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Post Reply Having Acne or being Transexual will get you denied health coverage under Trumps new healthcare
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Posted 5/8/17
I'm pretty sure democrats can twist any unfavorable policy enough to make it all about "discrimination".
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Posted 5/8/17

ninjitsuko wrote:


AppleFart wrote:
I think your attitude is very disgusting. Taking from people who work all their lives to pay for the uneducated, unmotivated and/or lazy. Is not right. Read the fable of the grasshopper and the ants. Nobody owes anyone anything.


The reality is that no matter what you do - you're paying for the "uneducated, unmotivated and/or lazy". From my perspective, those who only work 40 hours a week are "lazy" (if I were to be condescending and focus on what I do versus others, I mean). I'm easily pulling 80-95 hour work weeks, not including when I'm having to travel to the head office or when I visit a customer's site. What I mean is - at the end of the day, there's always going to be someone who works more than you that can easily consider you to be "lazy" or "uneducated" (and vice versa).

As for health insurance, I think a single payer/universal healthcare system would be the best bet for America. It's worked in other countries but that's mostly because they're not needlessly spending an extortionate amount of their budget on their military like the United States. To worry about owing another person something just because they're using tax dollars to stay alive (which means that, in the end, they'll benefit the country more than being dead, financially speaking) just seems to be counter-productive. One could argue that they never drive vehicles and that to have to pay taxes that end up going to the state highway commission or that they'll never have children so why are the money they pay into taxes go to schools under the same explanation that you've given as to why you don't want a more unified healthcare system.





Guess i will be lazy for the rest of my life seeing as the job im going for will have me working for 30-40 hours a week haha.
Still paying for them is something i think should be done as a society you should work and help eachother "all for one , one for all" more or less.

People don't want that though because it would cost them and people are well selfish.
it's the world we live in though in the end it doesn't bother me as much if it stays that way as long as healthcare stays a human right where i live in my country.
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Posted 5/8/17

MysteryMiss wrote:

Acne come on just cleanse your skin better and don't dig into your face there are cleanse products out there on market.
and like any health care not every single thing going be covered right,

>example let's say i want to have lipo or cosmetic surgery my coverage not going to cover cosmetic

there is going be some give and takes I see your in Australia, so why you care so much about the states health coverage?


Do i need to be in American to care about things that impact my friends and other human beings.

i care about all countries healthcare systems as everyone deserves affordable healthcare and to not be put into a situation of poverty due to healthcare.

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Posted 5/8/17 , edited 5/8/17

AppleFart wrote:

Good. I don't care as long as my premiums go down. Don't make the 99.5% suffer for the .5%.

Those who die from no insurance can be used as fertilizer to make our forests healthy and strong.



those who have no insurance should still get healthcare that kind of attitude you have is very disgusting.
you should all pitch in to help eachother but it is your country if the majority wanna be stingy and let people who don't have money die then that is what it is.

only those who live there have the power to fight for a better system.
the fact America still uses insurance imo opinion is laughable but to each their own there.


AppleFart wrote:

I'm pretty sure democrats can twist any unfavorable policy enough to make it all about "discrimination".


when your refusing someone for treatment for something they didn't ask for or choose..that isn't unfavorable that is discrimination
1.
the unjust or prejudicial treatment of different categories of people



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Posted 5/8/17
Now the comments magically reappear. I guess this forum is not for discussing anything more edgy than cartoons.
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Posted 5/8/17
Keep in mind our whole healthsystem is completely different. So its much harder for our centralize heathcare to be a sustainable system. You have countless jobs providing healthcare, having pre-existing customers with their own providers, and having some on government subsided systems, and then a brand new centralized system that not even the whole country is a part of.

Its a competitor, and its potentially the lowest cost, option which by default makes it most likely to have the worst options, and coverage.
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Posted 5/8/17 , edited 5/8/17

Ryulightorb wrote:


AppleFart wrote:

Good. I don't care as long as my premiums go down. Don't make the 99.5% suffer for the .5%.

Those who die from no insurance can be used as fertilizer to make our forests healthy and strong.



those who have no insurance should still get healthcare that kind of attitude you have is very disgusting.
you should all pitch in to help eachother but it is your country if the majority wanna be stingy and let people who don't have money die then that is what it is.

only those who live there have the power to fight for a better system.
the fact America still uses insurance imo opinion is laughable but to each their own there.


I think your attitude is very disgusting. Taking from people who work all their lives to pay for the uneducated, unmotivated and/or lazy, Is not right. Read the fable of the grasshopper and the ants. Nobody owes anyone anything.
Posted 5/8/17 , edited 5/8/17

Ryulightorb wrote:
Guess i will be lazy for the rest of my life seeing as the job im going for will have me working for 30-40 hours a week haha.
Still paying for them is something i think should be done as a society you should work and help eachother "all for one , one for all" more or less.


Oh, I fully agree. I was merely stating from an anecdotal perspective that there's always going to be someone who works harder/longer hours and is more educated than the person complaining that they're supporting the "uneducated" or "lazy". It's a subjective perspective on what constitutes laziness/educated and is just a weak opinion.


Ryulightorb wrote:
People don't want that though because it would cost them and people are well selfish.
it's the world we live in though in the end it doesn't bother me as much if it stays that way as long as healthcare stays a human right where i live in my country.


Coming from having lived in England long enough to get a feel for their NHS system - it's mind-boggling to me that people are so fixated on "me, myself, and I" when it could benefit them longer not having to pay anything for their own insurance while just paying their taxes at their current rates. But, alas, that's just a difference in culture. We've (Americans) been taught most of our lives in the last generation or two that we need to make sure we "get ours" by the older generation. It's only natural that some people are sticking to antiquated and out-dated perspectives as such.


AppleFart wrote:

Now the comments magically reappear. I guess this forum is not for discussing anything more edgy than cartoons.


Yeah, I don't even know what's going on with the forums. It's showing signs of someone deleting comments (out of order, random, some are gone) but they're reappearing. So it doesn't appear that anyone's deleting anything but it's likely to be a forum bug/issue with the database?
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Posted 5/8/17

Ryulightorb wrote:

https://www.businessinsider.com.au/what-counts-pre-existing-condition-ahca-trump-obamacare-2017-5?r=US&IR=T

Seriously...how the fuck does that make any sense?
I'm really questioning how fucking stupid this man is.

If this is false and i have seen so many articles and sources to claim this as true and show enough evidence that it is please prove to me it's false because

Faith in humanity declining...
Most of the things in the list of banned things if not all of them should be impacted by healthcare not rejected.


Actually all of it is true the insurance companies and that is what is actually being talked about when we take healthcare I know drives me nuts when I hear someone say healthcare and what they are taking about is insurance. So yes if you had acne you could loose your insurance and there by loose your healthcare. Here is how it used to work mind your this was just 10 years ago so some folks may have forgotten about it.

You get health insurance either through your company or in the private market you fill out the health history form and forget to put down that you had acne as a kid bad acne you have to get antibiotic creams to treat it not uncommon in some cases. Now a few years go by and you get cancer doesn't matter what type of cancer you are going to cost the insurance company money lots of it. So they go through your medical history they can do this since they have access to all your records. They see you had acne that required antibiotics to treat and failed to report it on the history form boom there goes your insurance.

This method of kicking people off insurance was common place before the ACA and insurance companies got really good at finding preexisting condition to kick people off the insurance they had whole departments set up to do this. Unless you lived in a state like Washington you could loose your insurance at the drop of a hat once you became to expensive to cover IE you were cutting into the bottom line.

I know it is totally alien to you being down under but this is what American have put up with for decades. So when someone says healthcare replace it with health insurance and it make more sense. This is what happens when health insurance is for profit.
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Ryulightorb wrote:

I understand that but you need your insurance to get healthcare in America (aside from upfront payment) am i wrong?
I still think its kinda fucked but my understanding as you said may be wrong.


That is true, generally speaking. And yeah, there are issues with it, but it's not a problem that is specific to this new bill.


Ryulightorb wrote:
From my understanding of the insurance system over there from the shit ton of stuff i have read online it makes no sense to me that ones insurance shouldn't cover organ failure for example (pre-existing or not)


That's what I was talking about in my previous comment. You really can't just say insurance doesn't cover organ failure. That depends on the specific policy you have with the company. Like the company, you are also making a bet when deciding to purchase insurance: If I ever have a specific problem, am I likely to be able to pay for it by myself? Am I likely to ever have that problem? Based on your answers to those questions, you might be willing to pay more for more complete coverage, or not. If you feel that the risk of a certain problem is low and you will never need coverage for it, or if you think you will be able to pay for the operation out-of-pocket, you might not be willing to pay the additional fees. If, on the other hand, you think the risk of the problem (either its likelihood or its severity) is high, or you don't think you would be able to pay to fix it on your own, you would likely decide paying more is worth the increased protection.

There are serious issues with the system, but there are issues with pretty much any complex system. One of the big ones here is that a lot of people can't afford the insurance coverage they would like to. It sucks. An argument can be made that it's best to spread the costs around to everyone, so that everyone can have a high degree of coverage in their health insurance, but frankly, that sucks, too. For the most part, we've all got our own priorities, and our own financial issues. No one wants to be told "Hey, I know you're a low-risk insurance customer, but we're going to make you pay more so we can afford to cover this high-risk guy over here for less money," especially if the risks that other guy has are the result of lifestyle choices like smoking, eating large amounts of processed meats (which is something you can't really measure accurately), or other, similar things.


Ryulightorb wrote:
As you said i obviously don't understand but the way to learn these things is reading online and most of the material explaining it is very convoluted and insane and leaves alot to assumption so its hard to not have these misunderstandings like i have.


Meh, don't worry about it. Honestly, I wouldn't be shocked if someone comes along and points out some misconception in my comments here. Either way, all you can do is keep reading.
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Posted 5/8/17

AppleFart wrote:


Ryulightorb wrote:


AppleFart wrote:

Good. I don't care as long as my premiums go down. Don't make the 99.5% suffer for the .5%.

Those who die from no insurance can be used as fertilizer to make our forests healthy and strong.



those who have no insurance should still get healthcare that kind of attitude you have is very disgusting.
you should all pitch in to help eachother but it is your country if the majority wanna be stingy and let people who don't have money die then that is what it is.

only those who live there have the power to fight for a better system.
the fact America still uses insurance imo opinion is laughable but to each their own there.


I think your attitude is very disgusting. Taking from people who work all their lives to pay for the uneducated, unmotivated and/or lazy, Is not right. Read the fable of the grasshopper and the ants. Nobody owes anyone anything.


Do you even understand how insurance works??? Brief lesson on how it works.

Insurance 101.
First: You get a large pool of people together the bigger the pool the better.
Second: All the people pay into the pool to cover the risk be it health, car, home, or business.
Now if someone is damaged and it is covered by the insurance the pool IE everyone helps to cover the damage.

That is how insurance works you distribute the risk and damage over as many people as possible. So that you aren't bankrupted by your car being stolen or your business burning down or your home being robbed your getting cancer. How hard is this to understand that is how insurance has always worked.

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Posted 5/8/17

gvblackmoon wrote:

I know drives me nuts when I hear someone say healthcare and what they are taking about is insurance.


It makes for a lot of misunderstandings, for sure.


gvblackmoon wrote:
Now a few years go by and you get cancer doesn't matter what type of cancer you are going to cost the insurance company money lots of it. So they go through your medical history they can do this since they have access to all your records. They see you had acne that required antibiotics to treat and failed to report it on the history form boom there goes your insurance.


I did wonder about this when I saw the article. Why is prior use of antibiotics to treat acne considered an issue?


gvblackmoon wrote:
So when someone says healthcare replace it with health insurance and it make more sense. This is what happens when health insurance is for profit.

This.
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Posted 5/8/17



gvblackmoon wrote:
Now a few years go by and you get cancer doesn't matter what type of cancer you are going to cost the insurance company money lots of it. So they go through your medical history they can do this since they have access to all your records. They see you had acne that required antibiotics to treat and failed to report it on the history form boom there goes your insurance.


I did wonder about this when I saw the article. Why is prior use of antibiotics to treat acne considered an issue?



I don't think there is a genuine issue with the use, it's more a failed to disclose past usage/coverage.
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Posted 5/8/17 , edited 5/8/17
Try getting auto insurance after you have a few accidents or a couple DUI's, I'm pretty sure those people have to pay a lot extra. Why should a health insurer have to charge someone with heart disease or a history of other severe medical issues the same premium as a healthy person?

I think that the President has said that there will be a high risk pool for pre-existing conditions will be partly subsidized to help out those who need help.

Our current health care system is collapsing and will leave everyone without insurance if it's not fixed. We can do nothing for another 8 years or make some changes. Trump can have his shot. He can't make it any worse at this point.

Hospital emergency rooms will never deny an patient emergency care because they have no insurance. Ever.
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Posted 5/8/17 , edited 5/8/17
Good thing I am not afraid to die as I have been there and done that. It seems Trump is fallowing survival of the fittest and anyone who doesn't match this description is left out to survive on there own. It probably has something to do with the billionaire's agenda and population control the billionaire's are concerned about there survival because of over population.
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Posted 5/8/17

going to the doctors for acne is wasting their time anyway.


I disagree. A little bit of acne is normal for teens and pregnant/postpartum people but there's chronic acne which can be itchy and painful and leave permanent scaring. There's no reason a person should have to live like that when there are treatments. There are also infections and allergic reactions that look like acne so chronic acne really should be checked out to make sure it's just normal acne and not something more serious.

I just wish there was, like, a "lesser" doctor/nurse we could go to with things like acne, pms, a sore throat, whatever and ask "is this normal or should I take this to the doctor?" VS the way things are now where you have to go to the same doctor as if you were sick, pay the same amount, and take time away from the doctor seeing people who are actually sick just to ask if something is worth talking about, and then if it IS worth talking to the doctor about, that doctor often refers you to a specialist rather than doing anything about it.
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Posted 5/8/17
Here in Finland you don't have to pay your health insurance after taxes.
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Posted 5/8/17

AppleFart wrote:

Try getting auto insurance after you have a few accidents or a couple DUI's, I'm pretty sure those people have to pay a lot extra. Why should a health insurer have to charge someone with heart disease or a history of other severe medical issues the same premium as a healthy person?

I think that the President has said that there will be a high risk pool for pre-existing conditions will be partly subsidized to help out those who need help.

Our current health care system is collapsing and will leave everyone without insurance if it's not fixed. We can do nothing for another 8 years or make some changes. Trump can have his shot. He can't make it any worse at this point.

Hospital emergency rooms will never deny an patient emergency care because they have no insurance. Ever.


For starters, everyone is required by law to have their vehicle insured when driving on a road. Next, you can easily attribute fault to a dui or accident. Health conditions are not as easily attributed due to the fault of an individual except in the case of behaviors like smoking, which smokers tend to pay more anyway. Additionally, car insurance cost is not only attributed by risk, but by also by the type of vehicle and cost of replacement. If someone can't afford health insurance, it's not like they can downgrade to a more economic model body. And that doesn't even begin to get into how many people have their insurance tied to their workplace. Bottom line: people most in need of healthcare tend to be the least able to pay the costs, an hiking or denying their insurance fails the entire premise of insurance offsetting upfront costs.

The US mandates auto-insurance to help mitigate the costs of litigation when people get into accidents, but when it comes to mandating insurance to cover health issues to offset the costs of covering those who are in most need of it suddenly it's creeping socialism.

The proposed risk pool amount of $8billion is a drop in the bucket considering costs in 2012 were $3trillion.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/danmunro/2012/01/19/u-s-healthcare-hits-3-trillion/#5bc168463da8
Cutting a wide swath of people into that high risk pool because they have preexisting conditions like acne will only lead to it collapsing in on itself rather quickly.

The current system is far from perfect, with insurers still trying to dodge less healthy individuals signing up in the Obamacare marketplaces and rates still going up. But yank the mandate that insurers cover applicants and for people to apply, like Trumpcare proposes, and the state of the healthcare as a whole is going to be worse. Insurers will pick and choose, hospital emergency rooms will get higher volumes of uninsured, and less preventative care will be used by the populace due to costs. Offsetting costs to hospitals when patients can't afford to make payments won't magically make those costs go away, and will hurt the ability for hospitals to service patients overall.

So yes, it could get worse under Trumpcare.
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Posted 5/8/17 , edited 5/8/17
So we are supposed to spend trillions to keep people who contribute nothing to society alive? For what? Sorry, I'm not paying $1000 a month to keep some fat slob alive that can't leave his house without the assistance of a forklift. Nor will I pay to chop off some guys dick because he is feeling like a woman. If we have to have high risk pools paid for by the public, these people should be forced to eat properly, quit smoking, quit drinking, exercise and work for a living or lose coverage.

I'd rather that money be spent on the future well-being of children.
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Posted 5/8/17 , edited 5/8/17

AppleFart wrote:

So we are supposed to spend trillions to keep people who contribute nothing to society alive? For what? Sorry, I'm not paying $1000 a month to keep some fat slob alive that can't leave his house without the assistance of a forklift. Nor will I pay to chop off some guys dick because he is feeling like a woman. If we have to have high risk pools paid for by the public, these people should be forced to eat properly, quit smoking, quit drinking, exercise and work for a living or lose coverage.

I'd rather that money be spent on the future well-being of children.


xD the future is consumerism. Our new generation is fucked. This generation relys on inheritance, and the next will be run into the ground.

The future of children is dead, they have become mindless, they are taught to buy online, to never carry cash, to always get what they want instead of what they need.

We will keep paying to keep fat fucks alive, because those fat people buy nothing but junk, non perishable items, which is exactly what they want, get fat and unhealthy please! So we can keep you under control and dependant on sugars, sweets, and unhealthy options.

You think the world wants to help people? they would rather watch them slowly destroy themselves and take advantage of hard working people to help them. Why should they help them? Someone needs to buy, someone needs to keep buying. Just like giving other less fortunate countries, or towns the bottom of the barrel so that they to become dependant on scraps and fat

Learn that the world is darker than you think. It's not as simple as one might imagine, but so real that we cant stop it.
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