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Post Reply Pulling out of the Paris Agreement is more then just politics.
mxdan 
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Posted 5/31/17 , edited 7/14/17
I read a post today that does a good job summarizing why the Paris withdraw is a complete failure on leadership policy and puts party conjecture over our future. My question, since there is a sizeable support group for this, is why you support this withdraw from previous commitments when the bulk of our allies support it? A movement that's almost unprecedented in international politics.




"FYI, China and the EU reaffirmed their commitments to the Paris Agreement.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-global-idUSKBN1701DN

The real problem with it, as pointed out in the article, is that it goes against trends in the national and global economy towards clean energy, a growing sector with many many jobs. We're obviously very far off from being fully reliant on renewable energy, but the world is trending that direction. From an economic perspective, it's asinine to continue to invest in coal for a de minimis gain in jobs and energy security when we can accelerate progress in alternatives to traditional carbon-based energy production that will have a greater projected gain in jobs and energy security.

Edit: All this to say, there were basically no real negatives to the Paris Accords except in terms of disrupting existing energy and industry infrastructure to ensure greener practices. Like all treaties, it's only as binding as the parties make it, but it's a good start. Given that the majority of the world is for it, it's a little unexpected for the U.S. to withdraw.

Incidentally, given Trump's actions on the Paris Agreement, the failure of TPP, and his stated desire to pull out of NAFTA and NATO, I wouldn't be surprised if there is a serious lack of trust in the U.S. to have any consistency in honoring its treaty obligations. Given the anarchic international system (not to get too policies), it's necessary for states to stick to their obligations to deal with other states with any degree of credibility. International faith in the U.S. was actually fairly high until the Trump presidency, but these recent actions regarding treaties are more than troubling.

Edit 2 because apparently there aren't enough sources:

Trump on NAFTA: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/18/us/politics/nafta-renegotiation-trump.html

Trump on NATO: http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-nato-idUSKBN17E2OK

Anarchic international system: http://internationalrelations.org/anarchy-international-relations/
Treaty enforcement: https://www.asil.org/insights/volume/1/issue/1/enforcing-international-law

International approval of U.S. under Obama: http://www.pewglobal.org/2016/06/29/as-obama-years-draw-to-close-president-and-u-s-seen-favorably-in-europe-and-asia/

International opinion of Trump during the election: http://fortune.com/2016/06/29/donald-trump-gets-rock-bottom-ratings-in-international-survey/

Comparison of Trump and Obama International trips: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2017/05/25/trump-and-obama-are-having-very-different-trips-to-europe/


https://www.reddit.com/r/NeutralPolitics/comments/6eey64/what_are_the_pros_and_cons_of_trump_pulling_out/di9to3l/
Posted 5/31/17 , edited 6/2/17

All this to say, there were basically no real negatives to the Paris Accords except in terms of disrupting existing energy and industry infrastructure to ensure greener practices.


So, get rid of what works in favor of useless garbage like solar roads and dotting the landscape with turbines?
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Posted 5/31/17 , edited 6/2/17

These pacts don't really have much in the way of teeth.... Environmentalism is purely a matter of what business decides it wants it to be. It's been like that since the 90's at least.

Not saying that because I'm for greenhouse gasses and the likes, but because I've seen them fail and fail again.
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Posted 5/31/17 , edited 6/2/17
Paris Agreement was done to tackle Climate Change, but since Trump believes it's all a hoax, it makes sense that he would withdraw from it. It's also inline with his other policies in place - de-funding the epa and Cali early-warning system as well as the oil pipes.
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Posted 5/31/17 , edited 6/3/17
for one Paris Agreement would have a harmful affect on US economy at large. Something Trump promised the American people was to fix are economy. This would have affected America's jobs and created another funnel draining are coffers. ' In the end it is not cost affective.
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Posted 5/31/17 , edited 6/1/17
Why do we need it? We are already dropping carbon emissions without it. It's the nations who keep adding CO2 that should waste their tax dollars on a global tax going to ???. Like we need a tax on our businesses when our businesses and economy are already reducing emissions.



From here: http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/EN.ATM.CO2E.PC
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Posted 5/31/17 , edited 6/2/17

Amyas_Leigh wrote:


All this to say, there were basically no real negatives to the Paris Accords except in terms of disrupting existing energy and industry infrastructure to ensure greener practices.


So, get rid of what works in favor of useless garbage like solar roads and dotting the landscape with turbines?


Well we can't have people building nuclear power plants to reduce emissions. We need them to sign pointless agreements that tax countries so that the taxes can absorb CO2 out of the air!

I'd rather just dump billions into building modern nuclear plants everywhere it would be a better use of money and create jobs.
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Posted 5/31/17 , edited 6/3/17
Id post a professional study showing empirical evidence of the necessity of things like the Paris agreement, but let's be honest nobody who isn't already in the know would read it.
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Posted 5/31/17 , edited 6/2/17
TFW North Korea joined the Summit and the USA dropped out.

N. Korea > USA now? Kappa.
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Posted 5/31/17 , edited 6/3/17

Dark_Alma wrote:

TFW North Korea joined the Summit and the USA dropped out.

N. Korea > USA now? Kappa.


China is also staying in. Remember when China was the default Republican excuse for why we shouldn't cut emissions?
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Posted 5/31/17 , edited 7/14/17
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVOOMyYde0c&t=308s

Like him, dislike him, this is pretty informal on why Trump is pulling out.
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Posted 5/31/17 , edited 5/31/17

Lemontitties wrote:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVOOMyYde0c&t=308s

Like him, dislike him, this is pretty informal on why Trump is pulling out.


100% correct.. like I said It would kill America.
mxdan 
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Posted 5/31/17 , edited 6/3/17

Lemontitties wrote:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVOOMyYde0c&t=308s

Like him, dislike him, this is pretty informal on why Trump is pulling out.


So you trust some random guy's theoretical opinion on what might happen over countless studies that show what will happen if we don't tackle this issue.

Do you guys not think it odd that nearly the entire world agrees on something but the Republican party is caught on subterfuge and theoretical scenarios? Or is this just the 'liberal worlds' bias?
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Posted 5/31/17 , edited 7/13/17

mxdan wrote:


Lemontitties wrote:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVOOMyYde0c&t=308s

Like him, dislike him, this is pretty informal on why Trump is pulling out.


So you trust some random guy's theoretical opinion on what might happen over countless studies that show what will happen if we don't tackle this issue.

Do you guys not think it odd that nearly the entire world agrees on something but the Republican party is caught on subterfuge and theoretical scenarios? Or is this just the 'liberal worlds' bias?


'NO its true.. You are free to go green.. mattering where you live see how well that works for you.

gather heat from the ground using thermo energy. In Taxes it only take you 20 years to come out even. and that is one of the better places to use it. In new york it take you two life times.
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Posted 5/31/17 , edited 5/31/17

mxdan wrote:


So you trust some random guy's theoretical opinion on what might happen over countless studies that show what will happen if we don't tackle this issue.


Countless studies that show what will? Yeah, and in what lifetime exactly?


Do you guys not think it odd that nearly the entire world agrees on something but the Republican party is caught on subterfuge and theoretical scenarios? Or is this just the 'liberal worlds' bias?


Going off of the opinion of the globalist governments, I think I'd rather not increase the debt and economic down spire to our country and sign an agreement to a globalist bill for something that may or may not be imminent like what the video was suggesting. Sorry, but he's trying to bring back jobs right now, not cut them continuously.

Also, like Darkpheonix said. It's not a matter of if it'll hurt third world countries. It will, and can cause many unnecessary deaths.
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