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Post Reply Netflix censors episode of Bill Nye the Science Guy
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Posted 5/5/17

qwueri wrote:

If the segment was purely about biological sex I don't see the point in arguing about gender at all. If it was conflating sex and gender, I don't see the point in getting flustered over it getting edited out to avoid confusion with contemporary understandings of the two. Unless the segment significantly impacted the rest of the episode's understanding on the topic. Would probably be better annotated rather than cut, but so long as the educational value isn't impacted it doesn't seem worth fussing over.


The Segment's removal is worth raising a fuss over because it shows that people are willing to cut out an educational segment that says you have a 50/50 chance of being born a Boy/Girl because of how Chromosomes work just because it can be arbitrarily read as saying there are only 2 genders and that doesn't fit there modern Social and Political Narrative and not because it's more like a 49.9/49.9 chance because of deformities which was known at the time of the recording of the episode.
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Posted 5/5/17

Granitefish wrote:


qwueri wrote:

If the segment was purely about biological sex I don't see the point in arguing about gender at all. If it was conflating sex and gender, I don't see the point in getting flustered over it getting edited out to avoid confusion with contemporary understandings of the two. Unless the segment significantly impacted the rest of the episode's understanding on the topic. Would probably be better annotated rather than cut, but so long as the educational value isn't impacted it doesn't seem worth fussing over.


The Segment's removal is worth raising a fuss over because it shows that people are willing to cut out an educational segment that says you have a 50/50 chance of being born a Boy/Girl because of how Chromosomes work just because it can be arbitrarily read as saying there are only 2 genders and that doesn't fit there modern Social and Political Narrative and not because it's more like a 49.9/49.9 chance because of deformities which was known at the time of the recording of the episode.


I agree, the censorship of an otherwise factually accurate episode it seems does raise concerns, regardless of the legal rights Netflix or Bill Nye exercises. We should of course attempt to put shows like Dr. Oz or Dr. Phil into context due to their science being just a "bit" too far off base, but I find this self application to the original Bill Nye show wholly unnecessary in the face of the evidence. I mean, that episode only explained a basic concept, first and foremost because it was for kids in the first place.

With simplicity, you are either mostly wrong or mostly right, because there are less claims to disprove.
qwueri 
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Posted 5/5/17 , edited 5/6/17

Granitefish wrote:

The Segment's removal is worth raising a fuss over because it shows that people are willing to cut out an educational segment that says you have a 50/50 chance of being born a Boy/Girl because of how Chromosomes work just because it can be arbitrarily read as saying there are only 2 genders and that doesn't fit there modern Social and Political Narrative and not because it's more like a 49.9/49.9 chance because of deformities which was known at the time of the recording of the episode.


Considering the confusion it can cause to conflate gender and sex in a modern setting, I don't think the reading is arbitrary. Particularly not for any cross-disciplinary efforts between biologists and sociologists. If a lesson could wind up being confusing due to expanded understanding, that lesson is due clarification.
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Posted 5/5/17

Amyas_Leigh wrote:


ranran-001 wrote:



The invention of vaccines for small pox was done on children, it was highly unethical, and in modern times illegal.


So why is crap like what Nye is pushing legal? That children are old enough to decide they are the opposite gender and be given hormone blockers and sex reassignment because they or their parents feel like it, how is that legal?
Apparently you think what Money did was awful and unethical like most sane people should, so why support his crackpot ideas in "modern times"?


Of course children should be allowed to make decisions about their own bodies, this includes what they want to wear, and even medical treatment. Whatever that person you linked, is not the same, that is a case of an adult and the parents agreeing to force something on a child without the child's consent.

Its still normal to circumcise males in this country, and that is another example of a procedure, that is not medically necessary, with a built in cultural bias being forced on children without their consent.
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Posted 5/5/17

qwueri wrote:

Considering the confusion it can cause to conflate gender and sex in a modern setting, I don't think the reading is arbitrary. Particularly not for any cross-disciplinary efforts between biologists and sociologists. If a lesson could wind up being confusing due to expanded understanding, that lesson is due clarification.


Are you saying that any reference to Biological Sex being Boy/Girl Male/Female should not be put anywhere? Because both forms are used for Gender. And if so what terms would you prefer be used for Biological Sex instead of the Terms that have been used for many years in the Hard Science of Biology but have recently been appropriated by a movement that once again is not a group of sociologists but would be studied by the Soft Science of Sociology.
Sociologists would study the change of the term in modern Society and why it happened. They aren't the ones who have enacted the Change.
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Posted 5/5/17

Amyas_Leigh wrote:


ranran-001 wrote:



The invention of vaccines for small pox was done on children, it was highly unethical, and in modern times illegal.


So why is crap like what Nye is pushing legal? That children are old enough to decide they are the opposite gender and be given hormone blockers and sex reassignment because they or their parents feel like it, how is that legal?
Apparently you think what Money did was awful and unethical like most sane people should, so why support his crackpot ideas in "modern times"?


1) It's the kids choice.
2) The victim in that story statically was probably cisgender. and thus put into the position of a transgender child by the surgery.
3) Out side of the experiment itself, they were sexually abused.

There's a huge difference between taking an infant that wasn't even asked, surgically altering their body in a way that more likely than not miss matched them, along with forcing them to role play sexual acts with their siblings, vs asking a child what they identify as and giving the ability to make their body match up.

Is 3 too young, to risk that they're wrong when weighed up against the costs if they're right? I would agree.
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Posted 5/5/17

Granitefish wrote:

Are you saying that any reference to Biological Sex being Boy/Girl Male/Female should not be put anywhere? Because both forms are used for Gender. And if so what terms would you prefer be used for Biological Sex instead of the Terms that have been used for many years in the Hard Science of Biology but have recently been appropriated by a movement that once again is not a group of sociologists but would be studied by the Soft Science of Sociology.
Sociologists would study the change of the term in modern Society and why it happened. They aren't the ones who have enacted the Change.


Nope, I am not suggesting that terms should be scrubbed. Though I can't say I recall seeing "boy/girl" "man/woman" instead of "male/female" in terms of biology.
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Posted 5/5/17
Bill Nye is silly : P
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Posted 5/5/17

Ashliet wrote:


Cavemantero wrote:

He's a hack anyways. The only thing the guy said that was ever right was that we can't go to the moon. Newtonian physics is a religion driven by Babylonian/Egyptian heliocentrism. The last true physicist was Tesla.


The only thing? He also told all these idiots that the Earth isn't flat.



And if you did any kind of scientific research on the flat earth or even experimented...hell...even just OBSERVED it yourself you would see that he is completely wrong on that as well. But no....just learn what you were taught in school and say what they have told you over and over on TV....
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Posted 5/5/17 , edited 5/7/17

Cavemantero wrote:


Ashliet wrote:


Cavemantero wrote:

He's a hack anyways. The only thing the guy said that was ever right was that we can't go to the moon. Newtonian physics is a religion driven by Babylonian/Egyptian heliocentrism. The last true physicist was Tesla.


The only thing? He also told all these idiots that the Earth isn't flat.



And if you did any kind of scientific research on the flat earth or even experimented...hell...even just OBSERVED it yourself you would see that he is completely wrong on that as well. But no....just learn what you were taught in school and say what they have told you over and over on TV....


You're either a moron that thinks the earth is flat or a bad troll.
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Posted 5/5/17
Not sure how Earth is flat. We are in a THREE dimensional space, with the 4th being time, but besides that, what would flat even mean? A cube, a saucer shape, etc, hardly seems like the probable combination of space rocks, nor does it adequately reflect time differences from opposite sides of the world. I mean, how would that even work? Does the Earth flip around on its backside like a coin? Earth certainly does not go beyond the horizon forever. If it is a cube, then what is the likelihood behind a perfect shape? The Earth is not a perfect circle, it is an irregular shape the result of just randomness and stuff.

But....how would a flat earth work exactly?

Posted 5/5/17
Is it me or is Bill Nye getting more stupid by each show or video he does? I can't even respect him or like him anymore even though he's my science class childhood. I'm embarrassed of liking him at one time.
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Posted 5/6/17 , edited 5/6/17
I see a lot of young people not understanding this today. Gender and sex are not the same thing. I cannot say with certainty why the episode was pulled, nor could the silly article you posted. But any thinking person can see that in the 90's we were not having the same conversations or with the same honesty as we are now. It was more taboo to discuss these things.
In the episode Bill was not wrong in what he was saying, but by todays standards it does not give the whole picture, which in science is a problem.
He was saying what makes children either a boy or girl. This is a bit ambiguous and vague now. It would have been fine if he said its what makes you born with a penis or a vegina, biologically male or female.
The whole picture is yes, you are either biologically a male or female, but that is according to your sex. Gender is not biology, it is a socially/culturally constructed set of norms, values, characteristics etc associated with the 2 opposite sexes. (super simplistic, minimalist, stereotypical examples boy=blue, girl=pink, boy=don't cry, girls=cry etc)
Since these norms do not stay static or the exact same they can vary over time, place etc their is a spectrum of variation. They also need not be accepted by the free individual.
No, each spot on the spectrum doesn't need a new name. Thats where most young people get angry at those on the left. The problem is with thinking about all those who would want a special kind of treatment for their new "unicorn" gender or something.
This is obviously silly, but silliness doesn't mean something isn't true. Because you dislike these people or think them stupid does not mean that gender is not fluid and can't change. People can be of one biological sex but identify as another gender. The same way they can be attracted to other same sex etc.
Here is an example. If you look at pleasure and pain as being 2 opposites on a spectrum of feeling you wouldn't say you are either in pain or you are feeling pleasure. Why? Because we know one can find pain pleasurable in various ways, or some may find certain pleasure always accompanied by pain. There exists a fluid range within this spectrum as there is between what is perceived as masculine and feminine qualities.
The point is, you identifying as male or female regardless of sex does not impact anyone else's life in negative or dangerous way. Same way if you or gay or straight doesn't. If you have a problem with gender fluidity it is yours to deal with. You should ask yourself why you care so much? Are you so insecure about yourself you need to police how others wish to live?
Sex is to gender as climate is to weather. People still can't accept climate change because they see snow outside.
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Posted 5/6/17
That is exactly the reason why I don't care about Netflix.
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Posted 5/6/17
probably for the better since it was boring
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Posted 5/6/17

the_warrior_of_ruin wrote:

I see a lot of young people not understanding this today. Gender and sex are not the same thing. I cannot say with certainty why the episode was pulled, nor could the silly article you posted. But any thinking person can see that in the 90's we were not having the same conversations or with the same honesty as we are now. It was more taboo to discuss these things.
In the episode Bill was not wrong in what he was saying, but by todays standards it does not give the whole picture, which in science is a problem.
He was saying what makes children either a boy or girl. This is a bit ambiguous and vague now. It would have been fine if he said its what makes you born with a penis or a vegina, biologically male or female.
The whole picture is yes, you are either biologically a male or female, but that is according to your sex. Gender is not biology, it is a socially/culturally constructed set of norms, values, characteristics etc associated with the 2 opposite sexes. (super simplistic, minimalist, stereotypical examples boy=blue, girl=pink, boy=don't cry, girls=cry etc)
Since these norms do not stay static or the exact same they can vary over time, place etc their is a spectrum of variation. They also need not be accepted by the free individual.
No, each spot on the spectrum doesn't need a new name. Thats where most young people get angry at those on the left. The problem is with thinking about all those who would want a special kind of treatment for their new "unicorn" gender or something.
This is obviously silly, but silliness doesn't mean something isn't true. Because you dislike these people or think them stupid does not mean that gender is not fluid and can't change. People can be of one biological sex but identify as another gender. The same way they can be attracted to other same sex etc.
Here is an example. If you look at pleasure and pain as being 2 opposites on a spectrum of feeling you wouldn't say you are either in pain or you are feeling pleasure. Why? Because we know one can find pain pleasurable in various ways, or some may find certain pleasure always accompanied by pain. There exists a fluid range within this spectrum as there is between what is perceived as masculine and feminine qualities.
The point is, you identifying as male or female regardless of sex does not impact anyone else's life in negative or dangerous way. Same way if you or gay or straight doesn't. If you have a problem with gender fluidity it is yours to deal with. You should ask yourself why you care so much? Are you so insecure about yourself you need to police how others wish to live?
Sex is to gender as climate is to weather. People still can't accept climate change because they see snow outside.


Gender and sex are the same thing. They are quite literally synonyms. The claim that they are not the same is pseudoscience quackery. It's right there with creationism.
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