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Post Reply Should America be balkanized for world peace and stability?
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Posted 6/24/17 , edited 6/24/17
So, uh, who gets the nukes? The now independent Republic of North Dakota? Who gets the destroyers and aircraft carriers? The now independent Republic of Hawaii and Republic of California? What happens to the territories? Are they just totally independent countries now? Who honours currently outstanding US bonds? Who issues currency? State governments? Is the currency of Massachusetts still good in Pennsylvania? In Virginia? What if California decided to try to gobble up Nevada? Would the army of the Republic of Arizona have to help, or could they sit back, fortify their own border with California, and say "Sucks for you, dudes!"?

The Articles of Confederation died and Continentalism caught on for a reason. This shit's it.
qwueri 
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Posted 6/24/17
So turn the US into a chaotic mess and leave the world for the EU, Russia, and China to tinker with? Yeah, I'm sure that'd promote nothing but peace and stability.
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Posted 6/24/17 , edited 6/24/17
Why the hell does all the theorists pop out of the wood work when ever a stupid argument like this comes up? Regardless of the reason, USA stands for "UNITED States of America." Removing the Civil War from the equation, we stand together and help other states out while arguing over the stupidest reasons from trump and cops shooting kids or people from other ethnic color because it is always "whites fault" (not to argue, but anyone can pull a trigger in any situation)...we always come together in the end, nearly 250 years for a nation that as being human (aka we make mistakes and do stupid things, but recognize it) we will always be together in the end.
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Posted 6/24/17
If the United States is so united why is California agitating to leave the union because Trump is President?

The only thing holding the so called "United States" together is money and inertia.

And WHEN, not if, the money goes it will all fly apart like a claymore detonating.

Remember both the State of Illinois and the US territory of Puerto Rico are going bankrupt NOW, California will be next...

Now fast forward 15 years...






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Posted 6/24/17

qwueri wrote:

So turn the US into a chaotic mess and leave the world for the EU, Russia, and China to tinker with? Yeah, I'm sure that'd promote nothing but peace and stability.


Let me grab my pith helmet and khakis! Britannia's going to rule again, by God!
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Posted 6/24/17

TheZaphod wrote:

If the United States is so united why is California agitating to leave the union because Trump is President?

The only thing holding the so called "United States" together is money and inertia.

And WHEN, not if, the money goes it will all fly apart like a claymore detonating.

Remember both the State of Illinois and the US territory of Puerto Rico are going bankrupt NOW, California will be next...

Now fast forward 15 years...








It's more like a small group of crazy people want California to secede from the union,and not the majority. Texas on the other hand was very close to actually voting on doing it......
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Posted 6/24/17

danagram wrote:


TheZaphod wrote:

If the United States is so united why is California agitating to leave the union because Trump is President?

The only thing holding the so called "United States" together is money and inertia.

And WHEN, not if, the money goes it will all fly apart like a claymore detonating.

Remember both the State of Illinois and the US territory of Puerto Rico are going bankrupt NOW, California will be next...

Now fast forward 15 years...








It's more like a small group of crazy people want California to secede from the union,and not the majority. Texas on the other hand was very close to actually voting on doing it......


No we are not. That is also a very small portion here. The vast majority of Texans know we need the Union and the Union needs us.
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Posted 6/24/17 , edited 6/24/17

paul25454 wrote:


danagram wrote:


TheZaphod wrote:

If the United States is so united why is California agitating to leave the union because Trump is President?

The only thing holding the so called "United States" together is money and inertia.

And WHEN, not if, the money goes it will all fly apart like a claymore detonating.

Remember both the State of Illinois and the US territory of Puerto Rico are going bankrupt NOW, California will be next...

Now fast forward 15 years...








It's more like a small group of crazy people want California to secede from the union,and not the majority. Texas on the other hand was very close to actually voting on doing it......


No we are not. That is also a very small portion here. The vast majority of Texans know we need the Union and the Union needs us.


I know Texas isn't leaving the union any time soon,however that small portion still got the idea passed a special platform committee.Texan politicians had to decide if they wanted to vote on it ,or not. Of course common sense prevailed,and decided to not vote on it.
Posted 6/24/17 , edited 6/27/17

Reiter01 wrote:

Why the hell does all the theorists pop out of the wood work when ever a stupid argument like this comes up? Regardless of the reason, USA stands for "UNITED States of America." Removing the Civil War from the equation, we stand together and help other states out while arguing over the stupidest reasons from trump and cops shooting kids or people from other ethnic color because it is always "whites fault" (not to argue, but anyone can pull a trigger in any situation)...we always come together in the end, nearly 250 years for a nation that as being human (aka we make mistakes and do stupid things, but recognize it) we will always be together in the end.


That was beautiful man, united we stand.

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Posted 6/24/17
Ok, people we need to read the constitution. Look at the powers of the federal and State governments and you will find that most of the things we blame the federal government for are really state problems. Your roads are broken and the water pipes are made of led. Those are the states problems. Wages are low, over regulation stifles some business and encourages bad behavior in others. That's a state problem to; Federal regulations are intended to be the base not the standard. If you graduated high school you should know these things. We should stop looking to the President to solve our problems. Congressmen, Senators, Governors, and State Legislatures are the people we should arguing over. Not Trump, Hillary, ect. The President has the most individual power but, they must obey the will of the people. United we Stand Divided we Fall.
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Posted 6/25/17

Hakuotter wrote:

So then, instead of having a large nation with separate interests balancing and checking each other, you'd rather have a bunch of tiny radical nations?



This.

Also, the idea that small, radical nations would be less likely to take military action abroad is suspect.
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Posted 6/25/17
As stupid as the U.S. government is about many things, it's not that stupid. Notice that, even if our idiot commander-in-chief is in love with Russia, the senate voted 98-2 to pass sanctions against it. (The two against were Rand Paul and Bernie Sanders; this amuses me greatly.) The most basic foreign policy points almost everyone agrees on, even if what they decide isn't a good idea.

It's true that, culturally, America is greatly divided in some respects. But remember that things were a lot worse: there used to be government-sanctioned segregation, the unrest and protests of the '60s and '70s literally led to the formation of terrorist political organizations that regularly conducted bombings, and there was almost a real global nuclear war. The U.S. held together throughout that, and international relations were way crazier. It's true that the U.S. has outsized power in international affairs, but dismantling it would almost certainly make a far bigger mess than the world is in now (BlueOni covered many of the obvious problems that would appear should the U.S. split apart).

I think things only seem worse to people because of the internet: it amplifies our ability to freak ourselves out, and a good chunk of the people on it don't know about what happened in the '60s and '70s.
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Posted 6/25/17 , edited 6/25/17
Even Florida doesn't want to be associated with California.
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28 / M / St.Louis
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Posted 6/25/17
i guess it could work but idk
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Posted 6/27/17

runec wrote:


Nasigno wrote:
Not really, one is an actual necessity. You can live without money, you cannot live without water or electricity. The sheer loss of that would cause more problems than it is worth to argue against. States with their needs would have a far upper hand in dealing than California would by a large margin.

Not to mention the financial system would crash the moment this whole divide thing happen, so their coffers would be functionally useless at that point and time. Nobody will trade in USD if there is no USD anymore. So they'd have to be backed by some other currency, and who knows at what exchange rate they'd humor giving to California in the first place.


Unless you need that money for your state to import something else *it* needs and I sincerely doubt there's a single self sufficient state in the union. California also exports a massive amount of produce. The rest of the country is more dependent on California for food than California is on it. Hell, the world is dependent on California for a lot of types of fruits and veggies.

California would be fine. Texas would be fine. Florida and New York probably as well.

Everyone else would be a sliding scale from "This is bad" to "gasoline cannibals".



This

California would be entirely fine it's economy is in the top 15 economies of the world. It has a better economy than most countries and would find no trouble adjusting.
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Posted 6/27/17
Worked really well last time, let's do it again!
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