals and such.

But we really NEED a thread on explaining immortality because it's appalling how many don't understand what it means. Or for some reason, forget there are multiple forms of it.


I think you are having a confusion between Literally and Figuratively.

Let's say for example that this Ivan is Immortal.

What does that mean literally? Well, it means that in the strict sense, he cannot die, in any way.
What does that mean figuratively? It means that he has some of the characteristics that an immortal person could have, let's say for example eternal youth and longevity, which will make you think that he is immortal for real, while in reality he is not, because he can die.

Additionally, it is really difficult to explain something fictitious like immortality, because the only example that I know, is me, I am immortal, I was there when the dinosaurs went extinct and when God created mankind.
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Posted 4/27/17 , edited 4/27/17

anfex wrote:


Ryulightorb wrote:


anfex wrote:

Well, the word says its own meaning:

Im-mortal

Im: Expressing negation.
Mortal: Subject to death.

Which means it is not mortal, so it he dies even after a gazillion of years, he is not truly immortal but mortal.


Immortals can die


Immortal = Not Mortal = Non-mortal
A non-mortal person can die.

Mortal = Subject to death
A non-(subject to death) person can die.

A person that is not subject to death can die.
A person that can not die can die. What?

You see, it doesn't make sense, because death applies only to the opposite of Immortal, mortal. Also, please read the next answer.


descloud wrote:


Ryulightorb wrote:


descloud wrote:

I think we need a thread to thoroughly explain what immortality is. And why it's not ideal for a human being to be immortal also.


It not being ideal is highly subjective on the front regarding ones self.

Society and immortality is well neither positive or negative there are good arguments for both sides.

I'm all for Human immortality (funny as its my life goal) so I may be more biased towards the positives.


Well you are entitled to your life goals and such.

But we really NEED a thread on explaining immortality because it's appalling how many don't understand what it means. Or for some reason, forget there are multiple forms of it.


I think you are having a confusion between Literally and Figuratively.

Let's say for example that this Ivan is Immortal.

What does that mean literally? Well, it means that in the strict sense, he cannot die, in any way.
What does that mean figuratively? It means that he has some of the characteristics that an immortal person could have, let's say for example eternal youth and longevity, which will make you think that he is immortal for real, while in reality he is not, because he can die.

Additionally, it is really difficult to explain something fictitious like immortality, because the only example that I know, is me, I am immortal, I was there when the dinosaurs went extinct and when God created mankind.



There are multiple types of immortality that is fact.

Biological immortality is type 1 believe which is one can only die from stuff like being shot aging and disease can't kill them.
Such beings are still classified as immortal.

EDIT: "Type 1: Immortality through longevity

Longevity grants the user the ability to live indefinitely and the inability to die of old age, illness, or natural causes, but does not prevent death through means such as being stabbed."


You are using a very lax version of immortal that does not cover all basis's.
Also Immortality isn't fictitious there are immortal animals such as certain species of jellyfish.


what you are referencing is
type 5: Perfect Immortality

Cannot die by any means whatsoever. Normally only omnipotents and high tier cosmic beings fit this category.


You seem to be disillusioned into the fact Immortal only = undying which is true it does mean undying however there is a lot of flexibility the word has evolved over centuries.
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Posted 4/27/17 , edited 4/27/17

qualeshia3 wrote:


dragonlord1234 wrote:

i've always consider immortal to generally mean ether you can't die or it would be very hard for you to die not simply for example elves are often called immortal but most only have longer life spans then humans but usually can die jsut as easily by for example stabbed falling maybe a bit more resistant to disease or poison but usually not immune i would call what elves have close to eternal youth or something then immortal assuming they don't have a set life span like for example most types only live on average at most a few hundred years rarely going past 1000 though some don't have a set life span then they might be able to claim to have eternal youth or something


So what do you consider someone like Ivan?


hmm well can he die like if he tripped and fell off a cliff or someone random person stabbed him with a regular knife or such if he can no if he can't possibly though it might be more accurate to call him a demi immortal or something. i normally think for example a being like a deity is a true immortal in that they can't die from age or other natural means and the only thing that could would be another deity or with the aid of a deity.
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Posted 4/27/17

qualeshia3 wrote:

I feel like there are different types of immortality. Anyone else feel the same?


For example: Ivan is a superhuman being that is also immortal. But it turns out that Ivan can only live to be a million years old then afterwards he dies.

Is Ivan immortal or simply something else entirely?


What do you think?




Ivan is not immortal in is invulnerable, Immortals can die but not from aging, example of this some jellyfish are immortal but can be killed. As long as they are not murdered they can live forever.
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Posted 4/27/17 , edited 4/27/17
Acording to the example he would be mortal,but if that means he actually can survive that long if he were as strong as a normal human is something else entirely.
And even then, Immortals also have to submit to nature's law meaning everything dies sooner or later.

And if u want a good idea what kind of different types of Immortality there are just to get an idea, go read UQ Holder sequel of Negima!(shameless plug i know)but even without that a very facinating series that tells u about what Immortality is and how do u live with it when u suddenly turn into one.
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Posted 4/27/17

dragonlord1234 wrote:


qualeshia3 wrote:


dragonlord1234 wrote:

i've always consider immortal to generally mean ether you can't die or it would be very hard for you to die not simply for example elves are often called immortal but most only have longer life spans then humans but usually can die jsut as easily by for example stabbed falling maybe a bit more resistant to disease or poison but usually not immune i would call what elves have close to eternal youth or something then immortal assuming they don't have a set life span like for example most types only live on average at most a few hundred years rarely going past 1000 though some don't have a set life span then they might be able to claim to have eternal youth or something


So what do you consider someone like Ivan?


hmm well can he die like if he tripped and fell off a cliff or someone random person stabbed him with a regular knife or such if he can no if he can't possibly though it might be more accurate to call him a demi immortal or something. i normally think for example a being like a deity is a true immortal in that they can't die from age or other natural means and the only thing that could would be another deity or with the aid of a deity.


Well, Ivan is based off a design for a race from a novel that I am working on. They can get injured or even killed unless they are saved by their own superpowers.
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Posted 4/27/17
if this person can live indefinitely and cannont be killed they are immortal and invincible. if they can live indefinitely but can die to natural causes ie someone killing them disease etc. they are biologically immortal but not invulnerable. sounds like this person is invulnerable to physical damage but not biologically immortal, so he can die from old age. the best difference you can make between bio immortality and immortality is that being immortal means you basically have the potential to live forever disregarding biological limitations (cell lifespans and what not) . Bio immortality has to do with aging and biological function overall, basically having to do with your bodies cells replicating and replacing themselves indefinitely with no damage to telomeres and what not.
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Posted 4/27/17

qualeshia3 wrote:

Well, Ivan is based off a design for a race from a novel that I am working on. They can get injured or even killed unless they are saved by their own superpowers.


Wait, so you're saying that Ivan CAN die, but his power prevents it? So is his power automatic, or does he need to activate it consciously? Is there a time limit or something? If this is an ability that only activates in certain conditions, then I think we've strayed away from immortality.
anfex 
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Posted 4/27/17

Ryulightorb wrote:


anfex wrote:


Ryulightorb wrote:


anfex wrote:

Well, the word says its own meaning:

Im-mortal

Im: Expressing negation.
Mortal: Subject to death.

Which means it is not mortal, so it he dies even after a gazillion of years, he is not truly immortal but mortal.


Immortals can die


Immortal = Not Mortal = Non-mortal
A non-mortal person can die.

Mortal = Subject to death
A non-(subject to death) person can die.

A person that is not subject to death can die.
A person that can not die can die. What?

You see, it doesn't make sense, because death applies only to the opposite of Immortal, mortal. Also, please read the next answer.


descloud wrote:


Ryulightorb wrote:


descloud wrote:

I think we need a thread to thoroughly explain what immortality is. And why it's not ideal for a human being to be immortal also.


It not being ideal is highly subjective on the front regarding ones self.

Society and immortality is well neither positive or negative there are good arguments for both sides.

I'm all for Human immortality (funny as its my life goal) so I may be more biased towards the positives.


Well you are entitled to your life goals and such.

But we really NEED a thread on explaining immortality because it's appalling how many don't understand what it means. Or for some reason, forget there are multiple forms of it.


I think you are having a confusion between Literally and Figuratively.

Let's say for example that this Ivan is Immortal.

What does that mean literally? Well, it means that in the strict sense, he cannot die, in any way.
What does that mean figuratively? It means that he has some of the characteristics that an immortal person could have, let's say for example eternal youth and longevity, which will make you think that he is immortal for real, while in reality he is not, because he can die.

Additionally, it is really difficult to explain something fictitious like immortality, because the only example that I know, is me, I am immortal, I was there when the dinosaurs went extinct and when God created mankind.



There are multiple types of immortality that is fact.

Biological immortality is type 1 believe which is one can only die from stuff like being shot aging and disease can't kill them.
Such beings are still classified as immortal.

EDIT: "Type 1: Immortality through longevity

Longevity grants the user the ability to live indefinitely and the inability to die of old age, illness, or natural causes, but does not prevent death through means such as being stabbed."


You are using a very lax version of immortal that does not cover all basis's.
Also Immortality isn't fictitious there are immortal animals such as certain species of jellyfish.


what you are referencing is
type 5: Perfect Immortality

Cannot die by any means whatsoever. Normally only omnipotents and high tier cosmic beings fit this category.


You seem to be disillusioned into the fact Immortal only = undying which is true it does mean undying however there is a lot of flexibility the word has evolved over centuries.


You: "There are multiple types of immortality that is fact."
Me: Hmm, okay I guess... is fact that there are multiple types of something fictitious...



You: "Also Immortality isn't fictitious there are immortal animals such as certain species of jellyfish."
Me: Holy crap, is that real?. I'll admit it, you got my interest here.



And then I search for it, and what I found is this:
"...It does this through the cell development process of transdifferentiation, which alters the differentiated state of the cells and transforms them into new types of cells. Theoretically, this process can go on indefinitely, effectively rendering the jellyfish biologically immortal..."

Theoretically...



Anyways, it looks like you know your thing, have you been doing some research on the topic? Are you planning something?. If you find something please don't forget about me only because I didn't agree with you at the beginning.

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Posted 4/27/17

anfex wrote:


You: "There are multiple types of immortality that is fact."
Me: Hmm, okay I guess... is fact that there are multiple types of something fictitious...



You: "Also Immortality isn't fictitious there are immortal animals such as certain species of jellyfish."
Me: Holy crap, is that real?. I'll admit it, you got my interest here.



And then I search for it, and what I found is this:
"...It does this through the cell development process of transdifferentiation, which alters the differentiated state of the cells and transforms them into new types of cells. Theoretically, this process can go on indefinitely, effectively rendering the jellyfish biologically immortal..."

Theoretically...



Anyways, it looks like you know your thing, have you been doing some research on the topic? Are you planning something?. If you find something please don't forget about me only because I didn't agree with you at the beginning.





I have been my life goal is human life advancement and going towards a form of immortality (biological) farfetched but its been my goal as a kid
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Posted 4/27/17

qualeshia3 wrote:


dragonlord1234 wrote:


qualeshia3 wrote:


dragonlord1234 wrote:

i've always consider immortal to generally mean ether you can't die or it would be very hard for you to die not simply for example elves are often called immortal but most only have longer life spans then humans but usually can die jsut as easily by for example stabbed falling maybe a bit more resistant to disease or poison but usually not immune i would call what elves have close to eternal youth or something then immortal assuming they don't have a set life span like for example most types only live on average at most a few hundred years rarely going past 1000 though some don't have a set life span then they might be able to claim to have eternal youth or something


So what do you consider someone like Ivan?


hmm well can he die like if he tripped and fell off a cliff or someone random person stabbed him with a regular knife or such if he can no if he can't possibly though it might be more accurate to call him a demi immortal or something. i normally think for example a being like a deity is a true immortal in that they can't die from age or other natural means and the only thing that could would be another deity or with the aid of a deity.


Well, Ivan is based off a design for a race from a novel that I am working on. They can get injured or even killed unless they are saved by their own superpowers.


then i wouldn't call them immortal perhaps saying something along the line of saying they have a tenacious body or something normally they can survive most things though they can still be killed by ordinary means but its a rarer occurrence but they have timer in that once they reach a certain age they drop dead then a their is what it seems your getting at. also it depends on how the power works is it like for example rapid healing , a magical barrier that protects against most things most of the time etc
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Posted 4/27/17
You know, the "theoretically" in this case just means that if left alone, the said animal (jellyfish or whatever, I seem to remember there being some crabs and other beasties that also apply) can life forever. However because it's so low on the food-chain, it's very much unlikely that one of them would ever reach an age worth mentioning in the wild.
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Posted 4/27/17

BenteKoini wrote:

You know, the "theoretically" in this case just means that if left alone, the said animal (jellyfish or whatever, I seem to remember there being some crabs and other beasties that also apply) can life forever. However because it's so low on the food-chain, it's very much unlikely that one of them would ever reach an age worth mentioning in the wild.


You may be thinking of lobsters, which aren't affected by aging. However, they aren't immortal.

Lobsters grow indefinitely and have to molt periodically. The problem is that the larger the shell, the more energy is required to molt. So since lobsters grow indefinitely, after reaching a certain age and size, the simple act of molting would require enough energy that the lobster would die of exhaustion. So even if left alone, the lobster would still die.
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