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Post Reply Human Equality
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25 / M / USA
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Posted 5/27/17
In what form do you perceive human equality to be in its ideal state? Humans are products of both their nurturing and their natures--to undermine the variation in one is to make greater the variation within the other (ex. to make traits more heritable).


If all people receive the same education, then the differences in their abilities will be innate. A truly equal-opportunity society merely rewards the talented with the best jobs and relegates the rest to doing the dirty work.

Matt Ridely, Nature via Nurture


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28 / M / One of the few lo...
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Posted 5/27/17 , edited 5/28/17
Pretty simple really.

If we are all truly equal, then all the double standards wouldn't exist.

Until all the double standards are dealt with and destroyed there will be no true equality.

Most of you reading this probably figure I am referring to wage gaps, glass ceilings and what not...

If you are, I feel so sorry for you.

It's ideal state? No one will give a fuck if I smack you around for being a little bitch. And ideally, they won't give a fuck if you smack me around for being a giant cunt.
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28 / M / One of the few lo...
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Posted 5/27/17
I would add to my previous comment but people might be reading and commenting already so here is a fresh comment instead.

Furthermore from what I last said about smacking each other around.

If you can say what you want about me, I can say what I want about you. If you think you can treat me a certain way, it is only fair I treat you the same way back.

So on and so forth. That is real equality.
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27 / F / Outer Orbit
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Posted 5/27/17 , edited 5/29/17
We can't ever have true equality, for one, we are not all equal, not at all, and secondly, we built our societies on unequalities, and it's just not in the human nature to trully change that. There will always be the rich and the poor, the strong and the weak, the intelligent and the stupid, the beautiful and the ugly. The best we can aim for is equity within the groups people will fall into based on who and what they are, but true equality, no, humanity is not that kind of a beast, sadly.
True equality would mean reducing all humans into unthinking, identical drones. And I will take unequal, shitty world over that any day of the week.
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22 / F / USA
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Posted 5/27/17 , edited 5/29/17
I think there needs to be a differentiation of what you mean by equality when it comes to the human condition. There is equality before the law, political equality, equality of opportunity, equality of outcomes...

I think that a modern society should have equality before the law. This means that all people, regardless of race, gender, ethnicity, etc. should have equal legal protections and treatment when dealing with the judicial system.

All people should also have political equality. This means everyone should have the same political rights and responsibilities.

I think we should strive for equality of opportunity. Everyone should have access to at least a decent high school education. Nor should they be discriminated against for loans, admission to college, or starting a business. By the same token, people should be free to make their own choices about what they want to do which will lead to...

There should be an assumed inequality of outcomes. People are not the same. Even with equality before the law, political equality, and equality of opportunity things will turn out differently for people. People have different natural talents, hobbies, abilities, and choices and no two people will have the same life. Punishing one person for working harder or being smarter than another person is betraying the prior three equalities of a fair society. Likewise forcing people who may not have a talent or interest into a position they do not want also violates the other three equalities of a free society.
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Posted 5/27/17 , edited 5/27/17

CrownedSonofFire wrote:

Pretty simple really.

If we are all truly equal, then all the double standards wouldn't exist.

Until all the double standards are dealt with and destroyed there will be no true equality.

Most of you reading this probably figure I am referring to wage gaps, glass ceilings and what not...

If you are, I feel so sorry for you.

It's ideal state? No one will give a fuck if I smack you around for being a little bitch. And ideally, they won't give a fuck if you smack me around for being a giant cunt.
_____________________________________________

I would add to my previous comment but people might be reading and commenting already so here is a fresh comment instead.

Furthermore from what I last said about smacking each other around.

If you can say what you want about me, I can say what I want about you. If you think you can treat me a certain way, it is only fair I treat you the same way back.

So on and so forth. That is real equality.


Are you saying you don't think the existance of "wage gaps, glass ceilings and what not" is undesirable in a society with an "ideal state" of equality?

In which way is the lack of any of the aforementioned concepts contradictory to your own description of "It's ideal state"?
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47 / M / Auburn, Washington
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Posted 5/27/17

PrinceJudar wrote:

In what form do you perceive human equality to be in its ideal state?


Death. We're all the same when we're dead.

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21 / M / Earth
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Posted 5/27/17
No matter what situation the world is in, there will always be something to differentiate people, and as long as that differentiating factor exists, someone will use it to establish one variation as superior to the other.

Basically, the only way people can be equal is if everyone is exactly the same in every way, then there's no possible way to determine one person as superior to the other.
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Posted 5/27/17 , edited 5/27/17
Read Kurt Vonnegut's "Harrison Bergeron" and you start to see why true equality can cripple.

True equality is fool's gold. That said, we should still strive to seek it as everyone should have the same access to opportunity. We have different gifts, and opportunities should allow us to explore and nurture those gifts.

That said, if someone comes along as is good at multiple disciplines (e.g. Leonardo Di Vinci), what is HIS equality? How do you compare the least of us to the best of us?

In the end, it's best to try to seek a middle-ground, while allowing a wave-sine spectrum to achieve above and below the bar in any given area.

Idealism aside, as we move forward, we can barely handle issues with racism and gender-specific issues, much less the coming wave of ethical issues that will spring forth after the singularity. Human beings are limited, and I'm very curious as to what all this is going to look like in say, another century or so...
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28 / M / One of the few lo...
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Posted 5/27/17 , edited 5/27/17

Shuai-Fi wrote:


CrownedSonofFire wrote:

Pretty simple really.

If we are all truly equal, then all the double standards wouldn't exist.

Until all the double standards are dealt with and destroyed there will be no true equality.

Most of you reading this probably figure I am referring to wage gaps, glass ceilings and what not...

If you are, I feel so sorry for you.

It's ideal state? No one will give a fuck if I smack you around for being a little bitch. And ideally, they won't give a fuck if you smack me around for being a giant cunt.
_____________________________________________

I would add to my previous comment but people might be reading and commenting already so here is a fresh comment instead.

Furthermore from what I last said about smacking each other around.

If you can say what you want about me, I can say what I want about you. If you think you can treat me a certain way, it is only fair I treat you the same way back.

So on and so forth. That is real equality.


Are you saying you don't think the existance of "wage gaps, glass ceilings and what not" is undesirable in a society with an "ideal state" of equality?

In which way is the lack of any of the aforementioned concepts contradictory to your own description of "It's ideal state"?


Look. I am not going to say that the wage gap doesn't exist in some places around the world. I would be stupid to,

BUT, I know what the females at my work make, and it's the exact same the males of their same job description make. I DO make more than all of them, but that's because of what I do as a job and due to the duties I perform I make more.

My beef with it is that some people take that kind of situation and blow it way out of context to make it sound like the women are being paid unfairly.

They are not. At least at my job they are not. If anything they are making more than they should due to the fact that some of the older women (not all, younger generation is better for not being lazy....)... refuse to do the full job entitled to their pay rate, and they leave the excess work to the rest of the crew including the younger women mentioned in brackets.

So, from my experience in the work force, there is no wage gap. At least at my job. Or rather jobs, seeing as how everyone was very vocal about who made what at each and every job I have ever had.

Maybe it's a problem where you live, but it definitely isn't where I live, or at least have worked. Granted I could be the exception, but with so many similar experiences at each and every workplace I have been at... I kind of doubt it quite frankly. From what I have been told of from other workers at other jobs, both male and female... It definitely isn't just me experiencing this reality/truth/whatever you want to call it.

As for Glass ceilings... I see more glass cellars quite frankly. Again, my work experience. The older women at my work were all offered my higher paying job before I took the position. They all had the ability to get paid a good $5/hour more than their normal pay rate. But they didn't want to have to work a night shift, or have to work with sulphuric acid, or have to work on their own from time to time depending on if the other night crew was in or not. Shit, the hardest thing about this job was getting the 5th class certificate for power engineering. And that was paid for by the boss. (It was easy by the way.)

They had the choice to make better money, but they denied themselves that opportunity. Yet those same women will sit there in the coffee room when not working and complain about crap like glass ceilings existing at our work place...

SO yeah, sorry if I offend you with not really having much of a care about these things. They might be real problems in other places, but so far as I have seen it in Canada, it's not a problem here.

I would dare say it's a lot less of a problem than people try to make it sound like... cause you know, people who complain about their situations have a tendency to over exaggerate things... It's kind of a normal thing we humans do.

But you will probably get angry at me for saying things that don't fit your likely agenda.

If so, I don't really give two rat's asses what you have to say.

If not, and you are the more reasonable type who listens to honesty for what it is and doesn't call it something it isn't, then I'm all ears for what you have to say.

Simple as that.
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Posted 5/27/17
I consider it a nice ideal, but an unpractical one. After all, being truly equal would require being exactly the same, which has all sorts of issues. We can try to reduce some of the gaps through charity and such, but within reasonable limits.
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Posted 5/28/17
I believe human equality to be an unobtainable myth and one of the great lies of our times.

Men are only equal before God.
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Posted 5/28/17
equality for me is everyone embracing different cultures and experiences, not because "all humans are the same", but because we're all different.
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Posted 5/29/17
I agree with Mishio1. It's all well and good to consider ideals in human society, but not especially realistic.

Still, in answer to the topic, I would say that an "equal" society is a "fair" society. People are not entitled to money or success just because they are human, but they should be given the opportunity to better their lives if they put in the work to do so. I don't think excessive handouts create human equality.
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All of time / God
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Posted 5/29/17

cdarklock wrote:


PrinceJudar wrote:

In what form do you perceive human equality to be in its ideal state?


Death. We're all the same when we're dead.



this tops what i was about to say.

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