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Post Reply Otto Warmbier, student arrest in North Korea has passed away
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Posted 6/20/17

MysticGon wrote:


uncletim wrote:


XxDarkSasuxX wrote:

You know it's sad when a poor young girl gets raped. What WAS she doing walking the streets wearing THAT?


Was the girl warned there was a rapist hanging out on ever street corner and was breaking the law by walking down the street naked? Because that is the only way your logic is even remotely comparable


Does that even matter? It's not her fault...


So you think people should not be held accountable for their own stupidity?
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Posted 6/20/17 , edited 6/20/17
//she was askin for it, what choice did I have? I think we all need to stop playing the blame game here


seriously, I don't know how this topic started, but y'all got some messed up people around here
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Posted 6/20/17

Mishio1 wrote:


ad_arbitrium wrote:

I think there is a security cam video that shows, ostensibly, him taking down the banner. And before anyone says it, do you really think the govt would go to all that trouble just to frame some random tourist?


This is the first I've heard about security footage, you've made me a bit curious about that. But as for your question, I already explained that in the same post you previously quoted


Mishio1 wrote:

It's possible that the charge was made up. I mean, I wouldn't put it past North Korea to just nab someone at random and make up a charge just to make a political statement or get a bargaining chip. And while I don't recall the details of his confession, I remember thinking that some of the stuff he said sounded like things he was being forced to say.


North Korea has a history of detaining foreigners, and releasing them when said foreigner's head of state comes to negotiate their release. It's an internal propaganda victory for them. "See how great we are, this great world leader came to beg us for a favor!" Or something like that. Of course, that particular practice has fallen off recently due to increased tensions, but it's possible the incident was cooked up for a similar purpose.


It's not just a propaganda victory for them, it is also a material gain. Keep in mind that north Korea is deprived of cash and most basic resources. The cash, "humanitarian aid deals", and relaxation of trade restrictions they can get from negotiating the release of a captive are pretty lucrative to them. It's really quite appalling the amount of material wealth western nations are willing to part with for the life of one or two of their citizens.

north Korea has a long history of this kind of industrialized kidnap-for-ransom racket. They also, like clockwork, ratchet up tension on the peninsula by conducting missile tests, long range artillery drills, and military maneuvers in order to coerce their neighbors into paying up ransom in the form of "humanitarian aid". Their neighbors agree to pay up in return for north Korea stopping the provocations. A few months or years down the line when the neighbors get tired of paying and the "aid" dries up, and the commies go right back to making threats until they get paid off again. Wash, rinse, repeat. For six decades.
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Posted 6/20/17

uncletim wrote:


MysticGon wrote:


uncletim wrote:


XxDarkSasuxX wrote:

You know it's sad when a poor young girl gets raped. What WAS she doing walking the streets wearing THAT?


Was the girl warned there was a rapist hanging out on ever street corner and was breaking the law by walking down the street naked? Because that is the only way your logic is even remotely comparable


Does that even matter? It's not her fault...


So you think people should not be held accountable for their own stupidity?


... ... . . . I'm speechless right now... You cannot be serious.
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Posted 6/20/17 , edited 6/20/17

uncletim wrote:


MysticGon wrote:


uncletim wrote:


XxDarkSasuxX wrote:

You know it's sad when a poor young girl gets raped. What WAS she doing walking the streets wearing THAT?


Was the girl warned there was a rapist hanging out on ever street corner and was breaking the law by walking down the street naked? Because that is the only way your logic is even remotely comparable


Does that even matter? It's not her fault...


So you think people should not be held accountable for their own stupidity?


As much as I hate to agree with tim, there is a massive logical flaw in comparing choosing to do something legal that has no direct causal link to a negative action (dress skimpy >> get raped?) with something that has a very clear causal link (get caught committing a crime >> receive prescribed punishment)
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Posted 6/20/17
guy got tortured and passed away due to severe injury to his brain tissue, and people here are blaming him, saying he had it coming.
whether it was a wise choice to go there is another story, but it certainly would be nice if people here knew to show a slimmer of compassion.
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Posted 6/20/17 , edited 6/20/17

outontheop wrote:

-snip- something that has a very clear causal link (get caught committing a crime >> receive prescribed punishment)



XxDarkSasuxX wrote:

I don't think it takes a genius to realize torture is not an equivalent exchange of punishment for petit theft of the second degree.

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Posted 6/20/17 , edited 6/20/17

outontheop wrote:


uncletim wrote:


MysticGon wrote:


uncletim wrote:


XxDarkSasuxX wrote:

You know it's sad when a poor young girl gets raped. What WAS she doing walking the streets wearing THAT?


Was the girl warned there was a rapist hanging out on ever street corner and was breaking the law by walking down the street naked? Because that is the only way your logic is even remotely comparable


Does that even matter? It's not her fault...


So you think people should not be held accountable for their own stupidity?


As much as I hate to agree with tim, there is a massive logical flaw in comparing choosing to do something legal that has no direct causal link to a negative action (dress skimpy >> get raped?) with something that has a very clear causal link (get caught committing a crime >> receive prescribed punishment)


How is being tortured to death even a defensible position to take even if a person killed another person. The kid took a fucking banner. That "well it's their world so you have to play by their rules" shit is no excuse. Not one any reasonable person would accept. It's the same thing. Did a minor stupid thing. Like if a girl was publicly drunk, which could be a crime in some places. The rapists saying "I'll show her, I'll rape her to death" is wrong. Can't believe I have to explain this. North Korea is the rapist. Just because they think it's okay doesn't make it okay. They fucking know it too... trying to blame it on sleeping pills...
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Posted 6/20/17

Would he have been tortured to death if he never went there?
The State department has been warning people DON'T GO TO NORTH KOREA for decades
Yes it's sad he died but that doesn't excuse the fact that he chose to go there knowing full well what the place was like

Maybe some good will come out of this. Next time the State department says don't go somewhere it's dangerous maybe just maybe PEOPLE WON'T FUCKING GO THERE!!!!
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Posted 6/20/17

uncletim wrote:

Maybe some good will come out of this. Next time the State department says don't go somewhere it's dangerous maybe just maybe PEOPLE WON'T FUCKING GO THERE!!!!

Guess we should stop all American flights to Europe as well then.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/799086/Terror-fears-US-State-of-department-travel-alert-Europe
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Posted 6/20/17 , edited 6/20/17

XxDarkSasuxX wrote:


uncletim wrote:

Maybe some good will come out of this. Next time the State department says don't go somewhere it's dangerous maybe just maybe PEOPLE WON'T FUCKING GO THERE!!!!

Guess we should stop all American flights to Europe as well then.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/799086/Terror-fears-US-State-of-department-travel-alert-Europe


you do understand there is a difference between the State department saying be on alert and saying just don't go there? I mean you can grasp that right or are you already booking your vacation to Somalia?
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Posted 6/20/17

uncletim wrote:

I mean you can grasp that right or are you already booking your vacation to Somalia?

If I go, it definitely won't be on vacation.
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Posted 6/20/17
while i do think it was dumb move to go on vacation to n Korea i do see why some people would go just to satisfy their curiosity to see what goes on their. also the fact that he was tortured to death over what really should be a minor offense isn't justifiable at all. sure the person may have done something dumb but i doubt it was so dumb to deserve that.
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Posted 6/20/17

dragonlord1234 wrote:

also the fact that he was tortured to death over what really should be a minor offense isn't justifiable at all. sure the person may have done something dumb but i doubt it was so dumb to deserve that.

Right.
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Posted 6/21/17

XxDarkSasuxX wrote:


XxDarkSasuxX wrote:

I don't think it takes a genius to realize torture is not an equivalent exchange of punishment for petit theft of the second degree.



It is not petty theft, but direct aggressive action in opposition to the government. Would you describe fire-bombing a state building as minor vandalism, riling up a large mob for violent overthrow of the government as verbal assault, or pointing a gun at the president as a misdemeanor criminal threat? Stealing a propaganda poster in an oppressive, information controlled society like N Korea would be more akin to stealing the original declaration of independence from the National Archives in seriousness of the crime, which I'm sure you wouldn't describe as petty theft.

I'm not saying it should be considered direct aggressive action in opposition to the government, and fortunately I don't live in a society where would be. But someone traveling to a society where it is should realize the implications of their actions.
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