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Post Reply Where's the beef?
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Posted 5/22/17

DevinKuska wrote:

I would like to start by saying I have no issues with Ecchi/harem shows as long as they are well done. My personal "beef" is that it seems like Authors just don't understand how Ecchi/fanservice works anymore. Ecchi should IMO add situational humor to a scene that would otherwise be rather dry or dragging on, shock value if you will. The same is true with fan service as well. Lots of anime have the "beach" scene, which is a kind of a catch all chance to use fan service.

You mentioned Chobits which I think is a great example how Ecchi can be amusing when used correctly. My issue is shows like Akashic records. The show from what I have seen isn't Ecchi in the classic sense, and the "fan service" is so blatant(girl uniforms) i feel like it detracts from the show. Now if Akashic was indeed an Ecchi/hentai show the outfits would be fitting. However IMO the outfits make no sense for that show in particular and almost ruins the shows inherent storyline. Also you mentioned FREEZING which I am not sure why it qualifies as Ecchi. As the sexual playfulness was almost non existent, it was just breast shots every 45seconds which IMO makes it more of a Hentai but that's my opinion


Yes, tact is important. Seven Sins (running) is best worst example of ecci. It has cliché story, characters, boob flashes, no true lesson to be learned... yet. I have to see the ending but I don't expect much. I think Akashic was just an ecci which went through the corporate wringer and we're left with this; a show that doesn't know what it's trying to be. A forbidden romance? Raunchy comedy? Idk. I can't even call it FS, there's a bellybutton, something you see IRL on the street daily, anyway.

FREEZING is a gimmick show. Or maybe I'm an old jaded fart... It's gimmick is the nudity. But the story holds a very deep lesson. First season you get to see these nearly immortal women give their all to their partner and only be vulnerable with them, or to them. And we see the impact of that trust being broken in Satelizer and others. It shows the lasting and devastating impact of forcing one's self onto another over whom you hold power. In season two there's an even more powerful lesson when we find out the reason Satelizer had to become the Untouchable Queen. The story shows the dramatic and long lasting effects of ... well I'm not going to spoil the show, but the show's very good at not being in your face saying "don't do X because Y". Instead they show you this sensitive, kind, loving, and gentle soul who hurts every time someone nears her. You can't help but like her by the end of season one, but the MC just can't seem to come close to her, and she suffers by not being able to show her feeling though she wants to. Then bam, season two the author shows you "that guy, that guy broke her soul that's why she can't accept the kindness she deserves! What do you want done to him?". And there's no way anyone responds with "he's not so bad, let him live" (he's bad, just pointing out I think the bad guy is bad). So it probably does better job of "teaching men not to X" than any lecturer could. I'm saying, it has moral value higher than the T&A on display. And it targets an audience which may hold women in disregard. That's why I like FREEZING, and I mentioned it because it makes me feel. Porn doesn't do that -- well, not true, once I found myself reminiscing about my pizza delivery guy days, but that's it. I didn't do FREEZING's story any justice, but it's 2AM, it was a deep show though... omg the end few episodes near tears ... like I said, it's gimmicky but it has value.

So I see your point, "why smear a good plot with a gimmick?" Short answer, "target audience". I'm not saying Freezing taught me a lesson I didn't know, just that it does have a valid and pretty deep story.
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Posted 5/22/17

yumikikoharu wrote:

Pointed out by three other people above are some of my issues with it as well.

To me, ecchi/fanservice isn't that bad if kept at a minimum and not ruining the show. By ruining, I mean the shows plot isn't focused anymore because they decided the boob-grabs, swimsuit episodes and perverted misunderstanding are more important. Also, when there's too much ecchi, I find the show almost unwatchable due to seeing panty shots and jiggling boobs every few seconds. Don't get me wrong, I'm fine with some ecchi. No Game No Life had a lot of fanservice and stuff but they didn't get in the way of the story and most happen while the story is going on which mean it didn't take over the shows story so I'm fine with it. Also, many old shows I've seen from my childhood have fanservice but they didn't get in the way of the show and done well enough that my parents didn't have an issue with me and my siblings watching it. Today, it's just so blatant and they're pushing it to the limit of what's acceptable that we find it hard to even watch the show in the same room as our parents.

As for harem, there might be some good harem anime out there but most suffers from the ecchi problem above. I mean I've seen a ton of shows which promised a good plot with action, romance, and such but when the show airs, only a few episodes are focused on the story advertised and the rest are focused on how the girls will seduce the MC or hit him again when a perverted misunderstanding occurs.

This is all just my opinion though.


No Game No Life had FS? The bunny? I thought that was the point, to make satire of ecci. By the way, that show needs a reboot.

I never understood the jiggle, I have yet to find any flesh behave like that, let alone a breast.

I gave up on harem, domestic violence and indecisive dudes are getting annoying. That's why I liked High School DxD BorN ending, Issey grew a set, yey!


auroraloose wrote:

I'll say something here within the next few days; I do think you're looking at this from too narrow a perspective.


That's why I ask the question. I know my perspective is narrow. Thank you for putting in the thought. :)


HopexLight wrote:

I looove me some echii when it's part of the plot
but at the same tiiime...that seven deadly sin show or w/e I just end up laughing like a kid at because of how in your face it is.


Crap shows are crap. Thanks. Lol :P


Elvikun wrote:

It's all sexist and full of muh-sogeeny and made for rapists and male gaze and for white male straight viewers and I don't like it so noone can be allowed to like it I men oh my god like really, you cis white pig. This must be censored and changed right NOOOW. And don't you even try mansplain your way out of it!

...Or some such. Don't you know, the SJWs are moving into anime nowdays. Well, started in 2016, noticeably. So it's that and then also some random people who do not adhere to insanity, but just formulate their opinions rather oddly, so instead of saying "I don't like it." they say "You shouldn't like it." which makes it all feel a bit wrong. At the end of the day tho, I don't think we need to worry too much, the Japanese manga & anime & games showed rather commendable resistance to the western regressive crap crowd so hey, let us just keep enjoying out panties and bosoms while laughing at the screaming harpy.


See, that's my default setting, but I've only seen 2 responses which qualify for the "objectification of women" absurdity. As if men won't know women have breasts if not for MISOGYNY! Yeah, Japan is pretty resilient to outside pressures, but I depend on western companies for the content, I feel weird having to beg for people to take my money.
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Posted 5/22/17 , edited 5/22/17

dhristo1 wrote:

Did you even finish reading the sentence? I specify exactly what I don't see one group doing. Asking a question in an open forum is hardly an "echo chamber". You thought it's titillating enough to respond after reading (poorly) both my posts. You do realize this post doesn't affect any show's ratings. I never complained about the traffic, there's such statistic as "viewed" and then you do simple statistical analysis, simple. I do appreciate your response though, truly, I will work on tone and wording to be more sensitive in the future.


You created a thread in with, far more likely than not, folks would bitch about those who dislike ecchi and work each other up. That is an echo chamber. I read fine, thank you, so dispense with the notion that I'm dense, much less, that I easily overlook your assumptions regarding "the other team." You were whining about not getting the desired amount of traffic you desire, viewed or otherwise; my attention isn't important, so much as CR as a whole. You, yourself, expressed discontent with so few responding, so I'm confused with you knee-jerking when I state a fairly apparent explanation.

Also, nothing I've said has any relevance to the ratings of shows.


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Posted 5/22/17 , edited 5/23/17

dhristo1 wrote:

No Game No Life had FS? The bunny? I thought that was the point, to make satire of ecci. By the way, that show needs a reboot.

I never understood the jiggle, I have yet to find any flesh behave like that, let alone a breast.

I gave up on harem, domestic violence and indecisive dudes are getting annoying. That's why I liked High School DxD BorN ending, Issey grew a set, yey!



Well yeah, NGNL had occasional nudity and stuff like in the Blank's shiritori battle with Jibril for example and even panty shots like in their VR battle with Izuna. (I don't know what you mean by 'the bunny' though). I was fine with all of it because in a way, they made it part of the plot. And I think the 1st season was fine and they need to make a season 2 now (I mean they made a movie skipping some volumes already).

I have mostly given up on harem but I do find some good ones here and there (although it's my brothers who watch it and I just watch with them if it's interesting).

Anyways, on your original post, you mentioned that ecchi fans don't say anything bad about mystery or s-o-l shows. I think that's cause mystery/s-o-l/or any other genre could have ecchi/fanservice. I mean mecha anime like NGE has some nudity in it (and some other questionable thing) and animes about the zombie apocalypse like HotD had lots fanservise but they were put in as the story is going on. I noticed in many ecchi-centric anime, the actual story usually takes a backseat to the ecchi despite the synopsis saying there's gonna be an actual plot in it. Many people like story with their ecchi and not flimsy ones. I think that's the problem.
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Posted 5/22/17
Ok after reading more than one reply I see a need to clarify, "knocking down" was still in the context of Reviews, that's why I gave that little tidbit of background about reading reviews, to give context. I'm in no way trying to say that people shouldn't express their taste publicly. This is a mistake on my part, and I apologize, I will try to be clearer in the future.
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Posted 5/23/17 , edited 5/23/17
Its not right to knock it down in a review if they knew ecchi was a theme.
I would understand a bit more if it came as a shock to the reviewer but most anime is labeled properly.
So that probably isn't the case.

Myself, I'm not too interested in ecchi so I just don't watch it.
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Posted 5/23/17

Cardamom_Ginger wrote:


dhristo1 wrote:

Did you even finish reading the sentence? I specify exactly what I don't see one group doing. Asking a question in an open forum is hardly an "echo chamber". You thought it's titillating enough to respond after reading (poorly) both my posts. You do realize this post doesn't affect any show's ratings. I never complained about the traffic, there's such statistic as "viewed" and then you do simple statistical analysis, simple. I do appreciate your response though, truly, I will work on tone and wording to be more sensitive in the future.


You created a thread in with, far more likely than not, folks would bitch about those who dislike ecchi and work each other up. That is an echo chamber. I read fine, thank you, so dispense with the notion that I'm dense, much less, that I easily overlook your assumptions regarding "the other team." You were whining about not getting the desired amount of traffic you desire, viewed or otherwise; my attention isn't important, so much as CR as a whole. You, yourself, expressed discontent with so few responding, so I'm confused with you knee-jerking when I state a fairly apparent explanation.

Also, nothing I've said has any relevance to the ratings of shows.




Replying is not "knee-jerking", it's dialogue. I didn't complain about the traffic, just did simple analytics, times viewed number of replies, positive vs negative vs neutral, then used basic consumer statistics. Like you're 10x more likely to get a negative response than a positive. With the lack of negative responses there was only a few other conclusions. And you're a tiny bit overreacting, also your attitude is highly aggressive considering I did say I will try to be more sensitive in the future. I will not, however, be insulted, making an observation is hardly whining. I'm actually quite happy with most of the people who have responded. If anything you seem to be throwing a tantrum, when have I implied everyone on CR must pay attention to me, that's a bit hyperbolic, don't you think? And you seem to fail to grasp what an echo chamber is, and it definitely isn't a thread on an open forum over which the OP has no administrative control. I can't kick, ban, remove, or block people from responding. As for show ratings, check comment above. Thank you.
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Posted 5/23/17
I was trying to figure it out (been a few years since I watched NGNL) and I was trying to remember, for some reason the cover for Problem Children Come From Another World popped into my mind. Sorry. Now I have to rematch both to get them untangled in my mind. Lol work, work, work.
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Posted 5/23/17 , edited 6/15/17

dhristo1 wrote:

I was trying to figure it out (been a few years since I watched NGNL) and I was trying to remember, for some reason the cover for Problem Children Come From Another World popped into my mind. Sorry. Now I have to rematch both to get them untangled in my mind. Lol work, work, work.


Well, those two shows do have a lot in common so it's kind of understandable. I actually had a guess that the bunny you mentioned was from Problem Children. (Although I like NGNL more lol)
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Posted 5/23/17 , edited 6/15/17
If people do not like ecchi then that is fine, each to their own, but I would say disgracing it just because its echhi is a little immature. Its a shame that many members of fandoms across the internet (Comics, anime, video games, TV shows etc) have this strange "I do not like this, so no one else should enjoy/accept this"
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