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Post Reply "call it by name" pence says isis is guilty of genocide against christians
Posted 5/13/17
Looks like this has turned into wall of text.. i'm outta here
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Posted 5/13/17 , edited 5/13/17
Early muslims didn't like christians much because of their attempts of prophecies. I got 3 different korans (and a bunch of different bibles) I've been reading, but what I remember reading at some point is along the lines of the first version of muhammad or at least one of the early ones, stating that certain forms of prophecies were evil. Such as, the apocalyptic prophecies and the return of someone. If one observes christians modernly, one can see why this can be, as christians typically just make excuses for things constantly getting worse instead of doing anything for themselves other than accepting some sort of rule.

Both christianity and islam got corrupted.

Isis is taught as the current version of the bible. If you examines the mythology of osiris, set, horus, and isis one will obviously recognize many connections to christianity with the common name changes that happen across regions. One big reoccurring aspect is that isis pops up over and over again, often known as healing horus after a death situation, thus making the individual into a sacrifice. Well this is what the bible teaches in many ways as reincarnation of some sort and the striker or devil is known as isis in some religions, mara in others and eve in the common bible. There are many instances of individuals coming about that take upon characteristics that have been simplified to the names above, and isis has been shown to be a commonality of disruption in all of them as a struggle with secrecy and temptation. I find that taking the name isis as a terror group recognizes much more in christian mythology that many christians do.

Isis as a terrorist groups has some understanding of this, can see it in much they do, although the organization is extremely broken and seems to clutch at mythology in their acts just to have reasons to do stuff. Many islamic people will say that isis is actually ran by jews to make muslims look bad. I see isis as a group endorsed by governments to help inspire the masses to cower and favor being governed for protection so that the ways of rule can be preserved in favor of those that think they are currently ruling things.

There is so much misinformation circulating out there, one can only look at the roots of everything to know truth. All the various institutions are going to attempt to distract anyone until they give up on figuring stuff out for what's really happening. Groups like ISIS help this occur.
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Posted 5/13/17 , edited 5/13/17

runec wrote:



I'm not referring to Christians in America. As I said, elsewhere in the world. Christian militias and such in Africa have done some amazingly heinous shit and are doing so right now. There's no act of violence you can point to from ISIS that can't be matched by the LRA for example. But the US media rarely pays any attention to Africa as a whole.

Though you are touching on another problem with the US media: Excusing a Christian extremist as mentally ill but pinning everything on an Islamic extremist. Like anyone that goes out and murders people for some "higher" purpose is mentally stable. Christian extremists are always portrayed as lone wolves while Islamic extremists are always part of a larger nefarious plot. If a Muslim extremist murders someone in the US its wall to wall 24/7 fear monger coverage. If a Christian extremist murders someone in the US, they get Ann Coulter to go on Fox and make jokes about it to Bill O'Reilly.





Well at least you're not only accusing white Christians of violent acts.

I think alot of Christian extremists are just brain washed and had bad up bringings, same as Muslims. But i think they are more often than not lone wolves or insain. Compared to Muslims who sometimes are recruited and influenced in Islamic schools and mosques.
Hmm not sure, from stuff i watch Christian extremists are usually labled as white supremacists/nazis or something.

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Posted 5/13/17

kadmos1 wrote:

Christianity definitely has had it's fair share of genocidal periods (the Crusades might be an example).


I wasn't alive for that one, so I'm not guilty. Neither was anyone I know. Some of my ancestors probably caught, killed and ate some of yours, does that mean I deserve retribution? Next caller!
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Posted 5/13/17
There is no guilt. Everything happens perfectly. All is evolving. Catching up to the constant state of evolution continuously evolving is recognizing that we are all 1. None of us can ever be anything other than ourselves. No point in attempting to guilt trip, just gotta accept what actually did happen without reinterpreting everything as good/evil or any other division of consistency as 1.
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Posted 5/13/17 , edited 5/13/17

MrAnimeSK wrote:

Well at least you're not only accusing white Christians of violent acts.

I think alot of Christian extremists are just brain washed and had bad up bringings, same as Muslims. But i think they are more often than not lone wolves or insain. Compared to Muslims who sometimes are recruited and influenced in Islamic schools and mosques.
Hmm not sure, from stuff i watch Christian extremists are usually labled as white supremacists/nazis or something.



The large majority of Isis claimed attacks in Western countries are from self-radicalized, lone individuals or small cells. The same as the self-radicalized lone individuals or small cells claiming white supremacist or nazi labels. And just as Isis claims a very narrow and hostile view of Sunni Islam, the LRA and nazi groups tend to adopt their own specific ideas on what it means to be a proper Christian. That doesn't mean that any of those groups reflect Islam or Christianity as a whole. Hell, most other Muslim groups and countries are on the front lines of fighting Isis.

Yes, Isis has been and is committing atrocities against Christians. They've also been doing the same to Yazidis, Turkmen, Kurds, and Shiites. They're an extremist group capitalizing on a very narrow religious view at odds with pretty much all of the world around them.
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Posted 5/13/17

VeggyZ wrote:

It's true. My grandpa has been telling me about the Christian genocide and persecution overseas for YEARS. Probably since before this kinda thing was all over the news, and for the longest time I didn't really get what he was talking about.

People try to cast doubt on Christians but the fact remains that our holy book doesn't tell us that it's okay to kill another, and it doesn't provide us with instructions on how to do it - the Quran does, in frightening detail. People toss "The Crusades" out there and act like "gotcha!" - the Crusades were countering hundreds of years of lost territory and religious war and that's how the campaigns of the crusades got their beginning in the first place. The conflict is not new, it's the WAY OF LIFE for people who truly believe the Quran and take it seriously. What is happening right now is a direct extension of why the Crusades happened, because now as was back a thousand years ago, their way of life involves raping and dominating all others in the name of Islam - it wasn't just Christians going around killing Muslims - it might have been brutal - but that's what happens when you start religious wars, people just may have a response to it. I'm so sick of hearing shallow "but the crusades!" arguments when the people making them don't know the first thing about why the crusades came to be. When a conflict has been going on for hundreds of years, progressively, and spreading like CANCER, the Crusades WILL HAPPEN.

The claim that ISIS are only doing what they do in response to countries like the USA bombing them is bullshit too. IF that were truly the case, the Islamic State would not be killing Muslims in their own countries the way that they are in places like Pakistan, Iran, and Saudi Arabia. I would dare say they have an even BIGGER problem with terrorism than we do... were they bombing ...themselves, for not being Muslim enough? I must have missed that one, but that is indeed what is happening. Sounds like a wonderful faith.

Have you ever gotten a good look at the type of person who spreads negative stereotypes about Christians? I don't mean to be judgmental, but they're usually inked up with pentagrams and have more piercings on their face than most people do on their entire body. I'm all for self-expression, but sometimes a bad egg looks like one on the outside, and that's the type that I encounter that try to sell me the message that "Christians are as bad as Muslims" - it's not true. The fundamentals of the faith are TOTALLY different. If you don't believe that I challenge you to do some reading on what exactly Muhammad wrote in the Quran - as directive for all "good muslims" or "muslims of faith" - it's pretty messed up stuff. There are well over 100 passages throughout the Quran that go into specifics about how and why it's okay to kill those who do not believe in Islam, and how they're less than human - much like how they believe women are less than human, and herd them with special "woman hitting" sticks. Absurd and offensive, I don't really care who you are, one should not be okay with a culture such as this.

It's just out of character for almost every serious Christian I know - they don't pick fights and they have not in my lifetime. I have yet to meet one Christian who was serious about his faith, who also thought he could go around picking fights. Most of the Christians I know donate, they volunteer, and they do all that other stuff that I'm willing to bet maybe one or two of us here on CR have ever done in our lives. I'll fight to the death, when it comes to that, because I was instilled with a strong sense of right and wrong - the morality that Islam doesn't even bother teaching. The love, and the compassion - which their prophet says is "weakness" is what I hinge my every day on.

It's about time they call it what it is - because up until now I've been wondering why they have not been making a bigger deal of it outside of the church circles.

Oh yeah, and what the HELL is with all these "Hijab are so liberating" people suddenly? It's more like "you'll get your head smashed or stoned to death if you don't cover your face with one" in most Muslim majority nations. BIG DIFFERENCE FEMINISTS. I heard a heartbreaking story yesterday about a father who had his 13 year old daughter killed because her veil fell off during dinner. I mean what the f***... that's NORMAL over in those nations. That's their norm - that people in the west can't stop defending, and then they wonder why they're being attacked by "Sharia police" once their nations adopt that crap.

veggy, its sad to say but they wont listen, they alwayssay we Christians have had a bad past but unlike countries where muslim faith is majority, we stopped but people wont admit that and they wont admit they have been doing this for hundreds of years
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Posted 5/13/17

MasterBismuth33 wrote:

The past sins of your ancestors are not yours. The past is over. Let it go. All of our ancestors were guilty of evil.


rest of America doesn't think that way about whites, and Christians though
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Posted 5/13/17

redokami wrote:

veggy, its sad to say but they wont listen, they alwayssay we Christians have had a bad past but unlike countries where muslim faith is majority, we stopped but people wont admit that and they wont admit they have been doing this for hundreds of years


Yes, you tend to tend to run into discrepancies when you compare counties that espouse a separation of church and state with those that don't. The same for comparing the relatively stable governments of long established 1st world countries with those of developing countries whose governments were formed in a post-colonial or post-soviet era. Developing christian majority countries tend to be more focused on persecuting gays, ala Uganda's 2014 bill ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uganda_Anti-Homosexuality_Act,_2014 ) or extremists grabbing child soldiers like the LRA.

Any religion can be taken to extremes and taken to authoritarian extremes when the government of a country is not resolved to peace and justice regardless of religious creed. And when a country is resolved to equality for all peoples, you get ~3.3 million Muslims living in the US peacefully.
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Posted 5/13/17

geauxtigers1989 wrote:


redokami wrote:


rest of America doesn't think that way about whites, and Christians though


^

See what I mean? These discussions always turn into a self-pity fest for white Christians in the U.S.


that wasn't self pity, It was simply pointing something out
because it has been said a HELL of a lot these past 2 years about whites, and Christians,
that whites need to atone for slavery, that Christians and whites still oppress
that whites are racist simply for being born white
that Christians are bigoted just because we are Christian

nice try though
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Posted 5/13/17
I think the original polls needs context, concerning the regions where Christians are persecuted, for once.
Posted 5/13/17
Oh so people now deny the face Christians get killed and persecuted? Sounds like people who are ignorant to the truth and only believe what's in front of them. It's what makes people foolish. It's not far from the truth, because believe it or not, in the Koran, it says to behead Christians and non-believers.

Here are some verses from their Koran:
8:12- “I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off.”

47:4- “Therefore, when ye meet the Unbelievers (in fight), strike off their heads; at length; then when you have made wide Slaughter among them, carefully tie up the remaining captives”: thereafter (is the time for) either generosity or ransom: Until the war lays down its burdens.”

9:29- "Fight those who do not believe in God and the last day... and fight People of the Book, (Christian and Jews) who do not accept the religion of truth (Islam) until they pay tribute (Zizziya tax) by hand, being inferior.”

I wouldn't be surprised regarding ISIS as an aggressive, radical muslim organization to do this. It's common knowledge, yet people still want to turn blind to this issue. And to the people saying Christians trying to play the victim? How exactly? If you knew the truth behind these muslim countries, you'll see how oppressive they are. They believe in convert, become a second class citizen, or die. Those are the cold hard facts. Wake up to the truth. These are all facts and if you can't accept it, then don't say anything at all, because saying it turning a blind eye won't change what's reality.
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Posted 5/13/17 , edited 5/13/17
It may be not a message to the public, but to international bodies to act. I mean, the UN's track record is not quite good in any case


AliceGhoul wrote:

Oh so people now deny the face Christians get killed and persecuted? Sounds like people who are ignorant to the truth and only believe what's in front of them. It's what makes people foolish. It's not far from the truth, because believe it or not, in the Koran, it says to behead Christians and non-believers.

Here are some verses from their Koran:
8:12- “I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off.”

47:4- “Therefore, when ye meet the Unbelievers (in fight), strike off their heads; at length; then when you have made wide Slaughter among them, carefully tie up the remaining captives”: thereafter (is the time for) either generosity or ransom: Until the war lays down its burdens.”

9:29- "Fight those who do not believe in God and the last day... and fight People of the Book, (Christian and Jews) who do not accept the religion of truth (Islam) until they pay tribute (Zizziya tax) by hand, being inferior.”

I wouldn't be surprised regarding ISIS as an aggressive, radical muslim organization to do this. It's common knowledge, yet people still want to turn blind to this issue. And to the people saying Christians trying to play the victim? How exactly? If you knew the truth behind these muslim countries, you'll see how oppressive they are. They believe in convert, become a second class citizen, or die. Those are the cold hard facts. Wake up to the truth. These are all facts and if you can't accept it, then don't say anything at all, because saying it turning a blind eye won't change what's reality.

I think the general argument Sundin has is when people not in those countries use the oppression overseas to make it seem as if the world, or their differing culture in a different land, is against them, much similar to how a black person can play the victim card over slavery of his ancestors and demanding reparations. It is not only disrespectful to the people who actually faces these atrocities, but makes one seems preoccupied with proving a point over their own trivial matters of "respect" that is mostly brought up on the internet. Essentially, first world problems

In any case, I would not say the reasons for said "oppression" are the same, as are the outcomes. One might as well invoke Godwin's law over petty shit like this, and compare people to Hitler. People on both sides should grow a pair and avoid these low level assholes, because they actually can in Western countries.

That being said, I do not know if this is the case in this thread.
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Posted 5/13/17 , edited 5/13/17

redokami wrote:

that wasn't self pity, It was simply pointing something out
because it has been said a HELL of a lot these past 2 years about whites, and Christians,
that whites need to atone for slavery, that Christians and whites still oppress
that whites are racist simply for being born white
that Christians are bigoted just because we are Christian

nice try though


You aren't seriously comparing mean things said on twitter to people's lives legitimately being threatened are you?
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