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Post Reply Is mind uploading possible?
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Posted 5/14/17 , edited 5/14/17
Here it is, without understanding what consciousness is completely, can consciousness be transferred from one brain to the other?

The Experiment:
Assuming you 3D scan your brain structure into the computer where you can look at the 3D image of your brain. Can you theoretically pour in your consciousness from your brain into this 3D structure? I've always imagined our consciousness to be the electrical synapses (water) running inside the brain (glass), so it seems technically possible to transfer this electrical synapses into the 3D brain structure.

Conclusion:
Do you think this is possible to achieve or not?
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Posted 5/14/17
Copied maybe Transferred unlikely.

Even copying would require a better understanding of the human brain.
Would the copy be you? Yes it would it has your memories it wouldn't be the original you but it would still be you just like a clone

The best idea to immortality via brain transfer would be to slowly replace each part of the brain one by one and let it transition (if even possible this is only in though) but even then you would come across the "ship of theseus" paradox (i believe it is still the same boat even if 100% of it is replaced mainly because my beliefs on what stands as one entity is different then most.

but for most people they would consider this a copy and you would be dead.

Either way your fucked and its a copy.
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Posted 5/14/17 , edited 5/14/17
In another 20 years or so this will probably be possible.
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Posted 5/14/17

Ryulightorb wrote:

Copied maybe Transferred unlikely.

Even copying would require a better understanding of the human brain.
Would the copy be you? Yes it would it has your memories it wouldn't be the original you but it would still be you just like a clone

The best idea to immortality via brain transfer would be to slowly replace each part of the brain one by one and let it transition (if even possible this is only in though) but even then you would come across the "ship of theseus" paradox (i believe it is still the same boat even if 100% of it is replaced mainly because my beliefs on what stands as one entity is different then most.

but for most people they would consider this a copy and you would be dead.

Either way your fucked and its a copy.


Yes, the transition idea is precisely what I am talking about, from the real brain to the 3D brain achieving digital immortality. Even if most people consider this a copy I believe the 3D brain would contain the original consciousness. Even though I really can't answer what consciousness is. And from this arise the question of, why isn't everyone's brain linked? And, there should be a delay in wavelength between everyone's brain so that no two brains are the same. And, what if you run a brain synchronized and parallel to the original brain?
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Posted 5/14/17
Maybe, maybe not. Perhaps ghost dubbing, as they call in GITS, is just a copy, an identical copy at best, but not the original, fooling itself to think a transfer has happened.
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Posted 5/14/17 , edited 5/14/17

PeripheralVisionary wrote:

Maybe, maybe not. Perhaps ghost dubbing, as they call in GITS, is just a copy, an identical copy at best, but not the original, fooling itself to think a transfer has happened.


Though a copy is just as good as the original it's still you.
SO you would succeed either way.


fredreload wrote:


Ryulightorb wrote:

Copied maybe Transferred unlikely.

Even copying would require a better understanding of the human brain.
Would the copy be you? Yes it would it has your memories it wouldn't be the original you but it would still be you just like a clone

The best idea to immortality via brain transfer would be to slowly replace each part of the brain one by one and let it transition (if even possible this is only in though) but even then you would come across the "ship of theseus" paradox (i believe it is still the same boat even if 100% of it is replaced mainly because my beliefs on what stands as one entity is different then most.

but for most people they would consider this a copy and you would be dead.

Either way your fucked and its a copy.


Yes, the transition idea is precisely what I am talking about, from the real brain to the 3D brain achieving digital immortality. Even if most people consider this a copy I believe the 3D brain would contain the original consciousness. Even though I really can't answer what consciousness is. And from this arise the question of, why isn't everyone's brain linked? And, there should be a delay in wavelength between everyone's brain so that no two brains are the same. And, what if you run a brain synchronized and parallel to the original brain?




The brain is a closed system that's why.
If you run a brain synchronized to the parallel brain it would be like a Remote control helicopter that could work.

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Posted 5/14/17 , edited 5/14/17
Alright here's a representation of how synapses runs in the brain


Here is a theoretical example of how electrical synapses transition from the original brain to the 3D brain. A brain is composed of neurons and electrical synapses, agreed? So now you have an electrical synapse travels from the real brain's neuron (1) to the 3D brain's neuron (2) then back to the original brain's neuron (3) all linked together.

The idea:
A normal nerve signal travels at 150m/s inside a brain, the jump from 1 to 2 could be shortens up to 3x10^8m/s (speed of light of course when you scan the electrical signal * shape and match it at the 3D brain's neuron to create an electrical signal there manually), then it runs the duration of 2 at 150m/s, and then jumps from 2 to 3 (create another electrical signal at original brain's neuron manually), there by completing the loop

The idea is similar to what if you runs half of the brain outside as the real brain, and another half of the brain inside a computer as a 3D brain, would it function as an entire brain?

Then technically you could synchronize the two brain's together all running the same electrical signal with one brain slightly slower than the other because of the speed for scanning, slower by maybe a few nano seconds.


Ryulightorb wrote:


fredreload wrote:


Ryulightorb wrote:

Copied maybe Transferred unlikely.

Even copying would require a better understanding of the human brain.
Would the copy be you? Yes it would it has your memories it wouldn't be the original you but it would still be you just like a clone

The best idea to immortality via brain transfer would be to slowly replace each part of the brain one by one and let it transition (if even possible this is only in though) but even then you would come across the "ship of theseus" paradox (i believe it is still the same boat even if 100% of it is replaced mainly because my beliefs on what stands as one entity is different then most.

but for most people they would consider this a copy and you would be dead.

Either way your fucked and its a copy.


Yes, the transition idea is precisely what I am talking about, from the real brain to the 3D brain achieving digital immortality. Even if most people consider this a copy I believe the 3D brain would contain the original consciousness. Even though I really can't answer what consciousness is. And from this arise the question of, why isn't everyone's brain linked? And, there should be a delay in wavelength between everyone's brain so that no two brains are the same. And, what if you run a brain synchronized and parallel to the original brain?




The brain is a closed system that's why.
If you run a brain synchronized to the parallel brain it would be like a Remote control helicopter that could work.


Precisely, a remote controlled helicopter

P.S Well I've never had my consciousness transferred into a laptop so I am kind of worried
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Posted 5/14/17
simple -no-
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Posted 5/14/17 , edited 5/14/17

MasterBismuth33 wrote:

Yes, it's possible. The technology is already out there and the government hides it from us. You can transfer your Soul/Consciousness to another body as well. Look up "cloning of celebrities". Many celebrities, politicians or anybody in a position of power have clones. Google "cloning centers". You can transfer a Soul into a machine, but you would not want that. Being in a metal machine makes you feel dead, alone, and separate like the character in Ghost in the Shell.


Now now, to transfer consciousness to another body would mean you need to halt the consciousness on that body for however many years it takes to grow, that and you need to bypass the memory problem. If you have a brain built in 3D it would come with all the memories. With many brains in 3D you get an MMORPG, that is what digital immortality is about, you can check out the anime Expelled from Paradise.
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Posted 5/14/17
nah
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Posted 5/14/17 , edited 5/14/17

MasterBismuth33 wrote:

Yes, it's possible. The technology is already out there and the government hides it from us. You can transfer your Soul/Consciousness to another body as well. Look up "cloning of celebrities". Many celebrities, politicians or anybody in a position of power have clones. Google "cloning centers". You can transfer a Soul into a machine, but you would not want that. Being in a metal machine makes you feel dead, alone, and separate like the character in Ghost in the Shell.

My bad, we need to come out eventually, you are right



Well alright you could come back out with a cloned body, that is how Expelled from Paradise does it, our technology might not be there yet
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Posted 5/14/17 , edited 5/14/17
This is essentially what I'm going into neuroscience to do. I don't think that an individual's consciousness is contained in the neurons/synapses alone. For one thing, the brain is not just comprised of those units and connections, there are also glial cells, blood vessels, and the neuroendocrine system. These things make up a huge portion of what contributes to our conscious experience. It may be somewhat simple in a number of years to "transfer" electrical patterns from the brain of an individual to a constructed "blank" brain with very similar construction and functional properties to the participant. If the rest of the brain matches, the neurons could learn (in their way) to develop very similarly to the original brain. it's pretty interesting stuff. but i don't know if we will ever be able to replicate the fluid components or glial cell activity from one individual to a different brain, let alone replacing someone else's. Seems like our consciousness, even if our memories and personality is somewhat intact, would be altered in ways that change everything for us.
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Posted 5/14/17 , edited 5/14/17

olbuddyolpal wrote:

This is essentially what I'm going into neuroscience to do. I don't think that an individual's consciousness is contained in the neurons/synapses alone. For one thing, the brain is not just comprised of those units and connections, there are also glial cells, blood vessels, and the neuroendocrine system. These things make up a huge portion of what contributes to our conscious experience. It may be somewhat simple in a number of years to "transfer" electrical patterns from the brain of an individual to a constructed "blank" brain with very similar construction and functional properties to the participant. If the rest of the brain matches, the neurons could learn (in their way) to develop very similarly to the original brain. it's pretty interesting stuff. but i don't know if we will ever be able to replicate the fluid components or glial cell activity from one individual to a different brain, let alone replacing someone else's. Seems like our consciousness, even if our memories and personality is somewhat intact, would be altered in ways that change everything for us.


Right hmm, the thing is what constitutes the thinking unit in our brain and there are many theories of consciousness and how it arises.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromagnetic_theories_of_consciousness

The idea that consciousness arises out of an electromagnetic field.

http://www.openworm.org/

A bit gross lol, essentially people are building an organism in the computer based on least number of neurons. And it is quite simple to simulate a brain with few neurons without simulating an entire electromagnetic field that is. Does the worm contain consciousness? Well I sent a letter asking them that question, but there could be many ethical concerns until I get a reply. You could take part in their project if you are interested.

So, you don't really need blood vessels to constitute a thinking unit, blood vessels are there to transfer oxygen and nutrients, and with an artificial brain like that, if you don't program those mechanisms, it would never grow old, and never gets hungry. The working unit for the brain is ATP and you can produce near infinite digital ATP in a computer. I haven't worked out the details, but what really powers the 3D brain would be electrical power that gets the computer running.
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Posted 5/14/17
If we could locate our mind in our brain then yes. Right now, we cannot even find where our memory is so it's not currently possible.
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