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Post Reply U.S. House of Representatives Passes Obamacare repeal bill
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Posted 5/4/17

qwueri wrote:

It's a fight that's just begun. They rammed the bill through with the expectation that the Senate will heavily amend it and kick it back to the House. Pretty telling when they're in such a rush to push it through before estimates could accurately be made on how the bill would affect Americans.


Could be worse.



...They could have passed it before anyone had actually read it.
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Posted 5/4/17

Kavalion wrote:

Both the Democrats and the Republicans are pretty bad when it comes to healthcare. Too scared/corrupt to kill the for-profit insurance companies.

One issue is that Trump listens to other people too much. He knew insurance was shit and that places like Scotland have a decent national health service, but this has become just one more issue where people tell him it won't work, or that he doesn't have the power to implement it, so he's just pushing whatever instead.

I'm hoping midterms won't be based purely on partisanship like people are anticipating. We'll never get anywhere with that.


Agreed, and it may hearten you to know that people have been storming Democratic town halls with demands for reforms and threatening primary challenges if they should refuse or drag their feet. People are starting to gain a recollection that it was Democrats working against proposals for single-payer and drug price negotiation, and they're responding to that. There's hope yet that the midterms won't be so partisan after all. Or, at least not in the more typical sense of US partisanship. One side of the aisle may soon be taking on a very different sort of character.
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Posted 5/4/17

ninjitsuko wrote:


BlueOni wrote:

Uh-huh. And now Democrats facing off against vulnerable House Republicans have one hell of a bombshell to use against them. Especially if this gets all the way through and the CBO's projections come to pass. I've never seen someone so enthusiastic to dig their own grave, but hey, when in Rome.


Pretty much, this. It's amazing how the Republicans are trying to shoot themselves in the foot just to make sure that one of their promises are met, despite how badly it'll impact citizens (unbeknownst to most of them). The "potential pre-conditions" (such as rape, domestic abuse, etc) are going to need filtering out at the Senate level if they (Republicans) are hoping to survive their re-election campaigns (we're already seeing a minor amount of resistance in Georgia that prompted a normally easy win for GOP being challenged enough to force a special election) coming up.

Them pushing through a bill at this speed is no different than when ACA was first formed. GOP will find that the weapon they used to get elected is going to be the same weapon used against them when mid-term elections come up this year and next.


Obamacare was, and remains, an expensive, ineffective boondoggle that burdens the taxpayer while not addressing the root cause of the healthcare cost problems.

Want to bring down the cost of healthcare? Bring down the cost of medical insurance. Want to bring down to cost of medical insurance? Enact reform of malpractice litigation by throwing out frivolous lawsuits and requiring weight of evidence to prove gross negligence or intent to cause harm.

Right now the citizen pays the insurance company three times every time they receive medical care: once for their own insurance, whose rates are raised to afford increased doctor's fees, then AGAIN by the doctor for malpractice insurance, which is price-jacked and forces them to raise their rates to stay financially solvent, then AGAIN by the pharmaceutical companies, who, like the doctors, have to pay through the nose to maintain insurance coverage on their products.

It wouldn't hurt to have federal mandates on profit margins or production cost vs sale cost ratios of pharmaceuticals, either.

But laws that just ENFORCE citizens paying extortionate fees to insurance and pharmaceutical companies? Yeah, that *totally* solves the healthcare crisis, amirite?
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Posted 5/4/17

outontheop wrote:
Obamacare was, and remains, an expensive, ineffective boondoggle that burdens the taxpayer while not addressing the root cause of the healthcare cost problems.


Well, the root cause is the inability to use the same system as every other western democracy on the planet because you're convinced it's Communism. Until you can collectively get over that things like ACA are the best you can hope form in terms of healthcare reform.

You're certainly not going to get any improvements from a political party that doesn't even understand what insurance is in the first place.


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Posted 5/4/17 , edited 5/4/17

outontheop wrote:
Obamacare was, and remains, an expensive, ineffective boondoggle that burdens the taxpayer while not addressing the root cause of the healthcare cost problems.

Want to bring down the cost of healthcare? Bring down the cost of medical insurance. Want to bring down to cost of medical insurance? Enact reform of malpractice litigation by throwing out frivolous lawsuits and requiring weight of evidence to prove gross negligence or intent to cause harm.

Right now the citizen pays the insurance company three times every time they receive medical care: once for their own insurance, whose rates are raised to afford increased doctor's fees, then AGAIN by the doctor for malpractice insurance, which is price-jacked and forces them to raise their rates to stay financially solvent, then AGAIN by the pharmaceutical companies, who, like the doctors, have to pay through the nose to maintain insurance coverage on their products.

It wouldn't hurt to have federal mandates on profit margins or production cost vs sale cost ratios of pharmaceuticals, either.

But laws that just ENFORCE citizens paying extortionate fees to insurance and pharmaceutical companies? Yeah, that *totally* solves the healthcare crisis, amirite?


The form Obamacare took was due to the failure of previous health reforms, which didn't pass because they attempted to change too much too fast. The voters didn't go for it in 1994.
https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/3/15/14908524/obamacare-lessons-ahca-gop

For reformers of all ideologies and all approaches, this is the hardest fact of health reform: We aren’t starting from scratch. Any system you build needs to be a compromise with the system we have — a system that provides insurance to more than nine in 10 Americans, a system that employers know how to navigate, a system the medical care industry has designed itself around.

In 2008, one of us (Ezra) set out to re-report the failure of Bill Clinton’s 1994 health reforms. After interviewing dozens of participants and reading thousands of pages on the effort, the core mistake seemed clear: The Clinton administration had tried to change too much, too fast. Its bill would have taken the system we had and replaced it with something completely new. Americans are protective of their health insurance and mistrustful of the government.

Jacob Hacker, a Yale political scientist who wrote his dissertation on the Clinton administration’s failed effort, distills the problem well. "When it comes to health care, it's one thing to make the system better,” he says. “It's a whole other to remake it entirely. You can ask Americans to walk forward, slowly, knowing they can scramble back to the ledge if need be. You cannot ask them to jump.”

Fifteen years later, the Obama administration launched its effort with the lessons of the Clinton reforms in mind. Its political lead, Chief of Staff Rahm Emanuel, had been around for the 1994 disaster and hadn’t forgotten a moment of it. The Obama White House resolved to do things differently this time.
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Posted 5/4/17

runec wrote:
Well, the root cause is the inability to use the same system as every other western democracy on the planet because you're convinced it's Communism.


That's not accurate, my problem is how do illegals fit into the equation. America has more illegal aliens than some countries have citizens.
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Posted 5/4/17

BlueOni wrote:
Agreed, and it may hearten you to know that people have been storming Democratic town halls with demands for reforms and threatening primary challenges if they should refuse or drag their feet. People are starting to gain a recollection that it was Democrats working against proposals for single-payer and drug price negotiation, and they're responding to that. There's hope yet that the midterms won't be so partisan after all. Or, at least not in the more typical sense of US partisanship. One side of the aisle may soon be taking on a very different sort of character.


I wonder when they will gain a recollection that Trump used to be a Democrat and so did a lot of his voters.

It will be seriously bad for the country if "resist" is the rhetoric being used and we're stuck with a bunch of weak half-measures as a result of politicians with no vision simply opposing things to keep a confused base happy.

Anyway, hopefully we don't go the way of Venezuela.
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Posted 5/4/17 , edited 5/4/17
The latest evidence of Obamacare's implosion comes from its stunning collapse in the state of Iowa in just a matter of a few weeks. Early last month, 2 of Iowa's 3 remaining healthcare providers, Aetna and Wellmark, announced they would not participate in the state's exchange in 2018. Per Bloomberg:



“Earlier today we informed the appropriate federal and state regulators that Aetna will not participate in the Iowa individual public exchange for 2018 as a result of financial risk and an uncertain outlook for the marketplace,” Aetna spokesman T.J. Crawford said in an email. “We are still evaluating Aetna’s 2018 individual product presence in our remaining states.”

On Monday, Wellmark Inc. said it planned to give up on the Iowa Obamacare market in 2018. Wellmark is one of the state’s largest insurers.




Those decisions left the overwhelming majority of Iowans with just one insurance option for 2018, Medica. That is, until today when Medica also announced that, "due to instability in the market," they too would likely have to pull out of Iowa in 2018. Per the Des Moines Register:



Medica, a Minnesota based health insurer, released a statement suggesting it was close to following two larger carriers in deciding not to sell such policies in Iowa for 2018, due to instability in the market.

“Without swift action by the state or Congress to provide stability to Iowa’s individual insurance market, Medica will not be able to serve the citizens of Iowa in the manner and breadth that we do today. We are examining the potential of limited offerings, but our ability to stay in the Iowa insurance market in any capacity is in question at this point,” the company’s statement said.


Medica's exit is expected to leave roughly 70,000 Iowans without a single option to purchase a personal health insurance policy in 2018, even if they wanted to. Unless a replacement carrier is found, the change also means moderate-income Iowans in most counties will not be able to use Affordable Care Act subsidies to help pay premiums for private insurance.

Medica is a relatively small carrier, which faced a daunting prospect in Iowa after Aetna and Wellmark announced they would no longer sell individual health insurance plans there. The two large carriers announced they had lost tens of millions of dollars in Iowa, largely because they covered too many older Iowans with chronic health problems and not enough young, healthy people. If Medica remains in the market, it would face the prospect of shouldering all of that risk by itself.

Of course, all of this should come as little surprise to our readers as we've been writing for years that the entire Obamacare system was on the "verge of collapse" as premiums were soaring, risk pools were deteriorating and insurers were pulling out of exchanges all around the country leaving many Americans with just a single 'option' for health insurance (see "Obamacare On "Verge Of Collapse" As Premiums Set To Soar Again In 2017"). In fact, the following charts provide a stunning illustration of that collapse (charts per Bloomberg):



Unfortunately, things are likely to get even worse in 2018, even if Trump leaves subsidies in place. Humana has already announced they won't offer marketplace plans in 2018, a move which will result in 1,000s of people in Tennessee not having a single health insurance option starting 1/1/18.



Meanwhile, Anthem has also signaled they may exit all exchanges next year as well which would leave another 250,000 consumers with no health insurance options.



http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-05-03/obamacare-implosion-iowa-wont-have-healthcare-access-2018-last-major-provider-pulls-
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Posted 5/4/17

Rujikin wrote:



So your saying that retired doctors who were in the field for 30+ years are all wrong? The people I am talking about are people that were doctors in the 70's and before. Before all this insurance shit. They say the exact same thing as being the issue.


Well considering my dad is 75 and was in practice here in the USA since 1968, I'd say it applies to them too.
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Posted 5/4/17 , edited 5/4/17


And removing $600 billion from health care to finance tax cuts, like the AHCA, helps how?
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Posted 5/4/17

mittemeyer wrote:



And removing $600 billion from health care to finance tax cuts, like the AHCA, helps how?


Put that $600B into infrastructure and our economy will jump. Reform the tax code and all businesses will thrive, not just ones with all the tax breaks.
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Posted 5/4/17 , edited 5/4/17

Rujikin wrote:

Put that $600B into infrastructure and our economy will jump. Reform the tax code and all businesses will thrive, not just ones with all the tax breaks.


What about the $1500 per person increase in deductibles? How is that fulfilling Donald Trump's promise for better health care?

Also, I'm not sure if you understand what "tax cut" means.

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/3/7/14844362/ahca-ryancare-trumpcare-tax-cut-rich


The main answer, for Republicans is Congress, is that it also contains $600 billion in tax cuts — tax cuts that would save the wealthiest 0.1 percent of Americans nearly $200,000 each in a single year, according to a batch of analyses released by the Joint Committee on Taxation on Tuesday.
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Posted 5/4/17

Kavalion wrote:

I wonder when they will gain a recollection that Trump used to be a Democrat and so did a lot of his voters.

It will be seriously bad for the country if "resist" is the rhetoric being used and we're stuck with a bunch of weak half-measures as a result of politicians with no vision simply opposing things to keep a confused base happy.

Anyway, hopefully we don't go the way of Venezuela.


For what it's worth, my understanding is that the forces that want the US to shift left are inspired more by Franklin Roosevelt and the New Deal than the Bolivarian Revolution, and even among those that prefer expansion of cooperative enterprise there is (to my eye, anyway) a substantially less authoritarian revolutionary streak. We're talking about social democrats, mostly. They just call themselves democratic socialists because of where the USA's Overton Window currently lies.
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Posted 5/4/17
The final bill needs to rein in the lawyers and enact tort reform. Absurdly expensive suits and defensive medicine are parts of the real problem.

And until the pre-existing conditions are no longer called health insurance it will be difficult to solve the problems. They have to be treated as a separate entity. Put as many of those people in a government funded pool, thereby removing them from the insurance pools. They need help paying their bills not help with health insurance. That will cost money buy not near as much as having them figured in the insurance pools and driving cost for everyone thru the roof. (that is what Obamacare did).

I would rather pay $200 to $300 additional a year in taxes if necessary as opposed to having my premiums go up $400 to $500 a month.

I understand it is an entitlement but there is no other solution that is realistic or feasible.
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