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Trump's travel ban
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Posted 6/3/17 , edited 6/4/17

Amyas_Leigh wrote:



That guy was brandishing and pointing a pellet rifle (which is not a toy, they are used for hunting and can and have killed people) he removed from its packaging in the store without paying for it. Pretty stupid imo.
Not the same as some guy with a gun strapped to their body without pointing it at people

Plenty of black nationalist movements do open carry demonstrations without getting shot. Because they don't act like stupids and point them at people or brandish.

IMG

Also plenty more white people have been shot by police when they were legally carrying, or not.


Back in East Texas, pellet and airsoft guns were not only toys, but the toy of young boys XD

Can't find anything on whether he unpackaged the thing himself actually; no clue who goes around opening things in stores, but I am about 500% more likely to touch or fiddle with something myself if it has been left unboxed within my reach.

The point tho is the dissonance, the dissonance~. The same sort that celebrate a certain action will conveniently forget they do so if their values state that action and a situation don't mesh. It's something a bit beyond the contrary sources and arguments, but more about looking at all the events happening as a whole, no matter how big a splash they make. It's about comparing an event to all relevant events whether they support, defy, or remain ambiguous about interpretations on how people should feel about the event. After all that, depending on whether you're a cynic or not, people either look like hypocrites or incredibly and selectively flexible in their thinking.
runec 
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Posted 6/3/17 , edited 6/4/17

Amyas_Leigh wrote:
Despite wide reports that Abedi was reported by Didsbury Mosque, the mosque confirmed to Panorama that he was not.


From the same article:


Others in the community did report Abedi. A local youth worker told Panorama that while Abedi was at college in his teens, teachers and pupils were so worried they called an anti-terror hotline a number of times.


That's actually even worse. Why even have the hotline then?




Behind a paywall. However, if that's him then he's fighting alongside militants against Gaddafi's regime. Not terrorists. You guys were even supporting them with weapons and such.



Amyas_Leigh wrote:
I agree with intelligence in europe being fucked. Everytime an attack happens they always, whether its in Germany, France or the UK, know exactly what doors to kick in and places to raid and end up arrested a dozen or more.


This one is up to 17 arrests now. I sincerely doubt any of the names on said warrants were surprises to law enforcement and intelligence in the UK. We've got to get better at this.
Posted 6/3/17 , edited 6/4/17

runec wrote:


However, if that's him then he's fighting alongside militants against Gaddafi's regime. Not terrorists.
.


It was listed as a terrorist group by the USA until 2015. And funny its not still, especially After Salman's father and brothers were arrested for plotting more attacks.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libyan_Islamic_Fighting_Group

These groups is what created ISIS as we know it. Haven't you seen me on here bitching about Obama creating ISIS in Libya?
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Posted 6/3/17 , edited 6/4/17
I'm starting to think we need to give them visas, keys to trucks and free guns as long as they promise to stay in NYC, SF or LA.

Problems solved.

runec 
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Posted 6/3/17 , edited 6/4/17

Amyas_Leigh wrote:
It was listed as a terrorist group by the USA until 2015. And funny its not still, especially After Salman's father and brothers were arrested for plotting more attacks.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libyan_Islamic_Fighting_Group

These groups is what created ISIS as we know it. Haven't you seen me on here bitching about Obama creating ISIS in Libya?


Your own wiki link seems to disagree with you and no, they didn't create ISIS as we know it. ISIS has a pretty clear pedigree line.

There's also no information I can find on what militant group the imam allegedly belongs too. Unless that paywall article is specific.
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Posted 6/3/17 , edited 6/4/17

MysteryMiss wrote:

Let's talk about the travel ban as you know it is headed to the surpreme court
the countries are listed below :
Iran, Iraq, Sudan, Libya, Somalia, Syria and Yemen, I'm thinking hey i don't have a issue with this?

Many terrorists have trained or come from these countries right so here is the question?
>Do you support and if so why?
If you don't give answers as to why?

please keep on topic thanks


Why would the Supreme Court hear it last time I heard both the 9th Circuit and 4th Circuit courts of appeal had ruled against it. Since there is no disagreement in the lower Courts there would be no reason for the Supreme Court to take up the case. Trump can ask all he likes the current rulings stand. No really the Supreme Court doesn't over turn stuff like this it would go against everything the Court has done before.


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Posted 6/3/17 , edited 6/4/17

lawdog wrote:
Because campaign rhetoric has nothing to do with laws? Oh, and because Federal law gives Trump the discretionary power to do this?


He promised he would "kick out all the muslims." A big part of why the ban was struck down by the courts was the intent behind it, which violated the constitution. His previous rhetoric is acting as evidence in regards to that intent.
Posted 6/3/17 , edited 6/4/17

gvblackmoon wrote:


Why would the Supreme Court hear it last time I heard both the 9th Circuit and 4th Circuit courts of appeal had ruled against it. Since there is no disagreement in the lower Courts there would be no reason for the Supreme Court to take up the case. Trump can ask all he likes the current rulings stand. No really the Supreme Court doesn't over turn stuff like this it would go against everything the Court has done before.




Did you see why they blocked it? They literally made up some BS about it violating the 1st Amendment.

This will get unblocked as soon as the Supreme Court sees it, because they're is nothing unconstitutional about it. Its completely within the president's power to bar groups of aliens from the country.



Mishio1 wrote:

He promised he would "kick out all the muslims." .


You have a big scoop there, I can't seem to find where he's said that anywhere on the internet. You should sell your info to the media and make big bucks!
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Posted 6/3/17 , edited 6/4/17

Mishio1 wrote:

He promised he would "kick out all the muslims." A big part of why the ban was struck down by the courts was the intent behind it, which violated the constitution. His previous rhetoric is acting as evidence in regards to that intent.


Uh-huh...I followed Trump's campaign the whole way through up until his victory in the election. When did he say that...?
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Posted 6/3/17 , edited 6/4/17
Upon checking, it seems the statement I'd read up on was both paraphrased and taken out of context, my mistake. Regardless, the ban is still unconstitutional and largely pointless.
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Posted 6/3/17 , edited 6/4/17

Dafriz wrote:

.... due to how the travel ban is setup it is illegal as it is targeting a specific group of people without any reason (other than people trying to create fear for the masses)

per one example, when he originally initiated the travel ban it also included people visiting that were even legal citizens (at least most people believed that was the case due to how badly open it was worded) - had a friend who had parents that had immigrated from iran and he was born here - he is a legal natural citizen - he was visiting his grandparents back in Iran, he was on his way back and got held up in Europe due to him coming from Iran

basically he got finally got back about a week later due to all the confusion, can he go can he not? and oddly enough could not go back to Iran due to his visa... could not go to US because he was coming from Iran who could not go to US....

I'm against the ban as its a ban to basically anyone as well as a target on a specific ethnicity.... we already have strict and due to how few islamic based attacks we have in the U.S. I would say we do a pretty decent job already filtering the bad eggs given even the size of our entire country.

pretty sure we had a president that the "Only thing we have to fear... is fear itself." so solution... admit you were wrong with what you did and say we meant... perform stricter screenings for people entering from these areas of the world right now...... unfortunately Trump will never admit to a mistake... I wasn't a fan of Bush Jr., Was let down by Obama and Dems on what they could have pushed when they had the ability to, and am depressed that the choice we had was another Clinton and basically a tv celebrity

and if anyone fights about me with misogynistic with clinton..... my issue - since i've been born there was bush, clinton, bush, obama, (and then another clinton was the idea??? its messed up that we are supposedly a democratic society and we have two families always at the head of the table... Don't understand why the head democrats thought that putting their choice and hedging their bets on her as first female president would be a good idea... the Clintons have been investigated for years... too long a laundry list to make it through the election even when going up against a professional Conman


First let's get this straight - Islam is not an "ethnicity" - it's a system of beliefs, It's more like a system of government than even an ideology - and it's a dangerous one. If you need evidence as to what steps they take when in majority control, look to countries like Iran, Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan, et cetera. The travel ban isn't targeting any "ethnicity" because "Muslims" consist of every race on earth. You can have white Muslims, and black Muslims. You can have American Muslims, and you can have Icelandic Muslims. It's the system of belief and there's NOTHING wrong with controlling a system of belief that is so out of control that they justify murder and torture. Not just torture for information or something like that - torture simply for the pain, to teach a lesson - and to kill.

As far as the guys who couldn't get onto the plane right after the travel ban was initiated - are two guy's inconvenience worth the possible thousands if not millions of lives that not controlling entry to our country WILL eventually invite? If I was one of those guys - I would understand. I'd understand that even if I were US Military - that the world we live in is a very messed up place, and bad people literally run rampant over 80%+ of it, and that ANY nation that wishes to stay a nation, will control who resides in it. They eventually got to where they needed to be, did they not? They didn't get thrown in a cell to rot, or tossed into a mass grave - they're alive and well, and maybe a little annoyed. That is NOT a legitimate argument against a travel ban - they did their damn jobs.

Most of this kind of talk about what Trump "will do" stems from people's negative opinions of him that the Media and almost SOLELY the media designed - it's all "what if" or "he's a bad guy so he will do ____" - but on what grounds do people get to decide things like that when they know absolutely NOTHING about the diplomatic relations or the angle he will play? They don't KNOW. They never KNOW, they ASSUME. I'll be the first to tell you that assumptions make you look like an ASS, and I speak from experience because I'm guilty as hell too.

Go back 10, or 20 years, and watch Donald Trump's interviews. They ask him about being president back then as well, you know - and he didn't want to do it. He said that he thinks there are better people for the job - but that he will do it if no one steps up. Now is that time. It's the same reason people INSIST that he's some dumbass for every reason under the sun. He's OBVIOUSLY a very intelligent man - never mind his accomplishments, he's well spoken, he's no-BS and gets his way, and he absolutely plans things out before he does them. The media is in an UPROAR over his use of Twitter - and they try to make it sound so foolish of him to use it - have you ever asked yourself WHY it's so stupid? To hear the presidents thought's directly from him? and WHY the media would be upset about such a thing? the answer to that should be apparent too - they don't get a say, and they know his message will resonate with people who have been paying attention to what's happening in the US, and other countries.

...but no, because some figurehead says he's stupid, he must be an imbecile, right? A billionaire imbecile who won POTUS. Why with ANY amount of coaxing would someone believe something that outlandish?

You know, he'd have a tougher time, if everyone wasn't so busy underestimating him - but the way it is, he says things knowing the media and nay-sayers will jump all over it - so he can make an example of the topic or the people. It's happened how many times with the MSM now? Them falling into his traps and proving they're absolute BUFFOONS?

Honestly, it makes my head spin, how easily people accept character value judgments based off of someone they know nothing more of than access hollywood footage (edited, I might add) from two decades ago. I grew up being judged on absolute bullshit - and it's hard for me to watch this happen here as well, infuriating, really, that so many people blindly line up behind such stupid ideas when there's plenty of evidence to suggest the opposite of what we're constantly told.

As far as your last statement? They knew America was very susceptible to racism, sexism, and all the other ism's and that people in most civilized countries are terrified of being accused of - they put her as the candidate and saw to it that she would remain in the race because people would jump all over "the first female president in history" right after "the first black / colored president in history" left office. That's the only reason - the wikileaks emails show that her colleagues think she's a huge idiot and incompetent as hell - John Podesta has many not-so-nice things to say - almost as not-so-nice as the things Hillary had to say about the American people in those same wikileaks.
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Posted 6/3/17 , edited 6/4/17

Amyas_Leigh wrote:


gvblackmoon wrote:


Why would the Supreme Court hear it last time I heard both the 9th Circuit and 4th Circuit courts of appeal had ruled against it. Since there is no disagreement in the lower Courts there would be no reason for the Supreme Court to take up the case. Trump can ask all he likes the current rulings stand. No really the Supreme Court doesn't over turn stuff like this it would go against everything the Court has done before.




Did you see why they blocked it? They literally made up some BS about it violating the 1st Amendment.

This will get unblocked as soon as the Supreme Court sees it, because they're is nothing unconstitutional about it. Its completely within the president's power to bar groups of aliens from the country.



Mishio1 wrote:

He promised he would "kick out all the muslims." .


You have a big scoop there, I can't seem to find where he's said that anywhere on the internet. You should sell your info to the media and make big bucks!


Nope it isn't made up BS like folks keep believing this is an unconstitutional excursive order and they can use Trumps own words against which is what they did, this is on it's face a Muslim ban it flies in the face of the First amendment doesn't matter the number of countries on the list it matters is the verbiage used in setting it up. The President cooked his own goose by referring to this as a Muslim ban time and time again on the campaign trail if he hadn't and just done it he might be in a stronger position but the guy just and shut up.

Now what is actually going before the Supreme court is the injunction against the order not the order itself as such. So the question you have to ask is will they continue to uphold the induction against the order on those grounds they don't really have a reason not to since the lower Courts are in agreement. Trump might get one vote for sure but it really is guess work with some of the Justices. The liberal Justices will of course error on the side of the Constitution I suspect one to two conservative Justices will as well. Watch Kennedy and Roberts, Thomas is a guess on this one he tends to be strange on civil rights.

Oh as of tonight the President is still referring to it as a Muslim ban best of luck hiding that statement from the Supreme court. Just so you can read the bit that he is violating with that statement I will provide the First Amendment for your pleasure. "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances." The important bit is in red it also applies to the President.

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Posted 6/3/17 , edited 6/4/17
Trump did not say he is going to kick out all of the Muslims (though he probably wants to). He said "Donald J. Trump is calling for a total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the United States until our Country's representatives can figure what the hell is going on"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LRxozK6Bpvk

Targeting Muslims is the part that is unconstitutional.There is really no avoiding this travel ban being connected to these words.

I still don't understand the supporters here. He said the temporary ban would last 90 days to fix the vetting process. It is past that time. Did he directly lie to Americans? Why is it still needed?

Why do you guys live so fearful where you think we need a ban on Muslims? It has already been mentioned that the number of terrorist attacks from refugees in the countries in the ban total up to zero. Why do you still want it? Why don't we focus on local issues like murder rates and driving incidents....something that would actually prevent deaths of many Americans?
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Posted 6/4/17 , edited 6/4/17
AP3Brain

If you really think importing more Muslims into the United States is a good idea you have not been paying attention to what is going on.

But that's OK.

The ones you already have in your country will give you a reminder when the time comes.

Just like they did on 9/11.

Maybe you could hold a lit candle and sing "Imagine" when more of your fellow Americans get to enjoy the Religion of Pieces.

Assuming you and yours were not the ones in body bags...
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Posted 6/4/17 , edited 6/4/17
Oh good grief, I'm glad to see that someone who isn't able to live on their own legally is holding a "legal" opinion on something again.
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