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Post Reply lady has mental breakdown over confederate flag
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runec wrote:


serifsansserif wrote:
And as for it not being a shakedown in the first video I posted, I mention the overwhelming odds in their favor, the verbal tone, and aggressive behavior, (though yes, no actual violence), and this is EXACTLY what the woman in the first video is claiming is so wrong and offensive... A FUCKING FLAG. A symbol of speech.

The arguments go both ways. This is exactly what has made me disassociate with liberalism. If you're going to fight the good fight, stay on the moral high ground. Don't use the same god damned tactics you're claiming the other side cannot use.


I'm not seeing much of a connection between a group responding to a teenager getting assaulted and choked and some random woman getting offended by a Confederate flag.

This isn't a "liberal" issue. There would be an uproar regardless if x race choked out a girl from y race in a predominately y community. And don't tell me you wouldn't get a response in some areas of the US if a store hung some Pride flags.

And don't bring speech into this because said lady had equal right to exercise hers.


I come from a town of about 2000 people where literally every store hung pride flags outside of their buildings for a week in celebration of a local pride event.. One where our "parade" was so damned tiny the only indication of an event was the damned flags...

It's a liberal dot inside a VERY conservative county in a liberal state.

And we get the asshole with their loud ass monster sized trucks without mufflers and waving confederate flags in equal measure...

*shrugs*

I also know where I said I was voting Green Party instead of Hilary because I could not morally justify either side I was attacked and pretty much lost my more liberal friends for saying such. The amount of shaming they tried to pull on me... oooof... Honestly, I was getting pretty damned terrified of being around it and how I either felt like if I agreed in principle on some things, they felt I MUST believe in it all or else i was a neonazi hatemonger...

I also got the same reaction once for trying to open up a discussion on transgender here where I would default to our actual transgender members responses as a matter of advocating their experiences, and it was the LIBERAL portion of the boards that felt the need to correct me, correct them, and assert what was or wasn't. Because ya know, trusting what your friends of friends who read something somewhere on a blog on the internet is better than directly asking the source...
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Posted 6/19/17 , edited 6/19/17

runec wrote:
She's specifically addressing the flag. The flag can't be separated from what it stands for and you can't separate what it stands for from racism. You also can't exactly culturally appropriate racial oppression. Again, I think you're mistakenly using the wrong term here for what you're trying to express.

Even if you could somehow separate it, culturally speaking anyone decedent from northern states would then still have a cultural "right" to object to the Confederate flag.


Actually, I can. A symbol is a thing that represents an idea in the mind of the beholder. It's what art is, and why some symbols can mean many things in different cultures. To the south, for whatever reason, it represents their souther culture and their southern pride.

And actually, I'm talking layers upon layers here. there's the flag, which she is giving meaning to by ascribing it to racism which is an issue which she is using for her own personal gain.



EDIT: also, they're assholes, not because of the flags, but because they're obnoxious and their trucks,more than their flags are indicative of them trying to be bad asses that seek attention by disturbing the peace..

And the parade was relatively pointless, much like my town's decision to make the bathrooms in the park "genderless" because it's already liberal as fuck, and their "declaration of love" isn't so much about embracing even those that hate them ("love thy enemies" and all) as much as trying to declare themselves as "different" and "fighting for moral justice" in a town that already pretty much agrees with them. Pontificating for no reason. (and the bathroom signs never really had much meaning and were disregarded anyhow. I, on many occasions, used the dilapidated ladies room, probably as much as the men's room because they were simply available... But I do remember some of my more liberal friends ascribing some women I know as being "trans" for dressing kinda boyish (though they never noticed the girly earrings or the lipstick she wore...) and a straight male teenager as "gay" because he looked a bit more effeminate")

So yeah. fuck neoliberal "nonjudgement".
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Posted 6/19/17
Okay, I need to meld both post threads here before the wires get crossed. >.>


serifsansserif wrote:
I come from a town of about 2000 people where literally every store hung pride flags outside of their buildings for a week in celebration of a local pride event.. One where our "parade" was so damned tiny the only indication of an event was the damned flags...

It's a liberal dot inside a VERY conservative county in a liberal state.


You have my sympathies >.>



serifsansserif wrote:I also know where I said I was voting Green Party instead of Hilary because I could not morally justify either side I was attacked and pretty much lost my more liberal friends for saying such. The amount of shaming they tried to pull on me... oooof... Honestly, I was getting pretty damned terrified of being around it and how I either felt like if I agreed in principle on some things, they felt I MUST believe in it all or else i was a neonazi hatemonger...


My main problem with Stein was simply that she was an idiot. That she was later discovered as Putin's idiot was just icing.



serifsansserif wrote:
I also got the same reaction once for trying to open up a discussion on transgender here where I would default to our actual transgender members responses as a matter of advocating their experiences, and it was the LIBERAL portion of the boards that felt the need to correct me, correct them, and assert what was or wasn't. Because ya know, trusting what your friends of friends who read something somewhere on a blog on the internet is better than directly asking the source...


Which thread was that? Anything remotely having to do with transgender issues on here always goes the same route. One side attempting to explain the reality of it and the other firmly believing their personal feelings of ickiness qualify as scientific research.



serifsansserif wrote:
No. The issue or racism is what she appropriates in order to do what you are saying. Racism does not affect her, yet she is using this issue for her own gain.


But that's not cultural appropriation. You're describing something along the vein of virtue signalling. Cultural appropriation is fairly specific.




serifsansserif wrote:
True. But again, it's not a right and wrong situation here. Both parties are in the wrong. You can't justify being an asshole just because that assholery gets you beaten up.

Unless you want to start the whole "victim blaming" thing, in which case, you'll have a hard time justifying why it's ok to hold people free of agency in their actions, or, understanding that empirical evidence should be disregarded when it warns you against your idealized behaviour, OR conversely, only cling to it when it does suit your narrative.


She complained as a customer and she did so without breaking anything, swearing at anyone or getting up in anyone's grill. She didn't take any major steps out of bounds. I have been treated far far FAR worse for far far far less when I worked in customer service. You may not like her opinion but her complaint was brief and she left the store.

The reaction to her complaint was far far worse of the two.
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Posted 6/19/17
I'm just gonna assume it's clickbait
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Posted 6/19/17
Listen south you lost give it up
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Posted 6/19/17

serifsansserif wrote:
Actually, I can. A symbol is a thing that represents an idea in the mind of the beholder. It's what art is, and why some symbols can mean many things in different cultures. To the south, for whatever reason, it represents their souther culture and their southern pride.


Except it doesn't though. The flag obviously fell out of usage after the Civil War and didn't actually reappear in usage till the 40s. It then surged in usage during the civil rights movements. Where it was waved by protesters opposing the desegregation of schools and voting rights for African Americans. It's modern popularity is tied directly to that resurgence. Prior to that there wasn't much care to wave it around in the name of "southern pride" or "heritage".
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Posted 6/19/17
Also why have pride in a slave nation why not have pride in other southern things like for those in South Carolina, have pride in creating reform Judaism
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Posted 6/19/17

Kefkapwnsall wrote:
Listen south you lost give it up


Well yes, that....does kind of sum up the entirety of this in a single sentence.

So I guess we're done here?

>.>
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Posted 6/19/17
Ungh.. Right after I edit a previous post.....



runec wrote:

Okay, I need to meld both post threads here before the wires get crossed. >.>


serifsansserif wrote:
I come from a town of about 2000 people where literally every store hung pride flags outside of their buildings for a week in celebration of a local pride event.. One where our "parade" was so damned tiny the only indication of an event was the damned flags...

It's a liberal dot inside a VERY conservative county in a liberal state.


You have my sympathies >.>


No need really. Both sides are just idiots who have completely gone of the deep end and lost sight of the issues..

Hell, even this back and forth is kinda pointless except to be mildly mentally stimulating and hone one's debating skills.




serifsansserif wrote:I also know where I said I was voting Green Party instead of Hilary because I could not morally justify either side I was attacked and pretty much lost my more liberal friends for saying such. The amount of shaming they tried to pull on me... oooof... Honestly, I was getting pretty damned terrified of being around it and how I either felt like if I agreed in principle on some things, they felt I MUST believe in it all or else i was a neonazi hatemonger...


My main problem with Stein was simply that she was an idiot. That she was later discovered as Putin's idiot was just icing.

Trust me, I was hard pressed to find a candidate I wanted to actually vote for. I wasn't going to NOT vote, because I honestly do believe in the system, but it was also a matter of making a statement about the main two.



serifsansserif wrote:
I also got the same reaction once for trying to open up a discussion on transgender here where I would default to our actual transgender members responses as a matter of advocating their experiences, and it was the LIBERAL portion of the boards that felt the need to correct me, correct them, and assert what was or wasn't. Because ya know, trusting what your friends of friends who read something somewhere on a blog on the internet is better than directly asking the source...


Which thread was that? Anything remotely having to do with transgender issues on here always goes the same route. One side attempting to explain the reality of it and the other firmly believing their personal feelings of ickiness qualify as scientific research.

don't make me dig up three year old threads... Please.. I haven't the time or the energy. Believe it or not, I'm not new here by any stretch of the imagination. Like everywhere else, I pop in and out as I please and take many year absences at my leisure. Blue Oni was far more active back then, and TBH it's nice to see Mystical Gon, PotentSativa, and Omega still rocking it out here...

but yeah, the thread is pretty unremarkable and went down the same way.... except we had apparently some members more open about being trans, and, the deluge of people trying to"explain it" were, laughably, not trans and correcting those that were.

And as an explanation as to why I made the thread: Gender is a weird thing for me, hence why I started it. I mean I see sex, but gender itself is kinda meaningless. A large portion of it is a societal construct, and people simply choose what they want or what best ascribes to them. (and gender roles are societally dictated roles for each sex). I'd rather just say "fuck society" and do my own thing.....

Hence, perhaps also explaining the many year absences... *sigh*





serifsansserif wrote:
No. The issue or racism is what she appropriates in order to do what you are saying. Racism does not affect her, yet she is using this issue for her own gain.


But that's not cultural appropriation. You're describing something along the vein of virtue signalling. Cultural appropriation is fairly specific.


fine. If we're just down to arguing terminology I'll concede.



serifsansserif wrote:
True. But again, it's not a right and wrong situation here. Both parties are in the wrong. You can't justify being an asshole just because that assholery gets you beaten up.

Unless you want to start the whole "victim blaming" thing, in which case, you'll have a hard time justifying why it's ok to hold people free of agency in their actions, or, understanding that empirical evidence should be disregarded when it warns you against your idealized behaviour, OR conversely, only cling to it when it does suit your narrative.


She complained as a customer and she did so without breaking anything, swearing at anyone or getting up in anyone's grill. She didn't take any major steps out of bounds. I have been treated far far FAR worse for far far far less when I worked in customer service. You may not like her opinion but her complaint was brief and she left the store.

The reaction to her complaint was far far worse of the two.


Again, just because someone else did far worse in response does not mean you were right to begin with. Just because you were treated far, far,far,far,far,far,far,far,far,far,far worse, it doesn't legitimize her behavior.

My point is she got what she intended. One way or another she just wanted a reaction and she got it.
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Posted 6/19/17 , edited 6/20/17

Kefkapwnsall wrote:

Listen south you lost give it up


Why does texas constantly and insecessantly believe they can "secede" any time they want?

People love to champion the defiant, the underdog, and lost causes.


Kefkapwnsall wrote:

Also why have pride in a slave nation why not have pride in other southern things like for those in South Carolina, have pride in creating reform Judaism


Who the fuck even knew they created that?

Plus it's not a big enough impact on history.

Plus, wasn't south carolina one of the states which incorporated said offending flag?

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Posted 6/19/17

runec wrote:


serifsansserif wrote:
Actually, I can. A symbol is a thing that represents an idea in the mind of the beholder. It's what art is, and why some symbols can mean many things in different cultures. To the south, for whatever reason, it represents their souther culture and their southern pride.


Except it doesn't though. The flag obviously fell out of usage after the Civil War and didn't actually reappear in usage till the 40s. It then surged in usage during the civil rights movements. Where it was waved by protesters opposing the desegregation of schools and voting rights for African Americans. It's modern popularity is tied directly to that resurgence. Prior to that there wasn't much care to wave it around in the name of "southern pride" or "heritage".


.................... and the other thing is that symbols can change, as you have already illustriously demonstrated.

In the 80's with dukes of hazzard, there was a confederate flag emblazoned on the main's car, and to them to the people watching and the characters in the show, it portrayed southern pride and a defiance to the law.......

Maybe that's where the meaning of it as southern pride started.. I dunno.

The meaning still lies in the eyes of the beholder, and each member of the audience may ascribe a different meaning. SYMBOLS should not be banned because of what the viewer or even the creator ascribes to them. Because then we start getting into that OTHER topic floating around I've been commenting on.......
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Posted 6/19/17
1. Texas can't secede and at some point you need to tell the underdog that they can't win if they are that weak compared to the overdog. Like going into a war as 1 person with a spear not gonna work out. https://youtu.be/2G9tPU3ABrI
2. Hey that's just one example other examples include breathtaking wildlife, native architecture, amazing cities
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Posted 6/19/17 , edited 6/19/17

runec wrote:

Except it doesn't though. The flag obviously fell out of usage after the Civil War and didn't actually reappear in usage till the 40s. It then surged in usage during the civil rights movements. Where it was waved by protesters opposing the desegregation of schools and voting rights for African Americans. It's modern popularity is tied directly to that resurgence. Prior to that there wasn't much care to wave it around in the name of "southern pride" or "heritage".


Do you ever intermingle with Southern youths and other younger people in the South, especially "rednecks"? If personal experience is an acceptible reference, I'm concerned with one thing; in my entire twelve years of living in Mississippi, never have I witnessed anyone in my age group attributing malicious racism to their interest in the Confederate flag. Sure, I've known racists, but it's always been treated as a separate entity to the flag. Instead, I've seen pop culture references, admiration for stubborn spirit, and use as a sort-of Southern "football flag." The racist ties to the resurgence has largely fallen out of favor more and more. Let the racism die on it's own.
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Except you assume racism is and always will be in decline. When it isn't always that way though. Nationalism can always creep up. Look at this for instance, anti Muslim sentiments went up after 9/11 and also for a more prominent example after reconstruction ended segregation started again and after a court decision got worse
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