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Genuine lgbt question
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Posted 6/26/17
Translation girls are hitting on guys
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Posted 6/26/17

Kefkapwnsall wrote:

Why should it matter for a one night stand like I'll tell people I'm trans so they don't shoot me but that isn't mandatory

What they don't know won't hurt them.

It is still deceit.


PeripheralVisionary wrote:

I agree, depending on the relationship. For romantic or other types or other type of relationships demanding closeness, it would be dishonest due to how many people care about it, especially with sexual partners and such. People in those situations deserve to know, no matter the overall importance I personally place on it.

Just being transgender, or appearing to be another gender, doesn't seem to be deceitful to me, but I suppose an argument could be formed.
That being said, I find announcing such and such when no one asks but in the case that "they do" to be a bit annoying, which is one of the primary reasons I responded with that view. I was thinking of situations such as just walking down the street, rather than inquiries for truth or situations that would demand it so, such as relationships.

It is not something you can put rules to. I was more or less implying relationships rather than casual, day-to-day life.

As per my analogies that I've been rather fond of over this last week, I would expect my SO to tell me about their criminal history at least a few weeks after the beginning of the relationship. Not years after we meet, or even after marriage.
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Posted 6/26/17 , edited 6/26/17

XxDarkSasuxX wrote:


Kefkapwnsall wrote:

Why should it matter for a one night stand like I'll tell people I'm trans so they don't shoot me but that isn't mandatory

What they don't know won't hurt them.

It is still deceit.


PeripheralVisionary wrote:

I agree, depending on the relationship. For romantic or other types or other type of relationships demanding closeness, it would be dishonest due to how many people care about it, especially with sexual partners and such. People in those situations deserve to know, no matter the overall importance I personally place on it.

Just being transgender, or appearing to be another gender, doesn't seem to be deceitful to me, but I suppose an argument could be formed.
That being said, I find announcing such and such when no one asks but in the case that "they do" to be a bit annoying, which is one of the primary reasons I responded with that view. I was thinking of situations such as just walking down the street, rather than inquiries for truth or situations that would demand it so, such as relationships.

It is not something you can put rules to. I was more or less implying relationships rather than casual, day-to-day life.

As per my analogies that I've been rather fond of over this last week, I would expect my SO to tell me about their criminal history at least a few weeks after the beginning of the relationship. Not years after we meet, or even after marriage.


Not sure, I think transgender falls into one of those things you should tell your partner about pretty early, but those are just my rules on commonly cared about relationship attributes, generally speaking. I won't say it should abide by a specific timeline at "so and so" weeks, because every pairing is different.

I do apply those rules to my relationships. Finding a girl with an incest fetish is pretty tough these days, and I have to keep in mind how people are not as kinky as their onii chan.
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Posted 6/26/17

onepiece_fan wrote:


Cardamom_Ginger wrote:

Yes, I think it's odd, because it renders the time and expense of transitioning impractical. Yes, I am a penny-pincher.


What you appear to be saying here is that there is nothing to be a woman beyond being sexually attracted to men.

Do correct me if I'm wrong, but it's hard to read into this in any other way.


^^^^
https://twitter.com/ProBirdRights/status/368542088897372161
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Posted 6/26/17

XxDarkSasuxX wrote:


Kefkapwnsall wrote:

Why should it matter for a one night stand like I'll tell people I'm trans so they don't shoot me but that isn't mandatory

What they don't know won't hurt them.

It is still deceit.


PeripheralVisionary wrote:

I agree, depending on the relationship. For romantic or other types or other type of relationships demanding closeness, it would be dishonest due to how many people care about it, especially with sexual partners and such. People in those situations deserve to know, no matter the overall importance I personally place on it.

Just being transgender, or appearing to be another gender, doesn't seem to be deceitful to me, but I suppose an argument could be formed.
That being said, I find announcing such and such when no one asks but in the case that "they do" to be a bit annoying, which is one of the primary reasons I responded with that view. I was thinking of situations such as just walking down the street, rather than inquiries for truth or situations that would demand it so, such as relationships.

It is not something you can put rules to. I was more or less implying relationships rather than casual, day-to-day life.

As per my analogies that I've been rather fond of over this last week, I would expect my SO to tell me about their criminal history at least a few weeks after the beginning of the relationship. Not years after we meet, or even after marriage.


I would say it's not "deceit", because the word "deceit" implies exclusively malicious intent in being secretive or lying. I do not think transgender people are being "deceitful" in going stealth, since they mean no harm, and in most cases, are just afraid of coming out or wish to be treated no differently than anyone else and want the person to see them for who they are, rather than some superficial trait they have no control over. It should be brought up early imo, but I think one must also understand where the party is coming from, who merely wish to live normal lives and blend in as best they can. For instance, unless you want to have babies with your partner that is transgender, it really shouldn't matter at all. They're just like any other person of their gender, so unless there is a situational reason for it, why is it something that *has* to be known? How is one wronged by not knowing useless information? It's a private matter that belongs to the person to share or not to share as they see fit. I still argue one should share in terms of dating solely for their safety because there are men in the world who freak out and attack their partners when told, but that is no fault of theirs.
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Posted 6/26/17

PeripheralVisionary wrote:

Not sure, I think transgender falls into one of those things you should tell your partner about pretty early, but those are just my rules on commonly cared about relationship attributes, generally speaking. I won't say it should abide by a specific timeline at "so and so" weeks, because every pairing is different.

I do apply those rules to my relationships. Finding a girl with an incest fetish is pretty tough these days, and I have to keep in mind how people are not as kinky as their onii chan.

I agree. I gave a couple of weeks as consideration that each pairing was different.

The problem with hiding it is that there are people out there who have no problem with it. So why hold yourself and your intended partner back by withholding information typically regarded as critical within a relationship?
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Posted 6/26/17 , edited 6/27/17

Kefkapwnsall wrote:

I want answers why is the idea of trans lesbians so strange? Like Im a girl and I only like girls I dont see the issue
I just want answers no further discussion okay this is a thing that has been on my mind a lot


No one on this forum has answers for you.

You made this post with a combative mindset. Almost like you wanted to yell at someone or get into an argument.
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Posted 6/26/17

MrAnimeSK wrote:

To me, if a man gets a sex change to become a lesbian that is fairly weird to me.


Thing is, they don't get a sex change in order to become a lesbian. They already identify as the gender they are getting the "sex change" to match, because that's the gender they identify as. They aren't saying "I want to be a lesbian so I'll get a sex change." They are saying "I identify as a woman so I'm going to present as a woman (which may include surgery). Oh, and btw, I'm still attracted to women."


Kefkapwnsall wrote:

Inplying lgbt are mentally ill. Also maybe it's cause I dont want to choose between being a woman and loving them
And respect is a two way street yes but you have to recognize me as a woman for me to not call you an asshole because clearly you can be nice about it but not respect
And how the fuck did touch ignore all the people supporting taking kids away from trans parents



Kefkapwnsall wrote:

Translation girls are hitting on guys


Kefkapwnsall, please use the Quote feature to respond to others. The way you just reply without indicating what post you are responding to makes it look like you are bitching at the world in general instead of trying to have a conversation with someone regarding a particular line of discussion. And frankly, it's confusing and can lead to misunderstandings.

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Posted 6/26/17 , edited 6/26/17

Kefkapwnsall wrote:

Inplying lgbt are mentally ill. Also maybe it's cause I dont want to choose between being a woman and loving them
And respect is a two way street yes but you have to recognize me as a woman for me to not call you an asshole because clearly you can be nice about it but not respect
And how the fuck did touch ignore all the people supporting taking kids away from trans parents


I never meant ALL of LGBT. I meant some. And i meant that young kids are often just confused and going through hormonal changes, indecision, some do have mental issues. Shit these days more people are considered mentally ill than ever before and on medications and shit.
Yeah well it's something that i cannot understand. I mean i can imagine that it would be fun having a lesbian experience but that's becasue iam a hetrosexual male who likes girls.
It's hard for me to understand what it would be like to be a male who's attracted to females yet wants to be a female.

Not sure what you meant on that last part?
Again, it's a touchy and sensitive topic but i dont really think that gay couples or transgenders should be able to have kids.
Not because i dont think they're capable but for the sake of the child. The confusion and possbile humilation and bullying he/she may suffer.
But i dunno, maybe as this all becomes more common and accepted and normalized the children wont have to feel that way or face that in the future?
Oh well when the Muslims take over it will be a non issue (jokes)

EDIT: on the deceit thing, a transgender women would have to tell the man anyhow would he/she not? I mean wouldn't it be obvious as far as the vagina wouldn't self lubricate?
At least i assume it wouldn't? I've heard from people that go to Thailand that the fake pussies actually really do look like the real thing so a guy couldn't tell but i assume a transgender cannot get wet?
You would have to use artificial or lubrication, would you not?
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Posted 6/26/17

ClothStatue wrote:

I would say it's not "deceit", because the word "deceit" implies exclusively malicious intent in being secretive or lying.

No; it does not.


I do not think transgender people are being "deceitful" in going stealth, since they mean no harm, and in most cases, are just afraid of coming out or wish to be treated no differently than anyone else and want the person to see them for who they are, rather than some superficial trait they have no control over.

Yah? And, to reuse my own analogy, you have the most changed or innocent people that have come out of corrective training centers, yet people will still not want to have anything to do with them. That is their choice, and I feel more strongly that you should respect that choice over someone else's feelings.

Am I saying that I don't feel why they would hide such information when they meet someone new? Of course not. Do I think that they should? Of course not.


It should be brought up early imo, but I think one must also understand where the party is coming from, who merely wish to live normal lives and blend in as best they can. For instance, unless you want to have babies with your partner that is transgender, it really shouldn't matter at all.

What? It's pretty rare for a (straight) married couple to not eventually have kids. It may not be on everyone's priority lists, but it's typically something regarded as to the process of family making. Which, to me, is one of the bigger reasons why I would, personally, likely not develop feelings for a transgender person.


They're just like any other person of their gender, so unless there is a situational reason for it, why is it something that *has* to be known?

There are various reasons for it, in my book. All of which similar to how most people would not date someone that they have known and potentially developed feelings for online, only to discover that the person was not the person that they had perceived them to be. Sex may be a non-issue to you, but to many it is not.


How is one wronged by not knowing useless information?

See above.


It's a private matter that belongs to the person to share or not to share as they see fit.

Incorrect.


I still argue one should share in terms of dating solely for their safety because there are men in the world who freak out and attack their partners when told, but that is no fault of theirs.

Shame on both parties for their wrongdoing. Obviously on a scale, the attacking party is the worse side, but that doesn't make innocent the lying party.
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Posted 6/26/17

zangeif123 wrote:


Kefkapwnsall wrote:

I want answers why is the idea of trans lesbians so strange? Like Im a girl and I only like girls I dont see the issue
I just want answers no further discussion okay this is a thing that has been on my mind a lot


No one on this forum has answers for you.

You made this post with a combative mindset. Almost like you wanted to yell at someone or get into an argument.


^^^
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Posted 6/26/17
if your male and you like girls then your not lesbian your straight even if your are transgendered.

also most people are taught that lying is bad, especially when it comes to something serious like a person gender,sex whatever that is actually usually quite important to most people. in the case that person lies about that i feel that they are pretty much predators of a sort caring little about their partner at all they are only motivated by their own selfishness. and i think someone who is transgendered or whatever they should tell their partners quite soon after meeting them if the person is lucky the person may not care but if they hide the truth they all they are doing is lying to their partner and acting on their own selfishness which i feel for sure would cause most people after finding the truth out ether from the person after they've been together for awhile or from someone else like a doctor saying why they can't have kids etc that for sure would get most people at very least upset or quite angry and rightly so since they've been lied to now is violence the best way to express this no but at the same time i feel most of the time they will want nothing to do with the person ever again even if they normally don't have a issue with transgenderism and the like.
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Posted 6/26/17 , edited 6/26/17


1: It does. Deceit is a word only ever used in the negative describing wrongdoing.

2: People who are scarred by trauma or have troublesome disorders are not equivalent to someone who is transgender. It is no one's right to demand to know *everything* about you in a relationship, and being transgender in and of itself is not a disorder, they may have gender dysphoria, but being transgender does not differentiate someone's person so much to be that big of a deal. People are entitled to their secrets, anyone who expects to be able to rid their partner, or friend, of personal privacy needs to learn boundaries. It's literally none of your business, or anyone else's to ask anything so personal, or expect it to be told to you on the virtue that you have an established connection with that person.

If the person hears any such new information, and decides to leave, that's absolutely in their right. But it's not in their right to be angry because they felt they should have known earlier, that's not their choice to make or expect.

3: Then break up? Problem solved. They could get the same point across by saying they're sterile, it would amount to the same and they'd still be in stealth. No harm done, it's not some great crime for them to say something that's only part of the truth. Transgender people aren't the only ones who can't have babies. *shrug* so if that's your reasoning, they still aren't obligated to tell you.

4. But they are the same person, you've just learned more about them. People are allowed to hold their secrets, it's silly to worry so much. Maybe you're right that I don't understand what those people are worried about, it just sounds silly. Unless it's something like, "I'm an axe murderer" or "I'm dying in 2 weeks" or something equally as grave and world changing, then it would be a big deal. But for things like this, it's like hearing someone say "I know I said I liked power rangers, and when you got really excited about it I was pretty enthusiastic over the conversations and so you kind of took that a bit too seriously and thought I *loved* power rangers, but I'm not a huge fan and I've decided I want to clear things up a bit." If power rangers were *your* thing, and you loved them, sure you might feel a bit miffed and maybe if they were that important to you, you could be like, "idk I want to be with someone who really shares my passion, thanks for clearing it up but in that case I'd rather we ended it then. Sorry." But feeling decieved and greatly wronged... that's kind of, extra. Chill out, it's not like they turned out to hate power rangers and they just wanted to make you suffer and laugh internally as they did it.

5. It is a private matter that belongs to the person to share or not to share as they see fit. If you can't handle people turning out differently than when you first meet them, you're going to have a rough time with any relationship of any kind and you're going to start thinking everyone is deceitful. Everyone has secrets, and they can share whenever they want. If, once hearing them, you want out, that's your right to do so. But feeling gravely wronged by it is just juvenile.

6: ^Again, relationships are built over time, as you learn more and more about a person, I'd say as long as it's before marriage, it's fine to tell them whenever they think it's best. For their safety, should probably tell sooner than later like I said earlier, but it's still fully justified to have autonomy to decide when is the best time to tell them.
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Posted 6/26/17 , edited 6/26/17
It isn't strange for a trans female to like girls, no. Because liking another woman and man can go whether you are a male, female, trans, etc.
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Posted 6/26/17 , edited 6/26/17

ClothStatue wrote:

1: -snipped for assertion fallacy-

2: People who are scarred by trauma or have troublesome disorders are not equivalent to someone who is transgender.

Point? I also included innocents, as in, the wrongfully accused.


It is no one's right to demand to know *everything* about you in a relationship,

Of course not, but if you are transgender, I would consider that something I needed to know. I, by no means, can not predict the future, so I will not say that I absolutely wouldn't consider dating a transgender person, but I can for sure tell you that your fucking chances of making it work would only go down from 1% if I found out you were lying about that to me.

This isn't a matter of your feelings in a more serious relationship, you have to consider other things such as the medical care and bills it is normally associated with, healthcare, social, etc. issues that are to come with it, plan a future of not being able to raise your own kids, and the list can go on and on all day.


and being transgender in and of itself is not a disorder, they may have gender dysphoria, but being transgender does not differentiate someone's person so much to be that big of a deal.

I particularly hate beating dead horses so


XxDarkSasuxX wrote:

-snip- Sex may be a non-issue to you, but to many it is not.


ClothStatue wrote:

People are entitled to their secrets, anyone who expects to be able to rid their partner, or friend, of personal privacy needs to learn boundaries. It's literally none of your business, or anyone else's to ask anything so personal, or expect it to be told to you on the virtue that you have an established connection with that person.

Nope. I think it is my business whether or not the person that I am dating is who they say they are.


If the person hears any such new information, and decides to leave, that's absolutely in their right. But it's not in their right to be angry because they felt they should have known earlier, that's not their choice to make or expect.

Half the fucking time it's just the disrespect that comes with it. In case you have been living under a rock, it is not the only issue that has ever surfaced and killed a relationship or marriage for the sole point of being lied to over whatever the issue was.


3: Then break up? Problem solved. They could get the same point across by saying they're sterile, it would amount to the same and they'd still be in stealth. No harm done, it's not some great crime for them to say something that's only part of the truth. Transgender people aren't the only ones who can't have babies. *shrug* so if that's your reasoning, they still aren't obligated to tell you.

But they aren't sterile. They just have the same equipment as you. And I would also unlikely hold a relationship with a barren person unless I was already married with her, so your point is still woefully lacking. *shrug*


-snipped for fluff and because I'm too lazy to even see what you were trying to respond to- But for things like this, it's like hearing someone say "I know I said I liked power rangers, and when you got really excited about it I was pretty enthusiastic over the conversations and so you kind of took that a bit too seriously and thought I *loved* power rangers, but I'm not a huge fan and I've decided I want to clear things up a bit." If power rangers were *your* thing, and you loved them, sure you might feel a bit miffed and maybe if they were that important to you, you could be like, "idk I want to be with someone who really shares my passion, thanks for clearing it up but in that case I'd rather we ended it then. Sorry." But feeling decieved and greatly wronged... that's kind of, extra. Chill out, it's not like they turned out to hate power rangers and they just wanted to make you suffer and laugh internally as they did it.

Lmao! What?

No one gives a fuck about what your tastes are. They give a fuck about what YOU are, figuratively and literally. Have you ever been in a relationship before?


5. It is a private matter that belongs to the person to share or not to share as they see fit.

Once again, wrong. Read above.


If you can't handle people turning out differently than when you first meet them, you're going to have a rough time with any relationship of any kind and you're going to start thinking everyone is deceitful.

Except there is such a thing as tact. And it includes what you should be secretive about and for how long. Pretty much everyone treats transgenderism differently, so I think it's pretty damn important in a relationship involving one transgendered person, especially if it is with someone of the same sex.


Everyone has secrets, and they can share whenever they want. If, once hearing them, you want out, that's your right to do so. But feeling gravely wronged by it is just juvenile.

Right. That is your opinion. But it is not an argument, so I am not sure how you want me to respond here. (Even though I know you obviously don't want a contrasting opinion.)


6: ^Again, relationships are built over time, as you learn more and more about a person, I'd say as long as it's before marriage, it's fine to tell them whenever they think it's best. For their safety, should probably tell sooner than later like I said earlier, but it's still fully justified to have autonomy to decide when is the best time to tell them.

I literally already said that. That being said, I don't think it appropriate to let them know as late as 2 weeks before a scheduled marriage.
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Posted 6/26/17 , edited 6/27/17
I don't care either way. But if you're going to complain to get your way, fuck you.
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