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Post Reply While people are being bombed, stabbed, and run over in the UK the Police are busy monitoring internet speech
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Posted 6/11/17
I watched that donald duck gif far longer than I should have.... BTW I am calling on people to rise up and take arms. it's well within our second amendment as the government has become corrupt to the core. but this forum is full of NEETs so calling on it here is kinda moot.
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Posted 6/11/17
Well, yeah Rujikin. Why do you think they are doing this in the first place? People are scared. They want the police to prevent these crimes, these terrorist acts.


It is not surprising, honestly. There always been a contentious debate of liberty before safety and vice versa.
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Posted 6/11/17

Amyas_Leigh wrote:


sundin13 wrote:
While you may feel it is overreach to charge someone for "offensive speech", there are still plenty of valid reasons to "monitor internet speech", including helping to fight against terrorism.


What part of kicking in some grandma's door because she made an angry post about migrants crapping in the street on facebook "helps in the fight against terrorism"? Especially when every single one of these terrorists have been known to police and intelligence services, yet they only kick in terrorist's doors after people are killed.


You clearly didn't read my post.
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Posted 6/11/17
Not surprising in the least. I understand not wanting to give into fear and preserve equality and decency, but freedom and security are some things that should be improved in the UK.
Posted 6/11/17

MysticGon wrote:

Not surprising in the least. I understand not wanting to give into fear and preserve equality and decency, but freedom and security are some things that should be improved in the UK.


America isn't too far behind them in this sense. Both Republican and Democratic parties are focusing on ways to reduce the freedoms and liberties of the average citizen in order to "preserve security". The reality is that, at the end of the day, the reason why terrorism is "effective" is that the whole point of any of the attacks are to ensure that Western civilization shows hatred/discontent with the religion of Islam - to garner more support/reinforce their narrative and to slowly chip away at the freedom and liberties that Western civilization preaches about being "better at" (like allowing immigrants through security checks, freedom of speech, freedom of religion, etc).

I'd have to say that it's working pretty well considering MSM, independent media, polls, and the average mentality about Islam/Muslim in the West (even if you are liberal - the whole "white knighting" of the religion without dismissing the extremists ends up playing to the narrative they want to push anyways). Things like this (OP), though, have been around since 1998 (before the largest terrorist attack that hit America in 2001). Social media is just one of the outlets that police will accept any form of evidence from for potential criminal hate crimes/speech.
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Posted 6/11/17

ninjitsuko wrote:


MysticGon wrote:

Not surprising in the least. I understand not wanting to give into fear and preserve equality and decency, but freedom and security are some things that should be improved in the UK.


America isn't too far behind them in this sense. Both Republican and Democratic parties are focusing on ways to reduce the freedoms and liberties of the average citizen in order to "preserve security". The reality is that, at the end of the day, the reason why terrorism is "effective" is that the whole point of any of the attacks are to ensure that Western civilization shows hatred/discontent with the religion of Islam - to garner more support/reinforce their narrative and to slowly chip away at the freedom and liberties that Western civilization preaches about being "better at" (like allowing immigrants through security checks, freedom of speech, freedom of religion, etc).

I'd have to say that it's working pretty well considering MSM, independent media, polls, and the average mentality about Islam/Muslim in the West (even if you are liberal - the whole "white knighting" of the religion without dismissing the extremists ends up playing to the narrative they want to push anyways). Things like this (OP), though, have been around since 1998 (before the largest terrorist attack that hit America in 2001). Social media is just one of the outlets that police will accept any form of evidence from for potential criminal hate crimes/speech.


How much are you willing to give up to be safe? Privacy? Liberty? Dignity? Does naming your enemies work in your favor or play in their hands?

Let's say God forbid North Korea sells a nuke to a jihadi network. Would you give up every to stop them from using it?
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Posted 6/11/17

Rujikin wrote:

To me this is just insane... They are arresting people for doing nothing while they are having mass murdering sprees going on. Do you think its the police's job to monitor online speech or do you think they should stick to actual criminal investigations?

https://www.facebook.com/cheshirepolice/posts/10155546384464015


let me ask you this: is it a law? yes.

and lets say while some terrorists are currently doing terror things, i also do crime. is my crime still a crime? yes

just because petty theft isn't as bad as murdering children doesn't make petty theft ok.

police dont make the laws. they just enforce them, so follow the law and you'll be ok. the end
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Posted 6/11/17 , edited 6/11/17
So, if law enforcement doesn't monitor social media and something bad happens, 'They're not doing their job to catch criminals/terrorists!"

And if law enforcement does monitor social media they're interfering with 'muh freedoms!'.

Make up your minds.

Anything derogatory and inflammatory you post on social media is fair game for law enforcement and employers when determining if there is a potential for disruption. Law enforcement at least has to show a continuing pattern and a reasonable belief that something legally actionable has occurred. Employers aren't held to that standard.


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Posted 6/11/17

MrAnimeSK wrote:

You should be able to say whatever the fuck you want on line


no you shouldn't.

if i posted your personal info and your exact address and location right now, would that be ok?

if i said you were stalking me for months while making a fake account framing you of doing so, until the police get involved, is that ok?

if i said something in the lines of "you should kill yourself" or "im gonna find and kill you", would that be ok?

if i got a bunch of accounts and harassed you forcing you to close your social media accounts because of constant spam, would that be ok?

if i posted pictures of your house or place of work and said "im gonna get you for this" would that be ok?

i can go on and on and on on what shouldn't be posted. but theres reasons the police put the bar so low at 'offensive language' because anything above that could potentially get someone hurt.

i remember last week on twitter a girl said the N word, so some dude thought it be cool to post this girls address on twitter. the girl so happened to live less than 5 miles from me: walking distance. what if i was some crazy dude who was really offended by that and i had a gun or some weapon? yes i hate that word but i'd never hurt anyone over it but that person is lucky that it was me who lived close, not that crazy dude who i mentioned.... or say... a terrorist.

so no. you shouldn't be post whatever you want on the internet. and lets be honest. they're not arresting people who said "i hate islam"
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Posted 6/11/17

PeripheralVisionary wrote:

Well, yeah Rujikin. Why do you think they are doing this in the first place? People are scared. They want the police to prevent these crimes, these terrorist acts.


It is not surprising, honestly. There always been a contentious debate of liberty before safety and vice versa.


They aren't watching the people threatening this stuff. They are watching the people criticizing the people doing the crimes.
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Posted 6/11/17

b17bomber wrote:


MrAnimeSK wrote:

You should be able to say whatever the fuck you want on line


no you shouldn't.

if i posted your personal info and your exact address and location right now, would that be ok?

if i said you were stalking me for months while making a fake account framing you of doing so, until the police get involved, is that ok?

if i said something in the lines of "you should kill yourself" or "im gonna find and kill you", would that be ok?

if i got a bunch of accounts and harassed you forcing you to close your social media accounts because of constant spam, would that be ok?

if i posted pictures of your house or place of work and said "im gonna get you for this" would that be ok?

i can go on and on and on on what shouldn't be posted. but theres reasons the police put the bar so low at 'offensive language' because anything above that could potentially get someone hurt.

i remember last week on twitter a girl said the N word, so some dude thought it be cool to post this girls address on twitter. the girl so happened to live less than 5 miles from me: walking distance. what if i was some crazy dude who was really offended by that and i had a gun or some weapon? yes i hate that word but i'd never hurt anyone over it but that person is lucky that it was me who lived close, not that crazy dude who i mentioned.... or say... a terrorist.

so no. you shouldn't be post whatever you want on the internet. and lets be honest. they're not arresting people who said "i hate islam"


Or in another vein. Should we just leave ISIS propaganda and recruiting material online? Are twitter and facebook fucking up by going after these accounts? Maybe it's perfectly fine to leave bomb making guides online too. After all, you should be able to say/do whatever the fuck you want online.
Humms 
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Posted 6/11/17
Those who aren't fit to rule shall be overthrown by persistence of the unexpected.

Once we ignore what plays outside, it is only a matter of time before we accept it into our lives as tragic, when in reality it is pure stupidity.

once we all start to talk about it, we forget to actually solve the problem from our binding limitations of freedom. What is stopping them from doing it again, and again/

For all we know a child could drive a car into a building full of people. It makes no difference, because we are to stupid to do anything about it . Like standing in front of a moving vehicle without hesitation. Is someone really going to run you over? Is someone really going to shoot you? Stab you? We are so trusting of others that we forget the tools and machines all readily available to everyone are at our fingertips, being controlled by the touch of a button. A killing machine/device ready to use at a moments notice.

Yet we never learn from it. To accept it in our lives as news, something to talk about across the dinner table with family, at work with fellow workers, waiting for a bus not driven by a person, are we still safe? The world knows best for your safety, the regulations, but yet people do not listen to their own kind. Whats left for us to do, how do you teach the unteachable? how do you prevent the inevitable? What measures does the world have to take to finally realize that safety begins with trusting your fellow man/woman, to watch out after one another. Why does killing people have to be an idea for people? It doesn't teach us about solutions, only pain.

And so is the result of freedom
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Posted 6/11/17 , edited 6/11/17

Rujikin wrote:

They aren't watching the people threatening this stuff. They are watching the people criticizing the people doing the crimes.


How does doing the latter indicate they arn't also doing the former? What's stopping them from doing both? This is assuming, of course, that it is the police's job to actively seek out terrorists beyond their usual activities and responsibilities, and not some other more specialized agency.
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Posted 6/11/17

rawratl wrote:Or in another vein. Should we just leave ISIS propaganda and recruiting material online? Are twitter and facebook fucking up by going after these accounts? Maybe it's perfectly fine to leave bomb making guides online too. After all, you should be able to say/do whatever the fuck you want online.


you could try, but that would be ineffective at best. criminals would just choose a different means of spreading their propaganda. if they can't use twitter or facebook, they'll use something else. and of course, if piracy is any indication, you can't completely stop people from spreading content you find objectionable. UK could try to seize the servers in the UK, but there's nothing they can do if the servers are in a different country - especially when said country is not willing to cooperate with the UK authorities.

i remember reading how Google is trying to fight propaganda not through censorship, but by providing counter-videos, with accounts from people who actually joined the terror group and regretted afterwards. real account from real people to dispel any myths from the propaganda videos. as an example, instead of trying to take down every "moon land hoax" video and sites ever made, it's like making an official scientifically-sound explanation as to why moon land actually happened in a way that eliminates the myth from the hoax videos.
you fight propaganda not through censorship, but through information and education, something Google understands very well.
runec 
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Posted 6/11/17 , edited 6/11/17
This entire thread is posited on the assumption that the police are incapable of doing more than one thing at once. And that one thing is Twitter.

I'm pretty sure the Cheshire Police are capable of multitasking.



Amyas_Leigh wrote:
What part of kicking in some grandma's door because she made an angry post about migrants crapping in the street on facebook "helps in the fight against terrorism"?


Your collage skills continue to improve. Have you considered taking up scrapbooking? -.-

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