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Post Reply Free Speech and Higher Education
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30 / M / Atlanta, GA, USA
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Posted 5/2/17

octorockandroll wrote:
You may want to rethink that whole "lack of logical thinking" crap since you're saying that having someone's actions not be controlled is the same as controlling their actions.

I would also suggest maybe not advocating for the killing of people you don't like if you want to be taken seriously when discussing civil rights and freedoms. Oh and it probably breaks a few of the forum rules as well.


I doubt it's against forum rules to suggest that masked criminals should be killed by law enforcement agents, but I welcome any discussion with a moderator. Antifas should definitely be killed if we're being reasonable and protecting civil rights and freedoms, though. There's no case where masking up and attacking citizens shouldn't be retaliated against.

I'm not sure why this is a difficult concept for you to grasp, but the state is either controlling your actions when you want to do something, or it's controlling the actions of others who want to stop you. The state would have to stand down completely and permit anarchy in order to not control anyone's actions.
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Posted 5/2/17

Paradise_ wrote:

I wasn't sure if the Mods would like it/allow me to use it. I guess I mostly asked because it's not a word I use a lot because of what it means.


I'm sure that if you use any word in the right context that you should be fine with the Mods.

:/
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Posted 5/2/17

slendercookieman wrote:


Paradise_ wrote:

I wasn't sure if the Mods would like it/allow me to use it. I guess I mostly asked because it's not a word I use a lot because of what it means.


I'm sure that if you use any word in the right context that you should be fine with the Mods.

:/


True, I just wanted to be sure, thanks.
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Posted 5/2/17

Paradise_ wrote:

True, I just wanted to be sure, thanks.


No problem
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27 / F / In the Mountains
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Posted 5/2/17
You want try something awesome walk down the street in LA, Chicago, or New York with a I love President Trump T-shirt and see what happens. So much for free speech???? Don't even get me started if I told anyone in my college classes I voted for President Trump what would happen. I would be doing my lab work by myself or with the military guy in the corner.
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Posted 5/2/17
The problem with a healthy democracy is that it requires a discourse amongst opposing views. Theocracy and tyranny only allows one view.

In every authoritarian government in history, the first thing the tyrants do is restrict the ability of the opposition to broadcast the opposition message. The Stamp Tax of George III was a major reason for the Revolution. So it's rather an odd twist, that the left, who shouted on campuses in the ‘60’s for free speech and the right to voice opinions, sometimes violently, no matter how controversial, now insist that anyone who doesn’t think like they do, should just shut up.

It must be really great to be a member of a "victim group". Once you have established membership nothing you do or say, no matter how offensive, can be held against you. If you fail it's not your fault. It's because others have held you back either consciously or subconsciously. If you succeed you did it on your own and overcame tremendous odds, discrimination and oppression to reach your goals.
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Posted 5/2/17 , edited 5/2/17

Shinosushi wrote:

You want try something awesome walk down the street in LA, Chicago, or New York with a I love President Trump T-shirt and see what happens. So much for free speech???? Don't even get me started if I told anyone in my college classes I voted for President Trump what would happen. I would be doing my lab work by myself or with the military guy in the corner.


You may want to rephrase that post. The way it is now makes it sound kind of like you consider other people in your class not liking you as an infringement on your free speech.
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Posted 5/2/17 , edited 5/2/17

descloud wrote:

It's funny you are pro-life but are totally against the idea of anyone hindering free speech.

They stem from the same concept, you want to control someone else's decisions.


I want to slice open a dog right now.

Actually, slice open a dog and a cat..... and a kid.

What? Someone wants to "control my decisions"?

C'mon........... you're casting the net WAY too wide there..............
Posted 5/2/17

KennethKenstar wrote:


As far as the actual focus of the topic is, I have no clue what to think honestly. On the one hand, my knee jerk reaction is to actually READ THE FIRST AMENDMENT WHERE IT GUARANTEES PROTECTIONS FROM THE GOVERNMENT AND NOT DORKY COLLEGE KIDS WITH PINK HAIR

I mean, I'm not going to waste my time defending every shitlord out there that has some dumb thing to say. He's welcome to say it not on a college campus. In fact, even if somehow the First Amendment guaranteed protection from pink-haired college kids WHICH IT DOESN'T I don't really think the First Amendment says that I'm protected from speech on a college campus. I don't understand where people get the idea that we can say whatever we want on a campus.

Regardless, to me, it's more bullshit because the FIRST AMENDMENT GUARANTEES PROTECTIONS FROM THE GOVERNMENT AND NOT DORKY COLLEGE KIDS WITH PINK HAIR

The colleges that receive federal funding and refuse to host speakers or discriminate against them due to the possibility of antifa showing up to cause trouble are actually violating the 1st Amendment.
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20 / M / Winnipeg, MB.
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Posted 5/2/17

Amyas_Leigh wrote:


KennethKenstar wrote:


As far as the actual focus of the topic is, I have no clue what to think honestly. On the one hand, my knee jerk reaction is to actually READ THE FIRST AMENDMENT WHERE IT GUARANTEES PROTECTIONS FROM THE GOVERNMENT AND NOT DORKY COLLEGE KIDS WITH PINK HAIR

I mean, I'm not going to waste my time defending every shitlord out there that has some dumb thing to say. He's welcome to say it not on a college campus. In fact, even if somehow the First Amendment guaranteed protection from pink-haired college kids WHICH IT DOESN'T I don't really think the First Amendment says that I'm protected from speech on a college campus. I don't understand where people get the idea that we can say whatever we want on a campus.

Regardless, to me, it's more bullshit because the FIRST AMENDMENT GUARANTEES PROTECTIONS FROM THE GOVERNMENT AND NOT DORKY COLLEGE KIDS WITH PINK HAIR

The colleges that receive federal funding and refuse to host speakers or discriminate against them due to the possibility of antifa showing up to cause trouble are actually violating the 1st Amendment.


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discrimination

Happy reading. You need it.
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Posted 5/2/17

nanikore2 wrote:


descloud wrote:

It's funny you are pro-life but are totally against the idea of anyone hindering free speech.

They stem from the same concept, you want to control someone else's decisions.


I want to slice open a dog right now.

Actually, slice open a dog and a cat..... and a kid.

What? Someone wants to "control my decisions"?

C'mon........... you're casting the net WAY too wide there..............


All you did is exaggerate the point I made.
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32 / M / TN
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Posted 5/2/17 , edited 5/2/17

Kavalion wrote:

I doubt it's against forum rules to suggest that masked criminals should be killed by law enforcement agents, but I welcome any discussion with a moderator. Antifas should definitely be killed if we're being reasonable and protecting civil rights and freedoms, though. There's no case where masking up and attacking citizens shouldn't be retaliated against.

I'm not sure why this is a difficult concept for you to grasp, but the state is either controlling your actions when you want to do something, or it's controlling the actions of others who want to stop you. The state would have to stand down completely and permit anarchy in order to not control anyone's actions.


Last I checked Antifas weren't attacking law enforcement, and law enforcement (the noncorrupt kind anyway) don't retaliate on a group's behalf. And any civilian going out specifically to provoke a violent confrontation can and should be found culpable under the law, be they Antifa, pro-Trump, or anti-Trump.


DengekiFugu wrote:

The problem with a healthy democracy is that it requires a discourse amongst opposing views. Theocracy and tyranny only allows one view.

In every authoritarian government in history, the first thing the tyrants do is restrict the ability of the opposition to broadcast the opposition message. The Stamp Tax of George III was a major reason for the Revolution. So it's rather an odd twist, that the left, who shouted on campuses in the ‘60’s for free speech and the right to voice opinions, sometimes violently, no matter how controversial, now insist that anyone who doesn’t think like they do, should just shut up.

It must be really great to be a member of a "victim group". Once you have established membership nothing you do or say, no matter how offensive, can be held against you. If you fail it's not your fault. It's because others have held you back either consciously or subconsciously. If you succeed you did it on your own and overcame tremendous odds, discrimination and oppression to reach your goals.


So Universities are now the Government, and a speaker being invited to speak is the new cultural revolution of racial equality, sexual revolution, and breaking of entrenched laws of segregation and penalization for same sex relations. Must be difficult being unfairly harassed by campus police for the crime of being conservative.
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Posted 5/2/17

descloud wrote:


nanikore2 wrote:


descloud wrote:

It's funny you are pro-life but are totally against the idea of anyone hindering free speech.

They stem from the same concept, you want to control someone else's decisions.


I want to slice open a dog right now.

Actually, slice open a dog and a cat..... and a kid.

What? Someone wants to "control my decisions"?

C'mon........... you're casting the net WAY too wide there..............


All you did is exaggerate the point I made.


He's saying there are laws control people's behavior already because it protects the lives of dogs and cats and kids.

Anyway that's not what the topic is about. It's about free speech.

A common tactic is to get your opponent to shut up. Either through fear or shame. When a group on the forums argued for the the sexual molestation of children people would gladly join a chorus in condemning such talk as unacceptable. Needless to say some speech is more tolerated than others but in a college setting if someone wanted to argue for lowering the age of consent there would have to be a proper debate. The same disgust will be felt by those opposed to it I'm sure but that is the place to have a discussion where all sides can express their ideas and rationale.
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32 / M / North Dakota
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Posted 5/2/17 , edited 5/2/17
I have a natural reaction where I lose all interest in even trying to change someone's view on something the moment they shut me down or disregard my side because of their credentials, whether that be degrees or professions... doesn't really matter. The fact that they make SUCH a big deal out of protecting your rights in colleges these days - but professors have time and time again shown zero tolerance for an opposing point of view... hypocrisy makes me sick to my stomach, especially when it's accepted by so many of those around them. I used to want to go to college, for what I was never really sure, but seeing the state that so many are in (even our local college here - safe spaces and all that) I just don't think it's on my list anymore.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for learning. I would die if I couldn't research things on-demand, but the whole holier-than-thou thing gets on my nerves. ...but it's more than that. There's an epidemic of people in authoritative positions who are such hypocrites that it astound me they can have any position of authority at all. It astounds me when such people hold jobs period, but because they received a little too much support somewhere along the way they let it go to their heads.

The reason it happens is because opposing points of view remind them that they aren't as all-knowing as they like to think they are, and it scares them...because discussion is scary when you don't know what you're talking about. Sometimes big words aren't enough... that's my theory. They get very defensive at the mere mention of anything they deem conservative, even if it's not actually a conservative view. They're afraid to hear it, and they're afraid of those around them hearing it, because they instinctively know that it MAY just turn favor away from them and they, more often than not, can't back up their opinion... or can only do so superficially, when they're supported by a mob.

So, they don't let people who don't think the same speak. I guess I've been around people like that my entire life, but most of those people aren't doing too well - little did I know that some of them are college students / professors.

I think it also has to do with the fact that they want more federal money for their agendas and the conservative take is that this money could be put to better use in various ways. I'm not really going to state my opinion on that one except to say that I do value education and I think it's very important - but something isn't working, because this is a LITERAL EPIDEMIC and if the system was working the way it was supposed to ... it wouldn't be THIS.
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