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Post Reply Who Will Pay For The Border Wall?
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31 / M
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Posted 5/1/17
Who paid for the Great Wall of China?
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19 / M / Palm Coast, Florida
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Posted 5/1/17 , edited 5/3/17
China builds a wall to stop invaders = no one cares
Vatican City has a wall = no one cares
US wants a border wall to stop illegals (aka invaders) = oh no, the US is evil!
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21 / M / Oppai Hell
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Posted 5/1/17 , edited 5/1/17

MonoDreams wrote:

China builds a wall to stop invaders = no one cares
Vatican City has a wall = no one cares
US wants a border wall to stop illegals (aka invaders) = oh no, the US is evil!


I was under the impression that both those walls were built centuries ago (Vatican in the 800s, China began building it in the 600s) when the oldest human today was born. Seems a bit late, even going by Cherokee Trail of Tears standard. In any case, if I had to go back, I probably would complain about The Great Wall if anything else. So many people died to build it. In fact, some were buried under the mud and blocks as it was built I believed.

Not that we should not criticize people for putting up poor arguments against the wall or the irrationality of intense hatred against Trump, but I do not think those are legitimate criticisms.

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M / Chattanooga TN
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Posted 5/1/17 , edited 5/7/17
every wall in history has been a temporary measure, Most of them have fallen.

I don't know why we need to pay for a wall when Bullets are much cheaper and a lot more effective at keeping people from trying to cross our borders.
and stop "deporting" captured illegals, just line them up and execute them.. don't even send the bodies home just cremate them here.
they will get the message back home.

Now, that said... I have nothing against people "legally" immigrating to America.

but laws are made for a reason.
and Law Breakers are SUPPOSED to be punished. so if our laws have no "Teeth" behind them..
then they simply become "suggestions"... which is what is going on right now.. and anyone can see how "effective" that has been.

the town of Dalton GA. just south of me, has gone completely bi lingual due to the illegals flooding its factories.
and they will get raided by INS and be deported on Friday and yet they are back at work on Monday.. WTF!?

obviously our "Laws" are not much of a deterrent. so do you think a wall will make any real difference?

People in this country STOPPED following the moral high ground when the death Penalty was taken off the table.

I don't like to believe it, but after having raised two kids, I now know that any punishment used to deter bad behavior, has to really leave a "severe NEGATIVE impression" before young ones will learn anything. only a VERY FEW people will learn from simply being told something is bad for them...
Most people require that severe negative impact before realizing that certain actions produce undesirable results.

and teaching" Adults" anything... is like herding cats.
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Posted 5/1/17
I'm giving you all my attention.
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21 / M / Oppai Hell
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Posted 5/1/17

Mastersluthier wrote:

every wall in history has been a temporary measure, Most of them have fallen.

I don't know why we need to pay for a wall when Bullets are much cheaper and a lot more effective at keeping people from trying to cross our borders.
and stop "deporting" captured illegals, just line them up and execute them.. don't even send the bodies home just cremate them here.
they will get the message back home.

Now, that said... I have nothing against people "legally" immigrating to America.

but laws are made for a reason.
and Law Breakers are SUPPOSED to be punished. so if our laws have no "Teeth" behind them..
then they simply become "suggestions"... which is what is going on right now.. and anyone can see how "effective" that has been.

the town of Dalton GA. just south of me, has gone completely bi lingual due to the illegals flooding its factories.
and they will get raided by INS and be deported on Friday and yet they are back at work on Monday.. WTF!?

obviously our "Laws" are not much of a deterrent. so do you think a wall will make any real difference?

People in this country STOPPED following the moral high ground when the death Penalty was taken off the table.

I don't like to believe it, but after having raised two kids, I now know that any punishment used to deter bad behavior, has to really leave a "severe NEGATIVE impression" before young ones will learn anything. only a VERY FEW people will learn from simply being told something is bad for them...
Most people require that severe negative impact before realizing that certain actions produce undesirable results.

and teaching" Adults" anything... is like herding cats.


That seems to be an excessive application of the ends justify the means. Executions are not a court sentence and a killing on the spot, and I think we should avoid the ever present threat of summary executions when necessary. Sure, one has to uphold the law, but having the medicine be worst than the crime is hardly proportionate or fair, if we are limiting it to just the realm of illegal immigration, and not drug trafficking. I mean, would one execute jaywalkers?

I do not believe the situation is dire enough to execute just everyone who as much as tiptoed over our borders for that specific crime, which in itself has been attributed to economic hardship, but it is hardly a case of anyone starving to death in America.
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19 / F / Germany
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Posted 5/1/17

fredreload wrote:

Who paid for the Great Wall of China?


The common people -- often with their lives. It wouldn't be the same in this scenario because we live in the 21st century, but I see no reason why politicians should feel inclined not to put this burden on the shoulders of the citizens. Besides, imagine all the things that could be paid for with the money that is required for building the wall.
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20 / M / Winnipeg, MB.
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Posted 5/1/17

Nalaniel wrote:


fredreload wrote:

Who paid for the Great Wall of China?


The common people -- often with their lives. It wouldn't be the same in this scenario because we live in the 21st century, but I see no reason why politicians should feel inclined not to put this burden on the shoulders of the citizens. Besides, imagine all the things that could be paid for with the money that is required for building the wall.


I also feel I should point out that not only was that wall erected through means that would not at all fly today but that the construction happened during a time of near constant war, not just with people outside of China but also within it. They didn't just pop a giant monument out of nowhere to keep some randies from hopping the border, they desperately built the wall through numerous sacrifices out of fear for their lives. Actually justified fear too, not just "zomg the mexicans are taking over"
Posted 5/1/17 , edited 5/3/17
Just watch this it made me cry i think often about those that have lost their lives from illegal persons

I happen to live in Cali and yes it really is a issue here those close to the border are most impacted.

> https://youtu.be/jkvsE5Xitrs
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19 / F / Germany
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Posted 5/1/17

octorockandroll wrote:

I also feel I should point out that not only was that wall erected through means that would not at all fly today but that the construction happened during a time of near constant war, not just with people outside of China but also within it. They didn't just pop a giant monument out of nowhere to keep some randies from hopping the border, they desperately built the wall through numerous sacrifices out of fear for their lives. Actually justified fear too, not just "zomg the mexicans are taking over"


That is correct. From a strategic standpoint, the Great Wall was very effective at keeping enemies outside. I question the efficiency of the wall that Trump proposes to build, but even if we assume that it will fulfill its purpose, maintenance and border personnel require a decent amount of money. I doubt it would be worth the cost. I said if, but there are different means which people can use to enter the US illegally.

I found an interesting article on the topic. It says that threats of tighter border security measures does deter people from entering illegally, but only for a short period of time. They pointed out the similarities between Reagan's early promises and Trump's current goals. Note that the main point of the article is that the illegal immigration rate slightly dropped since Trump took office, but I found the part below relevant to our conversation.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/08/us/trump-immigration-border.html


Mark Krikorian, executive director of the Center for Immigration Studies, a Washington-based group that favors more limits on immigration, said all signs pointed to a decline in migration similar to that seen after the Reagan administration’s sweeping immigration reform law of 1986. It gave amnesty to many immigrants who had entered the United States before 1982, while promising tighter security at the Mexican border and tough penalties for companies hiring undocumented workers.

“The talk of tougher enforcement can, in fact, lead to reductions in the flow, but only for a short period of time if the words aren’t backed up with action,” Mr. Krikorian said. During the Reagan years, he said, “the promises of tougher enforcement didn’t exactly pan out.”
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31 / M
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Posted 5/1/17

MonoDreams wrote:

China builds a wall to stop invaders = no one cares
Vatican City has a wall = no one cares
US wants a border wall to stop illegals (aka invaders) = oh no, the US is evil!


I can just imagine some Chinese emperor telling his slave labor, "We're going to build a wall, and we're going to make the Mongols pay for it!"
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16 / Texas
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Posted 5/1/17
Dip it in gold and make mexico pay for it all
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16 / Texas
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Posted 5/1/17
grinding for cr points
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40 / M / right here!
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Posted 5/1/17
American taxpayers will
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27 / M / Your friendly nei...
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Posted 5/1/17 , edited 5/3/17
make the canadians do it, they need to be useful for once.
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