First  Prev  1  2  3  4  Next  Last
Post Reply Study: More Noncitizens May Have Voted Illegally in Elections Than Previously Thought
Posted 6/26/17
Undocumented not illegal no human is illegal
19393 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
M
Offline
Posted 6/26/17
illegal person

illegal
As in, contrary to or forbidden by law, especially criminal law.

and,

person
a human being regarded as an individual.

A human being forbidden by law.
702 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
F / bedroom
Offline
Posted 6/26/17

MysteryMiss wrote:

I got ICE loaded into my phone i use them sometimes LA. is well... not comment might trigger..
- I would love the Gov. Brown to take a little trip with me downtown he can also camp on Sunset blvd. let's see how long he lasts
Gov. Brown are you up for thr challange? leaving your comort zone?


can i get that ice number just pm me thanks
15159 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
100
Offline
Posted 6/26/17
Does anyone have a link to the actual survey itself? Somehow "justfacts" seems like a source that is unlikely to be factual in nature.


Kefkapwnsall wrote:

Undocumented not illegal no human is illegal



Jamming777 wrote:

illegal person

illegal
As in, contrary to or forbidden by law, especially criminal law.

and,

person
a human being regarded as an individual.

A human being forbidden by law.


This is not what the term means by the people who use it and you know it. Does it make you feel good about yourself when you reinterpret what others say in order to allow you to hate them more easily?


gvblackmoon wrote:


Instead of stating your viewpoint repeatedly and expecting it to be convincing, could you please make a case as to why this type of law is racist? Preferably in more than one sentence?

I'll even give you a hint: during the Jim Crow era, various restrictions on voting were created by state governments that targeted factors such as literacy rather than targeting race directly, though their purpose was ultimately to prevent black people from voting. There's no 1:1 connection between this and the present controversy over voter ID laws, but you should be able to make a decent argument that they're racist based on that bit of history anyways.
15748 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
25 / M
Offline
Posted 6/26/17

gghadur77 wrote:

Does anyone have a link to the actual survey itself? Somehow "justfacts" seems like a source that is unlikely to be factual in nature


I believe you can find the raw data here: https://cces.gov.harvard.edu/

To my knowledge, the 2010 data set is the one that was used for this study.

However, basically what you need to know is that this is a survey consisting of almost 40,000 people within which 39 individuals claimed to be non-citizens who cast a vote. These numbers were extrapolated out using fancy statistical calculations to get the numbers seen in the OP (basically taking the percentage of non-citizens surveyed who claimed to have voted and extrapolating it out using reports of how many non-citizens are in the country).

The problem with this is that you are using an extremely tiny sample size within a huge pool of data. That leaves you extremely susceptible not only to large fluctuations from having a low sample size but also reporting error. It was found that 36 people who claimed to be non-citizens in 2010 claimed to be citizens in 2012 and 20 people reported the opposite case. Of the people who consistently reported their citizenship status as "non-citizen", zero claimed to have voted in 2010.

Basically, it comes down to making confident assertions with terrible data. It's not really that JustFacts did anything wrong. For all I know, their calculations were fantastic. However, the data you get out is only as good as the data you put in and the data you put in just isn't good enough to make the kinds of projections that are trying to be made here.
5441 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
28 / M
Offline
Posted 6/26/17

Kefkapwnsall wrote:

Undocumented not illegal no human is illegal


Wrong.
runec 
38566 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
Offline
Posted 6/26/17

gghadur77 wrote:
Instead of stating your viewpoint repeatedly and expecting it to be convincing, could you please make a case as to why this type of law is racist? Preferably in more than one sentence?


Would studies and legal rulings help?

http://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/abs/10.1086/688343
https://www.austinchronicle.com/daily/news/2017-04-11/court-rules-texas-voter-id-still-racist/

Justice Ginsburg also had a rather scathing opinion on the matter if you want to go check with the Supreme Court.


6636 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
Offline
Posted 6/26/17

Kefkapwnsall wrote:

Undocumented not illegal no human is illegal


illegal as in entering and residing within a country illegally which usually involves breaking multiple laws or doing something illegal, such as not paying taxes, crossing the border illegally, not registering for citizenship etc. not that the person's existence is itself illegal and shouldn't have even been born. and because of this they shouldn't have the right to vote since they aren't a legal citizen of the country they are in and similar benefits legal law abiding citizens have.
Posted 6/26/17 , edited 6/26/17

D4nc3Style wrote:


Kefkapwnsall wrote:

Undocumented not illegal no human is illegal


Wrong.

You calling Eli Wiesel a liar

15159 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
100
Offline
Posted 6/26/17

Kefkapwnsall wrote:

You calling Eli Wiesel a liar



You're also wrong and not only that, you evaded the very issue of your wrongness to argue against someone else by what is in effect an appeal to authority. At this point, I'm calling you a liar. Every time you repeat without thinking that idiotic "people aren't illegal" meme you should think about the fact that you're falsely assigning to me an incredibly hateful worldview because I don't conform to your politically determined rules of English grammar. I don't have a problem with illegal immigrants (at least not solely on the basis of their immigration status), I just grew up in a subculture where "illegal immigrant" meant "person who immigrated to a country illegally." I'd appreciate it if you didn't pretend otherwise just so you can spread political propaganda on the internet.


runec wrote:


gghadur77 wrote:
Instead of stating your viewpoint repeatedly and expecting it to be convincing, could you please make a case as to why this type of law is racist? Preferably in more than one sentence?


Would studies and legal rulings help?

http://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/abs/10.1086/688343
https://www.austinchronicle.com/daily/news/2017-04-11/court-rules-texas-voter-id-still-racist/

Justice Ginsburg also had a rather scathing opinion on the matter if you want to go check with the Supreme Court.




Thanks for the links, interesting stuff to read although the first one is abstract-only for me since I'm not shelling out 10 bucks and don't belong to a sponsoring institution." I wasn't actually challenging the idea that voter ID laws are racist - I don't think they are inherently racist, but as I said there are good historical reasons for being skeptical of the racial impact of voting law.

That said, if driving on the right causes more accidents involving Hispanics than driving on the left would, is it racist for the US to change which side of the road people drive on? I don't think so, although I bet some people would. Voting rights are one thing, but if I'm ever told I'm racist for supporting driving on the right or anything else where there's no connection at all aside from a statistical discrepancy, then there's a problem and it isn't me.

On that note, I was under the impression that the existence of a statistical discrepancy in impact between racial groups was in itself treated as evidence of racism but the newspaper article seems to indicate intent is also relevant. That's certainly comforting to know - racism is increasingly regarded as a serious fault and this creates its' own concerns about being too quick to label as racist a policy proposed by the political party you don't like.

It's a little bit like the undocumented vs illegal thing I commented on above. Perhaps it's wise to be concerned about the impact of voter ID laws but making the people you disagree with out to be stupid and/or evil is never a good idea. I don't want to live in a society where I get branded as a public enemy for no reason save that it's politically convenient for someone else. Whether that happens because I'm barred from voting due to my race or because my political views are slandered into social unacceptability is irrelevant to me if the impact on me is the same.
51656 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
36 / M
Offline
Posted 6/26/17
All I have to say is that to make these claims and sound like anything but a moron you would need some proof to back you up.
http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/counting-the-documented-cases-voter-fraud-2016
Huh go figure, a total of 4 cases of voter fraud from the 2016 election nationwide. All 4 were Republicans.
1159 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
29
Offline
Posted 6/26/17 , edited 6/26/17
I am not here to influence you. Profitability über alles. Upper class White America unite. Protect our investment. Socialist. Libtard. Tree hugger. I represent influence. I speak for authority. Morals. Bunk science. Alternative facts. You are my market.

Here are some very official looking graphs from an unbiased source which prove you wrong. I've got dozens more, let me show them to you. Do not question the will of power. Do not resist. Trust me. My words reflect truth. Nothing will change unless I say they should.
lawdog 
44933 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
M
Offline
Posted 6/26/17
How many of you have actually worked with illegals? Oh, excuse me, how un-PC of me. I meant to say ILLEGALS. I have, for more than a quarter of a century. And by "work" I mean, how many of you have had an immigration judge directly quote what you wrote in granting political asylum?

The number of illegals today who have false IDs and fake social security numbers is staggering, far greater than it was back in the 1990s. Illegals qualify for workers compensation, but the one thing that can screw up a workers compensation recovery is lying about anything on your application. So if you put your fake name and your fake SSN on your application, it will be found out, and your application will be denied...and depending on the state, you can go to jail for as much as 10 years for fraud.

These days, more than 75% of illegals have to correct their information to make sure they're not submitting false information.

Vote? You bet your ass they do! I've talked with those who have, and I've talked to those who've witnessed their illegal neighbors and family vote. It is an open secret, and only because people don't want to make waves, about how much illegal voting takes place.
51656 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
36 / M
Offline
Posted 6/26/17
Anecdotal evidence is not proof, kinda why it isn't allowed in court. BUt hey, if all we need is anecdotal evidence, then let me tell you something, I talked to Donald Trump just yesterday and he admitted to being a lizard man from Venus. Hoo boy did he pull a fast one over on us, illegal alien to the extreme!
15159 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
100
Offline
Posted 6/26/17

lawdog wrote:

How many of you have actually worked with illegals? Oh, excuse me, how un-PC of me. I meant to say ILLEGALS. I have, for more than a quarter of a century. And by "work" I mean, how many of you have had an immigration judge directly quote what you wrote in granting political asylum?

The number of illegals today who have false IDs and fake social security numbers is staggering, far greater than it was back in the 1990s. Illegals qualify for workers compensation, but the one thing that can screw up a workers compensation recovery is lying about anything on your application. So if you put your fake name and your fake SSN on your application, it will be found out, and your application will be denied...and depending on the state, you can go to jail for as much as 10 years for fraud.

These days, more than 75% of illegals have to correct their information to make sure they're not submitting false information.

Vote? You bet your ass they do! I've talked with those who have, and I've talked to those who've witnessed their illegal neighbors and family vote. It is an open secret, and only because people don't want to make waves, about how much illegal voting takes place.


I'm a supreme court justice and the violent crime rate for illegal immigrants is less than 10% that of the rate for US citizens. You lose, get off the internet.
First  Prev  1  2  3  4  Next  Last
You must be logged in to post.