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Post Reply Can free college educations and basic living stipends ever truly be justified?
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Posted 9/26/17 , edited 9/26/17
Probably the most ignored form of education here in the US is trade / vocational schools as a lot of people who are unprepared for college or would never graduate in the first place have been pushed into going to college instead of offering trade / vocational schooling instead. A lot of the positions in manufacturing (machine trades, welding and such), electrical, plumbing and a number of other well paying jobs go unfilled because few people are going into them and many currently in these fields are older and closer to retirement. I went through a vocational program during the last two years of high school and all I had to do was buy my equipment (mechanical drafting before computerized drafting was the norm).

If people want to go to college then the easiest way to get it paid for is getting an entry level gob for a company in the field they want to work in, most of them have tuition assistance or will pay for it completely so long as you keep your grades up but you have to work for the company for the same number of years it took to get your degree afterwards. There were a lot of people who got college degrees only to find out that they were worthless in the job market or that their degree never gave them the skills needed to actually do the job.
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Posted 9/26/17 , edited 9/26/17

Veladarius wrote:

Probably the most ignored form of education here in the US is trade / vocational schools as a lot of people who are unprepared for college or would never graduate in the first place have been pushed into going to college instead of offering trade / vocational schooling instead. A lot of the positions in manufacturing (machine trades, welding and such), electrical, plumbing and a number of other well paying jobs go unfilled because few people are going into them and many currently in these fields are older and closer to retirement. I went through a vocational program during the last two years of high school and all I had to do was buy my equipment (mechanical drafting before computerized drafting was the norm).

If people want to go to college then the easiest way to get it paid for is getting an entry level gob for a company in the field they want to work in, most of them have tuition assistance or will pay for it completely so long as you keep your grades up but you have to work for the company for the same number of years it took to get your degree afterwards. There were a lot of people who got college degrees only to find out that they were worthless in the job market or that their degree never gave them the skills needed to actually do the job.


Thanks for giving me a good lead into my thoughts.

So i do believe we could go into a lower to "free" cost of higher education. But i wouldn't do that as one would expect.

I would restructure the whole education system.
1-10ish grades would be like 1-12 currently functions.
The rest would be either going into vocational trading, or if with good enough grades you could opt into a higher degree path.

So for the average student, you would end up being trained into a vocational career path which is a consent need (paid by gov).
If you are above average, or gifted, or try really hard you can go onto a higher degree path. Doctor... and such.
Because you started a carrier path earlier, a 4 year degree would just a 2, as you already the first 2 (paid by gov) before.

My thoughts on this are based on my professional and work experience.
I listened to good talk once, that was discussing how the current grade school education is setup to train kids to go into a factory, (follow instructions, obey teacher = follow instructions, obey manager) . But that isn't the skill set that is valued into today's world.

My ideas aren't without examples, they are somewhat based on the UK education system.
https://www.internationalstudent.com/study_uk/education_system/

So to recap collage wouldn't be free, but you would be in a better position, and most people would get the "free" education they need.

For universal income, that would be hard.
It would be possible, but the whole planet would need to shift how we would handle and view money.

Think about the past, back before money we would trade items. (IE i need food, i have wood.
Ok i have wood, but need food lets trade...) That works, but has limitations.
So instead of actual items, people adapted to using money that has value in that you can trade it for actual items.
Over time that value changes, sometimes in favor of the money, but normally in the favor of the actual items.

Let me break down for everyone.
In the past i used to trade one rock for one log.
Someday i decided i wanted more rocks for a log.
So now i ask for two logs for every rock... lets say they do it.
OK so now i have valued rock and two logs,
Tell me did logs lose value or did rocks gain value? And how does this effect everyone that is dealing with the rock and log people?
If you had a lot of logs, how does this change what you can trade with?


Lets do this same concept.

Now still trade one rock for log, i sell them one rock for $2 and then they sell me one log for $2.
In the end we both end up with one item and $2 dollar. But wait its harder then that...What happens when we add tax in the item?
This wouldn't happen when we traded actual items, it could but would be hard. But now that we are using money so getting a cut is easy.

Ok same trade happens with $1 tax.
They start with $2 and 1 log, or rock

Now they sell
Rock person now has 1 log and $1 dollar
Log person now has 1 rock and $1 dollar.

People doing that tax now has $2 dollars.

In this example tell me did logs lose value or did rocks gain value?
How does the tax effect the situation, if the taxes increases or decrease what happens to the rock and log people?





Ok now the tax people are giving the trading people $1 every time they trade....

So this is the problem, money has a value that is set by everyone dealing with money.
Just giving everyone money how does this effect the rock and log person, how does this effect the tax people?

It seems to me lowering the tax would help the rock and log people.
But what if you don't have rock or log? How do you get the rock and log you need?
Do the tax people help you? How does this effect the rock and log people?
What if they are no rock and log people that started this whole process? What are we valuing money on?

This is a vary simplistic way of viewing the world, it has a lot more factors.

Hmmm
One way would be to split the money used to trade items and the money you used to buy items.
You can trade back and forth the money, at a rate fixed by the government.
The money you get from the government would be fixed.
While the money you get from trading would change over time.
I need to think about this...
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Posted 9/26/17 , edited 9/26/17
Honestly, I'm losing the ability to care.

I was raised on welfare in the projects. I dropped out of highschool.

I make 40k a year now. Paying out the ass in taxes. People want a better life. You give them an opportunity, and they will try to make a better life.
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Posted 9/26/17
Right now young people have way to much collective student loan dept to feed into the economy. Either a lot of people need to just not go to college, or college needs to be made affordable. And taxes would be cheaper than all of this debt. But of course taxes are also literally Satan...

If hard work succeeds 5% of the time and the answer to any suggestion of unfairness is "you lazy bum", it will continue to only work 5% of the time. People who do win out in the end can point at their own experience as "proof" regardless of how likely it really is. In poker good luck won't let you win, but bad luck is more than capable of doing the opposite.

It's certainly possible to have a society where luck plays next to no part, and people really do have equality of opportunity. We're not there yet in no small part people keep crying "socialism" every time a suggestion is made.
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Posted 9/26/17 , edited 9/26/17
Do you really believe there are FREE stuff in this world ?




thread reminded me of xxxholic episode with the monkey paw episode

xxxHOLiC (SUB) - 8 - Contract
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fM7PlRmCW2Y
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Posted 9/26/17
Free college mostly benefits the academics with otherwise useless liberal arts and fine arts degrees. Larger campuses and more "free" students (many of whom are simply trying to extend their adolescence) mean hiring more of them.


The college degree itself is declining in value. Once, a person could get a good job that provided a comfortable life for one's family with only a high school diploma. It is still possible, but many jobs that once did not require a degree now do only because so many people have them.
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Posted 9/26/17
Can slave labor from workers and educators become an acceptable practice to ensure lazy fucks dont have to stop being lazy?
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37 / M / Small Wooded town...
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Posted 9/26/17
Not until we get rid of the economic system. currency is a failed system that has failed over and over again.
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