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Post Reply Gunfire at GOP Baseball Practice in Alexandria
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Posted 6/14/17
So far we are at I think four bans. I think the shortest one was for one month. Would anyone else like to attempt to turn this into a troll thread or flamebait?

Please change your mind and move on instead.
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Posted 6/14/17 , edited 6/14/17
Some rather selective memories in this thread.

Also, is it wrong that as soon as I saw this on the news I knew exactly what the reaction/talking points would be for whatever skin colour the shooter turned out to have? -.-

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Posted 6/14/17 , edited 6/14/17
That shooter is a lunatic and what he did was very wrong. I'm glad there are no fatalities.

Just to point out to some here, in Obama's second term, someone wielding a knife got past the gate at the white house and tried to storm it, but he failed in his attempt to harm anyone. There was also a man (during Obama's second term) who planned to drive across states to get to the white house, and he had semi-automatic rifles in his vehicle, and he planned an attack, but he was apprehended by the FBI. This shooter wasn't the first of his kind in the last several years.
Posted 6/14/17 , edited 6/14/17

runec wrote:

Some rather selective memories in this thread.

Also, is it wrong that as soon as I saw this on the news I knew exactly what the reaction/talking points would be for whatever skin colour the shooter turned out to have? -.-

Has anyone mentioned the play yet? I bet at least one Republican has mentioned the play.

....Yep, looks like Jr did.


Funny I had no idea what you're talking about until I googled it and I can say absolutely crap like that plays a role in radicalizing individuals.
Edit
But its not just that.
The media has been calling Trump and republicans that support him literally Hitler for months, saying he's going to be impeached etc. It was only a matter of time before someone who has waited hearing this BS to take matters into their own hands.
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Posted 6/14/17

Nalaniel wrote:

I have a feeling that this thread will turn into a "liberals are evil" circle jerk.


It goes both ways. Whoever is wronged in a particular instance always takes advantage of the opportunity to demonize the other side.
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Posted 6/14/17
Today I learned they is such thing as 'congressional baseball practice'... hope everyone is okay though.
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Posted 6/14/17

runec wrote:


MysticGon wrote:
It's like terrorism in my view. It's not getting worse(by raw numbers), just more frantically covered by journalists.

With the political split pretty much equal you'll always have some of your constituents who hate your guts and want nothing more than your downfall. The rest that voted you into office will be happy if you follow your campaign promises. That's not new. Getting yelled at by people from the other party is not new. Obama gave democrats a lot to be excited for, Trump did the same for republicans. Coming off the Bush/Clinton era people from both sides see new beginnings.


I think prior to Trump I would agree with you, but Trump is really uncharted territory for America and is basically the end result of the GOP taking the "Tea party" approach to their politics for the last however many years. When you tell people over and over that the other party is Super Hitler here to destroy America you can't be surprised when they start to believe you then vote people into office who believe you. So you end up with shit like the Freedom Caucus.

I mean, there has never been a president in my lifetime where I had to legitimately worry that he had no idea what he was doing with the most basic functions of government. Or that he would cause an international incident not over a political disagreement but just over a personal slight or lack of understanding of a situation.

I may not have liked Romney much, but I never doubted he couldn't do the job of president. I certainly didn't like Bush, but I never had to worry he would cause an international incident out of simple malice or arrogance. I didn't doubt that either was on some level doing what they believed was right.

With Trump, nothing else comes before Trump. Not party nor country.

I am not even a Republican and yet I have respect for a lot of what he is doing. Cutting both section 8 in the leeches, and welfare was first step to making America great. He also did a lot of dealing to bring in more work into are country. So to me he has already done more good then I expected from a republican.

Stocks are up, jobs are up, economy is starting to grow.
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Posted 6/14/17 , edited 6/14/17

Amyas_Leigh wrote:
Funny I had no idea what you're talking about until I googled it and I can say absolutely crap like that plays a role in radicalizing individuals


Did you Google it long enough to learn that the point of the play is that political violence is wrong and the play uses the likeness of the current president? So it was Obama last year and no one batted an eyelash?

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Posted 6/14/17 , edited 6/14/17

Darkphoenix3450 wrote:


runec wrote:


MysticGon wrote:
It's like terrorism in my view. It's not getting worse(by raw numbers), just more frantically covered by journalists.

With the political split pretty much equal you'll always have some of your constituents who hate your guts and want nothing more than your downfall. The rest that voted you into office will be happy if you follow your campaign promises. That's not new. Getting yelled at by people from the other party is not new. Obama gave democrats a lot to be excited for, Trump did the same for republicans. Coming off the Bush/Clinton era people from both sides see new beginnings.


I think prior to Trump I would agree with you, but Trump is really uncharted territory for America and is basically the end result of the GOP taking the "Tea party" approach to their politics for the last however many years. When you tell people over and over that the other party is Super Hitler here to destroy America you can't be surprised when they start to believe you then vote people into office who believe you. So you end up with shit like the Freedom Caucus.

I mean, there has never been a president in my lifetime where I had to legitimately worry that he had no idea what he was doing with the most basic functions of government. Or that he would cause an international incident not over a political disagreement but just over a personal slight or lack of understanding of a situation.

I may not have liked Romney much, but I never doubted he couldn't do the job of president. I certainly didn't like Bush, but I never had to worry he would cause an international incident out of simple malice or arrogance. I didn't doubt that either was on some level doing what they believed was right.

With Trump, nothing else comes before Trump. Not party nor country.

I am not even a Republican and yet I have respect for a lot of what he is doing. Cutting both section 8 in the leeches, and welfare was first step to making America great. He also did a lot of dealing to bring in more work into are country. So to me he has already done more good then I expected from a republican.

Stocks are up, jobs are up, economy is starting to grow.


How do we define greatness?

It is a subjective statement. But I dare you look at countries historically and compare economies and personal freedoms. America has been pretty great when it's all said and done. As a country, we've always laid down steady progression, rarely digression. And we have a creed that all humans tend to agree with.

Secondly, jobs and the economy started growing shortly after Obama took office so I don't know what your point is. Also, the economic policy that is creating that growth was laid down last year by Obama. You won't see Trumps economic impact till next year.

---

On topic: Senseless violence has never solved anything. It only covers up things and divides them. Whoever did this is about as stupid and as selfish as they come. I hope we somehow don't let this incident divide us.
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Posted 6/14/17 , edited 6/14/17

runec wrote:

Right, no one lost their shit for a week because he bowed when meeting the Saudi King ( including Trump ) or criticized him for using dijon mustard. Or for daring to use a paper clip. Fox certainly didn't criticize him for putting his feet up on the desk in the Oval Office.


While the feet on the resolute desk was a silly thing to complain about, and the dijon mustard and paper clip things sound dubious to me, Obama bowing from the hip to foreign leaders was a pretty much unprecedented thing. U.S. President's don't bow like that to foreign rulers, it's kind of the point. That he did it to Saudi Arabia is rather ironic since the Saudi's had been a Democrat bogeyman during the Bush years.

You also mention Fox, the same network Obama tried to ban from the press pool. Even while every other news networks were acting like Obama was the 2nd coming of Christ (replete with halo imagery for most pictures). "Perfect pants crease" - David Frum, "Thrill up my leg" - Christ Mathews, ect, ect.


runec wrote:

I think prior to Trump I would agree with you, but Trump is really uncharted territory for America and is basically the end result of the GOP taking the "Tea party" approach to their politics for the last however many years. When you tell people over and over that the other party is Super Hitler here to destroy America you can't be surprised when they start to believe you then vote people into office who believe you. So you end up with shit like the Freedom Caucus.


I find this rather odd to unpack. The Tea Party approach to politics has been to elect representatives into office. They've been extremely successfull in that regard. I don't know any instances where Tea Party members have accused Obama or the left of being "Super Hitler" though ANTIFA and several Democrats seems to accuse Trump of this daily. The main complaint of Tea Party members have is the socialism of the current Democrat party. The death of the "Blue Dog Democrats" was proof enough of that. "Punch a Fascist" is a recent thing from the left ironically enough. And "All within the state, nothing outside the state, nothing against the state." to quote an actual Fascist seems more Democrat than Tea Party to me.


runec wrote

I mean, there has never been a president in my lifetime where I had to legitimately worry that he had no idea what he was doing with the most basic functions of government. Or that he would cause an international incident not over a political disagreement but just over a personal slight or lack of understanding of a situation.


Were you really paying attention during the Obama years? Dude was rife with personal pettiness. Returning the Churchill bust, constantly dissing Israels PM and trying to influence their elections. Making the Dalai Lama leave through the backdoor of the WH among trash. A small list of what he did to our allies! What he did to Libya, Iraq, ect, is a goddamn travesty.

This thread though, is about a psycho who attacked a practice game for Republican Congressmen. With the express desire to kill Republican Congressmen. I hope Democrats realizes how much hate they're causing by calling Republicans Nazi's. Or you might get another Bernie Bro going on a rampage.
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Posted 6/14/17
At any rate politics has always been a dangerous profession. Wasn't the first, won't be the last. Politicians of all stripes have met their end doing what they believe is the right thing to do.
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Posted 6/14/17
Why was my current responses to Runec posted before their comments from 3+ hours ago? o.O
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Posted 6/14/17

Kelgair wrote:

Why was my current responses to Runec posted before their comments from 3+ hours ago? o.O


The database or whatever gets the posting order confused after mods delete posts from a thread. It's been an ongoing issue for a little while now.
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Posted 6/14/17 , edited 6/14/17

MysticGon wrote:
At any rate politics has always been a dangerous profession. Wasn't the first, won't be the last. Politicians of all stripes have met their end doing what they believe is the right thing to do.


True, but the decade long march towards hyper-partisan polarization in the US coupled with the complete disconnect between representatives and their constituents really isn't helping the problem.

The election of Trump is basically just all of it finally coming to a head.
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Posted 6/14/17

Mishio1 wrote:


Kelgair wrote:

Why was my current responses to Runec posted before their comments from 3+ hours ago? o.O


The database or whatever gets the posting order confused after mods delete posts from a thread. It's been an ongoing issue for a little while now.


Ahhh, ty ty.
Posted 6/14/17 , edited 6/14/17

runec wrote:

There were several plots against Obama as well. Shots were taken at the White House while Obama was in office too.







That's what I was talking about
Also there is a reason I said 'near the same level as' or something to that effect. Just Fox reporting on Obama gaffs isn't the same as nearly every single outlet pushing stories about how Trump deleting a typo'd tweet is unconstitutional and deserving of impeachment.

On topic, Scalise is now in critical condition last I heard. And the dem whip threw a pizza party for Scalise's staff members.

Edit: Also turns out two months ago a NYT article gave out the information about where the congressional baseball training was taking place
The shooter moved to that area two months ago and lived out of his van.

Posted 6/14/17 , edited 6/14/17

runec wrote:
Did you Google it long enough to learn that the point of the play is that political violence is wrong and the play uses the likeness of the current president? So it was Obama last year and no one batted an eyelash?


Did Obama ever have someone rush the stage or grab an officer's gun in an effort to kill him? There were a couple plots and one guy taking potshots at the WH when he wasn't even there, nothing as direct as the attempts on Trump's life. Obama also didn't have this level of constant coverage and manufactured outrage about literally every little thing he did.
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Posted 6/14/17
We have learned to view people who disagree with us on politics as monsters instead of humans. We even defend treating people this way when we argue on the internet. And we are incapable of seeing this in ourselves, or of introspection in general. We no longer believe in universal worth; instead we are utilitarian: we allow ourselves to make the excuse that, since this or that person does, believes in, or supports this or that "bad" thing, we are justified in valuing them less, reducing our sympathy, and assuming that that one "bad" thing is indicative of all the other bad things out there, too.

If you can't comprehend that the people who hold political beliefs different from yours can do so for good and honorable reasons, and want what's best for everyone, then you are probably far too susceptible to irrationality and anger to be able to think sensibly about politics. Not to mention that you have an incredibly naive view of humanity and ought to spend a lot of time educating yourself before you say another word. Read some of Plato's dialogues, maybe.
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Posted 6/14/17

runec wrote:


MysticGon wrote:
At any rate politics has always been a dangerous profession. Wasn't the first, won't be the last. Politicians of all stripes have met their end doing what they believe is the right thing to do.


True, but the decade long march towards hyper-partisan polarization in the US coupled with the complete disconnect between representatives and their constituents really isn't helping the problem.

The election of Trump is basically just all of it finally coming to a head.


It's like terrorism in my view. It's not getting worse(by raw numbers), just more frantically covered by journalists.

With the political split pretty much equal you'll always have some of your constituents who hate your guts and want nothing more than your downfall. The rest that voted you into office will be happy if you follow your campaign promises. That's not new. Getting yelled at by people from the other party is not new. Obama gave democrats a lot to be excited for, Trump did the same for republicans. Coming off the Bush/Clinton era people from both sides see new beginnings.
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Posted 6/14/17

Amyas_Leigh wrote:
That's what I was talking about
Also there is a reason I said 'near the same level as' or something to that effect. Just Fox reporting on Obama gaffs isn't the same as nearly every single outlet pushing stories about how Trump deleting a typo'd tweet is unconstitutional and deserving of impeachment.

On topic, Scalise is now in critical condition last I heard. And the dem whip threw a pizza party for Scalise's staff members.

Edit: Also turns out two months ago a NYT article gave out the information about where the congressional baseball training was taking place
The shooter moved to that area two months ago and lived out of his van.


.....who was pushing impeachment over a deleted Tweet. There is a concern over how to properly record social media for the National Archives but I don't recall seeing "every single outlet" pushing for impeachment over covfefe.

Shit, they downgraded him? He was at least stable last I heard as he got hit in the hip.

This guy better not be Known To The Police(tm) but they didn't think it was important to note when he moved to another state and started living out of a van with a rifle.
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Posted 6/14/17 , edited 6/14/17

Amyas_Leigh wrote:
Did Obama ever have someone rush the stage or grab an officer's gun in an effort to kill him?


That was unusual, but it was also a dude from Britain with severe mental illness who despite being mentally ill on an expired Visa was still allowed to rent firearms and train to shoot. Trump didn't even realize the guy wanted to kill him until later.

As for rushing the stage; The guy that rushed the stage intended to spit on Trump, not kill him. Also, someone rushed the stage on Clinton the day after Trump made his "Second Amendment people can do something about it" comment about her. Unlike Trump, Clinton wasn't even phased enough to stop her speech. ;p

Sanders had 4 people rush the stage on him.



Amyas_Leigh wrote:There were a couple plots and one guy taking potshots at the WH when he wasn't even there, nothing as direct as the attempts on Trump's life.


There were several plots against Obama as well. Shots were taken at the White House while Obama was in office too. Shots were also fired at the White House when Bush was in office and when Clinton was in office.




Amyas_Leigh wrote:
Obama also didn't have this level of constant coverage and manufactured outrage about literally every little thing he did.


Right, no one lost their shit for a week because he bowed when meeting the Saudi King ( including Trump ) or criticized him for using dijon mustard. Or for daring to use a paper clip. Fox certainly didn't criticize him for putting his feet up on the desk in the Oval Office.


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Posted 6/14/17

auroraloose wrote:

We have learned to view people who disagree with us on politics as monsters instead of humans. We even defend treating people this way when we argue on the internet. And we are incapable of seeing this in ourselves, or of introspection in general. We no longer believe in universal worth; instead we are utilitarian: we allow ourselves to make the excuse that, since this or that person does, believes in, or supports this or that "bad" thing, we are justified in valuing them less, reducing our sympathy, and assuming that that one "bad" thing is indicative of all the other bad things out there, too.

If you can't comprehend that the people who hold political beliefs different from yours can do so for good and honorable reasons, and want what's best for everyone, then you are probably far too susceptible to irrationality and anger to be able to think sensibly about politics. Not to mention that you have an incredibly naive view of humanity and ought to spend a lot of time educating yourself before you say another word. Read some of Plato's dialogues, maybe.


The point where someone legit feels that The Other Side™ is monstrous, spineless, or otherwise not worth talking to is the point a person is better served weening themselves off of the 24/7 news cycle. It's one thing to consider political rhetoric, it's another thing entirely to become it.
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Posted 6/14/17 , edited 6/14/17

MysticGon wrote:
It's like terrorism in my view. It's not getting worse(by raw numbers), just more frantically covered by journalists.

With the political split pretty much equal you'll always have some of your constituents who hate your guts and want nothing more than your downfall. The rest that voted you into office will be happy if you follow your campaign promises. That's not new. Getting yelled at by people from the other party is not new. Obama gave democrats a lot to be excited for, Trump did the same for republicans. Coming off the Bush/Clinton era people from both sides see new beginnings.


I think prior to Trump I would agree with you, but Trump is really uncharted territory for America and is basically the end result of the GOP taking the "Tea party" approach to their politics for the last however many years. When you tell people over and over that the other party is Super Hitler here to destroy America you can't be surprised when they start to believe you then vote people into office who believe you. So you end up with shit like the Freedom Caucus.

I mean, there has never been a president in my lifetime where I had to legitimately worry that he had no idea what he was doing with the most basic functions of government. Or that he would cause an international incident not over a political disagreement but just over a personal slight or lack of understanding of a situation.

I may not have liked Romney much, but I never doubted he couldn't do the job of president. I certainly didn't like Bush, but I never had to worry he would cause an international incident out of simple malice or arrogance. I didn't doubt that either was on some level doing what they believed was right.

With Trump, nothing else comes before Trump. Not party nor country.
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Posted 6/14/17 , edited 6/15/17

Rujikin
We have got to stop this whole "TRUMP IS EVIL! HE IS HITLER!!! HE SHOULD BE KILLED!!!!" nonsense. It's going to lead to more shit like this.


I agree. The fear is unwarranted unless you are an illegal immigrant or a member of ISIS. The 4-8 years will be over before you know it. The hyperbole that gets ratings also sends lunatics like this man over the edge.
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