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Post Reply puerto rico votes sunday on whether or not they become a state
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Posted 6/11/17 , edited 6/11/17

ran76 wrote:

do the same with the Red States, then talk


We certainly could but that would be VERY problematic as the red states make up the majority of the US. At this particular time the Red states with the highest debt also happen to be the states that produce massive amounts of food for the US. Though if you were going at it from a finger pointing angle... then we should also look at highest debt ratio states. Most of the say... top 10 highest debt states are blue.
http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/compare_state_debt_bubble_chart_2017pH0Cn

Personally I have no issue with Puerto Rico becoming a state. My only concern would be the Puerto Rican govt would get statehood file for bankruptcy and then vote for an exit in 4-10years. Also consider that Puerto Rico doesn't pay taxes to the US govt. rather it pays taxes to its own commonwealth. Not sure their fragile economy could handle US taxes possible being stacked on top of their current tax system(which is almost a mimic). Another issue is Puerto Rico is suffering from "Brain Drain" to the continental US. Becoming a state will not encourage this to stop. What needs to happen is investors and corporations to invest and build in Puerto Rico. Becoming a state seems to me like it would only offer a stop gap measure, not really any long term solutions. However, since its unlikely politicians will explain their true motives all of this is just subjective.

To the comment about language being changed to English I guess i would ask why they would change? The US currently has no national language so the entire territory could speak Chinese and it wouldn't matter one bit. Well other then Puerto Rico would lose its national language...
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Posted 6/11/17 , edited 6/11/17

DevinKuska wrote:


ran76 wrote:

do the same with the Red States, then talk


We certainly could but that would be VERY problematic as the red states make up the majority of the US. At this particular time the Red states with the highest debt also happen to be the states that produce massive amounts of food for the US. Though if you were going at it from a finger pointing angle... then we should also look at highest debt ratio states. Most of the say... top 10 highest debt states are blue.
http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/compare_state_debt_bubble_chart_2017pH0Cn

Personally I have no issue with Puerto Rico becoming a state. My only concern would be the Puerto Rican govt would get statehood file for bankruptcy and then vote for an exit in 4-10years. Also consider that Puerto Rico doesn't pay taxes to the US govt. rather it pays taxes to its own commonwealth. Not sure their fragile economy could handle US taxes possible being stacked on top of their current tax system(which is almost a mimic). Another issue is Puerto Rico is suffering from "Brain Drain" to the continental US. Becoming a state will not encourage this to stop. What needs to happen is investors and corporations to invest and build in Puerto Rico. Becoming a state seems to me like it would only offer a stop gap measure, not really any long term solutions. However, since its unlikely politicians will explain their true motives all of this is just subjective.

To the comment about language being changed to English I guess i would ask why they would change? The US currently has no national language so the entire territory could speak Chinese and it wouldn't matter one bit. Well other then Puerto Rico would lose its national language...


are you kidding? the national language is American English, its always been English , until south americans started coming in en masse and changing the demographics

that doesn't mean we don't have a national language'
and if the language changed to Chinese it WOULD matter because only about 1 percent of the population speaks it.....gee I wonder why lol, because American English is the majority language spoken here
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Posted 6/11/17

redokami wrote:

are you kidding? the national language is American English, its always been English , until south americans started coming in en masse and changing the demographics

that doesn't mean we don't have a national language'
and if the language changed to Chinese it WOULD matter because only about 1 percent of the population speaks it.....gee I wonder why lol, because American English is the majority language spoken here


America does not have an 'official' language or we would not need https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-congress/house-bill/997/text . This is only the latest such bill, all previous ones were voted down.
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Posted 6/11/17 , edited 6/11/17

redokami wrote:

are you kidding? the national language is American English, its always been English , until south americans started coming in en masse and changing the demographics

that doesn't mean we don't have a national language'
and if the language changed to Chinese it WOULD matter because only about 1 percent of the population speaks it.....gee I wonder why lol, because American English is the majority language spoken here


Unfortunately it is not https://usconstitution.net/consttop_lang.html . One would think that since the vast majority of the US does in fact use English that it would be as such. However that is not the case. Every time there has been an attempt to make a national language it has failed in house and senate during each binding vote. However English has been adopted in non binding(read "doesn't count/matter) votes. go figure right?

My reference about speaking Chinese was about Puerto Rico, thus I specifically said TERRITORY. My point was Puerto Rico can have a national language of Chinese and it would not matter to the US one iota. With the exception of if they became the 51st state they would de facto lose their national language.
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Posted 6/11/17 , edited 6/11/17

DevinKuska wrote:


redokami wrote:

are you kidding? the national language is American English, its always been English , until south americans started coming in en masse and changing the demographics

that doesn't mean we don't have a national language'
and if the language changed to Chinese it WOULD matter because only about 1 percent of the population speaks it.....gee I wonder why lol, because American English is the majority language spoken here


Unfortunately it is not https://usconstitution.net/consttop_lang.html . One would think that since the vast majority of the US does in fact use English that it would be as such. However that is not the case. Every time there has been an attempt to make a national language it has failed in house and senate during each binding vote. However English has been adopted in non binding(read "doesn't count/matter) votes. go figure right?

My reference about speaking Chinese was about Puerto Rico, thus I specifically said TERRITORY. My point was Puerto Rico can have a national language of Chinese and it would not matter to the US one iota. With the exception of if they became the 51st state they would de facto lose their national language.


then I stand corrected


that is stupid, in ref tous not having a national language fuckign government technicalities and legalities
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Posted 6/11/17 , edited 6/11/17
I would suggest watching Oliver's piece on this for some background:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tt-mpuR_QHQ



karatecowboy wrote:
So we're just going to let Mexicans decide if they want to be Americans or something?


This may come as a staggering shock to you, but the entire world south of Texas is not all Mexico.
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Posted 6/11/17

runec wrote:


This may come as a staggering shock to you, but the entire world south of Texas is not all Mexico.


LMAO well played sir/maam... well played!
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Posted 6/11/17

AppleFart wrote:

Typical of liberals to blame capitalism... American companies left PR due to high taxes and restrictions placed on them by the government. Capitalism raised the USA from nothing, to the most powerful country in the world in 200 short years. Something that countries like China and others have been trying to accomplish for thousands. Capitalism is what brought us the innovations that we enjoy today. The fact that people can bash it, after gaining so much around the world is why I must consider liberalism to be a brain disorder instead of an ideology.



That has more to do with the vast land and resource that is unexploited in US history along with the diversy and democracy which allow innovation; it is not due to Capitalism. The Native Americans did stop the European Americans from hoarding the land but the European Americans eventually force all Native Americans into concentration camps. This was not mentioned in history class but the first concentration camps was built in US for this reason.
US did arise from the two world wars as a superpower but that is due to exploitation by Capitalism in the former European colonies. The US has a mixed economy during the Cold War but they use Capitalism in the third world to support puppet governments and conduct illegal activities. I also heard that the puppet governments are the US fanatics who glory US and support immigration to US; most of the third world citizens actually oppose US culture and do not have a positive view toward US people in contrary to the press.
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Posted 6/11/17

DevinKuska wrote:


ran76 wrote:

do the same with the Red States, then talk


We certainly could but that would be VERY problematic as the red states make up the majority of the US. At this particular time the Red states with the highest debt also happen to be the states that produce massive amounts of food for the US. Though if you were going at it from a finger pointing angle... then we should also look at highest debt ratio states. Most of the say... top 10 highest debt states are blue.
http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/compare_state_debt_bubble_chart_2017pH0Cn

Personally I have no issue with Puerto Rico becoming a state. My only concern would be the Puerto Rican govt would get statehood file for bankruptcy and then vote for an exit in 4-10years. Also consider that Puerto Rico doesn't pay taxes to the US govt. rather it pays taxes to its own commonwealth. Not sure their fragile economy could handle US taxes possible being stacked on top of their current tax system(which is almost a mimic). Another issue is Puerto Rico is suffering from "Brain Drain" to the continental US. Becoming a state will not encourage this to stop. What needs to happen is investors and corporations to invest and build in Puerto Rico. Becoming a state seems to me like it would only offer a stop gap measure, not really any long term solutions. However, since its unlikely politicians will explain their true motives all of this is just subjective.

To the comment about language being changed to English I guess i would ask why they would change? The US currently has no national language so the entire territory could speak Chinese and it wouldn't matter one bit. Well other then Puerto Rico would lose its national language...


it really depends on the company the individual works for. if they work for a company based in the US they pay federal taxes. Then again if PR becomes a State they will all most likely pay federal taxes as well, so that argument is kinda moot
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Posted 6/11/17

AppleFart wrote:

Typical of liberals to blame capitalism... American companies left PR due to high taxes and restrictions placed on them by the government. Capitalism raised the USA from nothing, to the most powerful country in the world in 200 short years. Something that countries like China and others have been trying to accomplish for thousands. Capitalism is what brought us the innovations that we enjoy today. The fact that people can bash it, after gaining so much around the world is why I must consider liberalism to be a brain disorder instead of an ideology.



You do mean the US government right? Refer to runec's video. I still don't think you understand what's going on, but that doesn't surprise me in the least either.
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Posted 6/11/17

rawratl wrote:

You do mean the US government right? Refer to runec's video. I still don't think you understand what's going on, but that doesn't surprise me in the least either.


I am not trying to trigger you when I ask did you watch the video? Puerto Rico tried to cash in on tax incentives the US developed to try to help Puerto Rico grow. History tells us all tax breaks eventually get reworked or flat out removed. Puerto Rico's issue is they got addicted on short term flashy tax breaks and projects(that's almost a quote from their own prime minster in the video). From the video it would seem "PR's" largest issue came from selling bonds. Now I am not privy to the details but I would be willing to bet "PR" knew when they were selling them that they would eventually reach a point of no return. However whomever decided to keep on selling. When the bubble popped "PR" had not a lot to show for it.
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Posted 6/11/17
Awwww they voted for statehood... what a surprise! Parasites. Hopefully congress will tell them to go pound sand.
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Posted 6/11/17
This territory has never voted to be a state why would this election be any different? Hello those from our territory what do you think? I personally think it would be great to say I was alive when a new state came into the union....but probably not going to happen.
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Posted 6/11/17 , edited 6/11/17

DevinKuska wrote:


rawratl wrote:

You do mean the US government right? Refer to runec's video. I still don't think you understand what's going on, but that doesn't surprise me in the least either.


I am not trying to trigger you when I ask did you watch the video? Puerto Rico tried to cash in on tax incentives the US developed to try to help Puerto Rico grow. History tells us all tax breaks eventually get reworked or flat out removed. Puerto Rico's issue is they got addicted on short term flashy tax breaks and projects(that's almost a quote from their own prime minster in the video). From the video it would seem "PR's" largest issue came from selling bonds. Now I am not privy to the details but I would be willing to bet "PR" knew when they were selling them that they would eventually reach a point of no return. However whomever decided to keep on selling. When the bubble popped "PR" had not a lot to show for it.


It was a perfect storm setup by the American government no matter how you look at it. History may tell you that tax breaks get reworked or removed but when your entire economy is built on industry and manufacturing and then the government gives you the big "fuck you" all at once you can't do anything about it. Especially when it was combined with the recession of the US economy.

In regards to the bonds they literally had no other choice but to issue the bonds to cover their debt. I think the video touches on the fact that due to legislation in 1984 (I think) Puerto Rico can not file for chapter 9 bankruptcy. If you'll recall, Chapter 9 saved Detroit, whose debt was much smaller at 18 billion, but alas Puerto Rico has no such ability. So they have no choice but to try to find ways to cover the debt via the bonds, which predatory hedge funds are purchasing and suing for payouts when they can't be made (which they fully knew going in, but they get them cheap so there is virtually no risk and everything to gain.) Admittedly it was really dumb to state that bond holders would be paid before they would even pay for government services, that there genuinely is no excuse for.
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Posted 6/11/17

AppleFart wrote:

Awwww they voted for statehood... what a surprise! Parasites. Hopefully congress will tell them to go pound sand.


Most likely it is going to get rejected.
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