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Post Reply Aetna Is Latest Health Insurer to Quit Obamacare Markets
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47 / M / Auburn, Washington
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Posted 5/24/17 , edited 5/26/17

Ranwolf wrote:

Geez every time I hear this I wonder why you Yanks put up with all this healthcare nonsense.


Capitalism. The bullshit we had ten years ago worked like this.

A bunch of companies had, in the 19th century, built massive empires built on betting people were more afraid of getting medical problems than they had actual medical problems. And that system just kept going on and on until we had what amounts to this.

Insurance company: Bet you $200 your healthcare costs less than $200 this month!
Customer: Bet you I'mma get real sick and it costs more! (Hands over money)

So these companies are rich as shit, because people are stupid. But an important part of the process was being able to do this.

Customer: *cough* Bet you I get sick!
Insurance company: YOU'RE ALREADY SICK.

And for the past thirty years, we've been trying to fix this. It's not easy to fix, because fundamentally we need to take a whole bunch of rich companies and destroy their business model, putting hundreds of thousands of Americans out of work. Plus we have a whole lot of money in politics, so those rich companies will stomp all over any really overt legislation.

Which means we have to be really sneaky and subtle about it. We started out forcing hospitals to treat regardless of ability to pay, which ended up with a lot of huge bill horror stories. Then we tried putting the Federal government in the middle of the process, to serve as a meaningful regulatory body, but the Supreme Court said we could only do that to a limited degree and the states are fucking retarded so they didn't help.

And hey, what a surprise it was, looking at the states that yelled "FUCK YOU" about the idea: Idaho, Texas, Oklahoma, Utah, Georgia, Florida, South Dakota, Tennessee... it's like a fucking litany of stupid and crazy. And even some of the stupid or crazy states went "actually, sounds like a good idea" - Kentucky, Louisiana, West Virginia, Montana.

Now, there's a next step, which will take a few years and someone in Congress or the White House who understands the road ahead and can get broad bipartisan support. That step is to say "hey, with all these insurers backing out of the ACA, some markets have no insurers in the exchanges at all and we should just create a Federally-administered health insurance plan that is always available on every exchange."

That's a totally reasonable idea, and once everybody nods their head about it, we will have a situation where there is government health care and private health care in the exchanges. All the major players in the health insurance field will have already exited the exchanges, so they will have a business model that can survive this change. That business model will serve as a road map for any company that can't compete with the government in the exchanges. And over time, the government will compete more and more effectively on health care - military health care fucking rocks, so we already have experience providing awesome health care and we know what it looks like - until the exchanges only contain the Federal program anyway.

Once that happens, it's just a hop skip and a jump to saying "look, processing all this paperwork and bullshit for people to be on the Federal plan is expensive, so why don't we just put everyone on it automatically and the only catch is that you have to bill your primary first?"

And then we'll have real health care, like the rest of the world.


Ah you silly little Americans will never get it will you?


We get it, we just have to get the whole fucking country from here to there without making so many people mad that they burn the wagons and have to stay where they are. And Americans are some really fucking stupid, angry people. Our entire country is founded on the virtues of being stupid and angry.

Well, and racist. That one's important, too. Hence all the confederate flags.
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Posted 5/24/17
I don't think that there is much controversy now with saying that Obamacare is broken. The real question now is what do you replace it with and how do you transition?
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34 / M / London
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Posted 5/26/17
Well, the main problem, as I see it, is that in this country, medical costs will need to be socialized and we will go to a one payer system. Unfortunatelly the U.S. system has been optimized around revenue and profits instead of safety and quality. My cousine works at hospital and she told me that they used to order ultrasound machines at https://bimedis.com/search/search-items/medical-imaging-equipment from Japan and Germany mostly for their hospital. Lack of trust for the proper management of medical equipment in our country is quite serious problem, as for me.
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Posted 5/27/17

DengekiFugu wrote:


"My premium is 75 dollars a month and that's only because I make more then 42 k a year in adjusted net income . . ."


From the article: "A single individual earning $42,244 can expect to pay $4,222."

That's $352/month for an individual. Are you also supporting 3 dependents on $42k? That's the only way your $75/month claim can be remotely truthful.


Are you including his entire tax as a healthcare tax? Honestly U.S's tax is just far too low, historically low at that.
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31 / M / Ontario
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Posted 5/27/17
Profits. The only reason the US does not have universal healthcare is because (on average) nearly twice the amount of money is spent per person in the US on health related matter than any other country with a universal healthcare plan. At 16.1% of their total expenditure, is it any surprise that there would be enough money floating around to make sure there was never a not for profit health care system? There are way too many people getting rich off of it for anyone to really want to change it..

...cept Obama, Bill Clinton, Richard Nixon, John F. Kennedy, Lyndon Johnson, Gerald Ford, Jimmy Carter, Theodore Roosevelt, Franklin Roosevelt, Dwight Eisenhower, Ronald Reagan and even both Bushes had their teams put plans together.
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Posted 5/27/17

TarNaru33 wrote:

Are you including his entire tax as a healthcare tax? Honestly U.S's tax is just far too low, historically low at that.


No, they aren't. The effective taxes paid are comparable to Europe, while getting less for the money. I paid an effective 30% in taxes last year, and that is when factoring deferred compensation into the mix, despite that I will still need to pay taxes on it when I take it out. If I exclude that, then it is 33% in taxes. This is overall tax paid (and not returned) divided by gross income. I am only in the 25% federal income tax bracket. When people speak of the US taxes, they only include federal, they don't include social security, medicare, state and local, property taxes, or sales/VAT taxes (which I have to pay, but didn't include in my numbers).
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Posted 5/27/17

ishe5555 wrote:


TarNaru33 wrote:

Are you including his entire tax as a healthcare tax? Honestly U.S's tax is just far too low, historically low at that.


No, they aren't. The effective taxes paid are comparable to Europe, while getting less for the money. I paid an effective 30% in taxes last year, and that is when factoring deferred compensation into the mix, despite that I will still need to pay taxes on it when I take it out. If I exclude that, then it is 33% in taxes. This is overall tax paid (and not returned) divided by gross income. I am only in the 25% federal income tax bracket. When people speak of the US taxes, they only include federal, they don't include social security, medicare, state and local, property taxes, or sales/VAT taxes (which I have to pay, but didn't include in my numbers).


Yes, that is because I am talking about federal taxes, it is historically low. We all pay those taxes you mentioned, but the federal tax is what pays for the federal government's expenses, which is needed to be higher.
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Posted 5/28/17
So glad I don't live in the US.

You manage to have the world's most expensive healthcare system, by far, and even then not everyone is covered.

It is a slow motion train wreck that no-one seems able to fix in even the slightest way.

Meanwhile it is chewing people up and spitting them out, broken, sick and destitute.

If you live in the States I hope you stay healthy...



Posted 5/28/17
watches it unravel
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47 / M / Between yesterday...
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Posted 5/28/17

ishe5555 wrote:


TarNaru33 wrote:

Are you including his entire tax as a healthcare tax? Honestly U.S's tax is just far too low, historically low at that.


No, they aren't. The effective taxes paid are comparable to Europe, while getting less for the money. I paid an effective 30% in taxes last year, and that is when factoring deferred compensation into the mix, despite that I will still need to pay taxes on it when I take it out. If I exclude that, then it is 33% in taxes. This is overall tax paid (and not returned) divided by gross income. I am only in the 25% federal income tax bracket. When people speak of the US taxes, they only include federal, they don't include social security, medicare, state and local, property taxes, or sales/VAT taxes (which I have to pay, but didn't include in my numbers).


Your effective rate and the actual rate of say Bill Gates are about 25% apart not more that he is pay it is less. There are more loop holes and crave outs once you get over a certain rate find the right accountant and you could be paying a low as 5 or 6% depending on how tight he can squeeze the rules.

See your effective rate and actual rate are the same the super rich they all pay an actual rate that is much lower if anything at all. So why the hell are they getting a free lunch.

My rate is 21% but that is the income bracket I fall in never been much more then that.
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Posted 5/28/17 , edited 5/28/17

TheZaphod wrote:

So glad I don't live in the US.

You manage to have the world's most expensive healthcare system, by far, and even then not everyone is covered.

It is a slow motion train wreck that no-one seems able to fix in even the slightest way.

Meanwhile it is chewing people up and spitting them out, broken, sick and destitute.

If you live in the States I hope you stay healthy...





Funny thing this happens about once a century used to happen more often but we always come out of it more left leaning then when we went into it. So the train won't wreck it will stop and we will fix the tracks it's on and then make the rich pay for it. History learn it or repeat it over and over again.
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