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Post Reply Should windows 7 be free?
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38 / M / Akihibra
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Posted 7/2/17
it's free dummy it comes with the computer plus u can make a backup of it at no cost
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Posted 7/2/17
That's entirely up to Microsoft who are shifting away from operating systems anyways.

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Posted 7/2/17
My windows 10 is crashing less and less with updates, update your windows guys
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Posted 7/2/17

Rujikin wrote:


fredreload wrote:


Rujikin wrote:

Windows XP isn't free. If it was Microsoft would go out of business as everyone would just modify it instead of buying windows 10.


Ya, no one is competing with Microsoft because it is the only operating system out there for gaming..............going to sleep night night


Linux is competing. I have about 5 friends who would convert to linux right now if it wasn't for fallout/skyrim not playing on it. The main thing keeping microsoft alive in households is games. Once games move to vulkan and become platform agnostic then Microsoft is screwed and will be hanging on from businesses.

I've already converted quite a few to linux.


All hail Tux.
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Posted 7/2/17 , edited 7/2/17

Satorules wrote:

it's free dummy it comes with the computer plus u can make a backup of it at no cost


No... it isn't... genius.

Unless the operating system of your PC you bought is Linux, and it came with it, I guarentee you that Windows Xp, 7, 8, 10 cost you at least 100$ extra in the cost of the PC you bought. This includes Mac OSX as well.

If you bought a 900$ PC, 800$ of that was parts and labor. The other 100$ was the operating system. OEM builders usually get a copy they can install on multiple PC's, for much cheaper than what you or I would get from a retail copy of the OS, but ultimately you can bet your ass they are putting the cost of the OS onto you.

Windows is only free if you pirate it, or use an OEM disc, and even then only the OEM has any chance of not being targeted by Microsoft as not being legit.

Source: Beta-tested Windows 7. Was promised Ultimate version for free by Microsoft for services rendered. Was denied the free version so I stole their OEM version and use it to this day because fuck you Microsoft. Unlike you, I actually know what I am talking about.

On another topic, All hail the Linux Master Race. Once Vulkan is complete, Microsoft loses its edge.
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Posted 7/2/17

ninjitsuko wrote:


Rujikin wrote:
Linux is competing. I have about 5 friends who would convert to linux right now if it wasn't for fallout/skyrim not playing on it. The main thing keeping microsoft alive in households is games. Once games move to vulkan and become platform agnostic then Microsoft is screwed and will be hanging on from businesses.

I've already converted quite a few to linux.


Even after working in IT for 18 years (off and on), I would never recommend Linux for home use. I'd rather recommend MacOS over Linux if it came down to the whole "M$ is an evil corporation hell bent on stealing muh privacies!" mentality. The thing that diverts the attention of a luser (lulz) is diversity. There's always going to be that one guy (like yourself) who will recommend something that they, personally, are using - despite not knowing that there's an army of other distributions out there that may actually be significantly better or safer. I mean look at this list of Linux distros - it's endless.

You can pick any random one that is still actively getting developed and it'll have all the features of whatever branch before it and its "parent kernel/branch" -- plus whatever odd "specialty" features that are added into the OS (like Linux Mint - which is a bastard of a bastard of a bastard). Needless to say, Linux still isn't able to compete with Windows when it comes to gaming. Vulkan may cause a slightly better multi-OS crossplay environment for those who are already on Linux but it just won't have the optimized drivers, features, and so forth that you find on Windows (or more specifically, Windows 10).

--

On Topic:

Windows XP is no longer being supported by Microsoft. Giving out free copies would be more damning to their reputation than just letting XP die in the fire that it should have died in a decade ago. Without supporting the OS altogether, the common user wouldn't be interesting due to whatever issues that may come from it (and many manufacturers wouldn't officially support it, thus forcing you to come up with your own drivers that are going to work on Windows). It's a chain reaction - small issues would become large ones over time (snowball) and nobody would even bother trying to help you with them on an official level.



If by home user you mean a nincompoop who cannot follow basic instructions, then yeah, give them Mac OS X all day long. They need their hand held the whole way anyways. Probably best to keep that person on Windows anyways.

But if you mean someone who at least has more intelligence than two copper pennies rubbed together, then I would recommend they use a linux distrobution that suits their needs instead. Would recommend they start with Ubuntu or Mint, as while these are not some people's preferred distro's, they are some of the easiest to get into with Linux, and are made really easy for home users to get used to. Are they the best distros. Hell no.

Are they the best for people who have no fucking clue what they are doing with Linux. Oh fuck yeah they are. Especially Mint IMHO, since it makes certain drivers easier to get a hold of than Ubuntu does.

Once someone was familiar with using and wrecking and reinstalling Ubuntu or Mint, I would move them on to Debian, then maybe start showing them the different GUI choices they have. Like recommending they use KDE or Mate over Gnome and X.

After they have gotten past this point, then I would unleash them onto the world of Linux distro's pointing towards Arch, Kali and Fedora/RedHat as top picks, aside from continued usage of Debian, which is perfectly fine on its own as well.

Finally, while I agree that Windows does have a lot of the optimizations that makes gaming worthwhile on windows, I think you have completely looked past the capability for Linux to create sandbox environments where you can either fake it, using Wine or similar to run certain windows programs, which works quite well honestly if you aren't a stupid fuck who can't follow directions....

Or you can setup a proper virtualization of Windows inside Linux using stuff like Qemu or if you really want to get into it, Qubes. With stuff like GPU passthrough, and soon, Vulkan and support in Linux for DX11 and later maybe DX12, Gaming on linux boxes is a very real possibility.

It's just a matter of time before everything you said is complete and utter bullshit.

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Posted 7/2/17

Satorules wrote:

it's free dummy it comes with the computer plus u can make a backup of it at no cost



is the computer free ? can you get Windows 7 OS (stand alone) for free?


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Posted 7/2/17 , edited 7/2/17
I've read that Windows 10 could be the last "version" of Windows. Eventually they will just have "Windows" and market it as a subscription service. Not sure if that's legit or just a rumor, but it makes a certain kind of sense.
Posted 7/2/17 , edited 7/2/17
Personally think there should be a free windows in all honesty but put like certain restrictions on it, kind of like windows 7 starters edition. Where it was limited (was only good for web browsing in all honesty) unless you upgraded to home or pro.

Linux is good & would use it but blah the newer versions don't support my laptops wifi card anymore. So stuck with windows 10 but Linux is a good free alternative if you don't want to use windows anymore. Highly recommend Linux mint in all honesty.
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38 / M / Akihibra
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Posted 7/3/17
windows is always free you can download it for backing up or upgrades they make money on the PCs and games
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Posted 7/3/17 , edited 7/3/17

ninjitsuko wrote:


Rujikin wrote:
Linux is competing. I have about 5 friends who would convert to linux right now if it wasn't for fallout/skyrim not playing on it. The main thing keeping microsoft alive in households is games. Once games move to vulkan and become platform agnostic then Microsoft is screwed and will be hanging on from businesses.

I've already converted quite a few to linux.


Even after working in IT for 18 years (off and on), I would never recommend Linux for home use. I'd rather recommend MacOS over Linux if it came down to the whole "M$ is an evil corporation hell bent on stealing muh privacies!" mentality. The thing that diverts the attention of a luser (lulz) is diversity. There's always going to be that one guy (like yourself) who will recommend something that they, personally, are using - despite not knowing that there's an army of other distributions out there that may actually be significantly better or safer. I mean look at this list of Linux distros - it's endless.

You can pick any random one that is still actively getting developed and it'll have all the features of whatever branch before it and its "parent kernel/branch" -- plus whatever odd "specialty" features that are added into the OS (like Linux Mint - which is a bastard of a bastard of a bastard). Needless to say, Linux still isn't able to compete with Windows when it comes to gaming. Vulkan may cause a slightly better multi-OS crossplay environment for those who are already on Linux but it just won't have the optimized drivers, features, and so forth that you find on Windows (or more specifically, Windows 10).

--

On Topic:

Windows XP is no longer being supported by Microsoft. Giving out free copies would be more damning to their reputation than just letting XP die in the fire that it should have died in a decade ago. Without supporting the OS altogether, the common user wouldn't be interesting due to whatever issues that may come from it (and many manufacturers wouldn't officially support it, thus forcing you to come up with your own drivers that are going to work on Windows). It's a chain reaction - small issues would become large ones over time (snowball) and nobody would even bother trying to help you with them on an official level.



Yeah. Linux is still not really ready for consumer prime time, and I kind of doubt it ever will be.

Whenever I've tried to use Linux, including Mint (and I've tried a whole load of times in the last 15 or so years) something ALWAYS eventually happen that's not all that easy to fix, and I just end up giving up right there and going back to Windows.

1. Packages don't always install properly. It's not like some self-extract file in windows where everything's simply point and click. Even stuff that come from package managers sometimes go wrong, with all those stupid infernal DEPENDENCIES

2. Sometimes that X windows manager (or whatever it is) goes wrong and the darn desktop doesn't even come up, due to some graphics driver crap. Yes there are ways of editing the darn files somewhere but I DON'T WANT TO DO IT. I don't want to look up how to do it, I don't want to learn, I don't want to go through that fuss and hassle. Why the heck even bother when everything is way easier in Windoze?

..........and that's basically the problem. Something not-so-simple (on the level of a non-Linux user) comes up sooner or later where it's a pain in the ass to fix where I basically just give up.

.......Unlike Windows where broken stuff are relatively easy to take care of. Micro$oft can make it that way because there are SALARIED WORKERS working on making it easy every workday. Do Linux devs have a real obligation to make things really easy? Nope.

Even if games move to Linux, there's also the matter of all those existing Windows games... I've got a coupla hundred Steam titles. They're not going to just ALL work in Linux.

As for WinXP, well if people really want to risk those 20 year old exploits then hey go ahead I'm sure the risk makes it extra exciting
Posted 7/3/17

Rujikin wrote:


fredreload wrote:


Rujikin wrote:

Windows XP isn't free. If it was Microsoft would go out of business as everyone would just modify it instead of buying windows 10.


Ya, no one is competing with Microsoft because it is the only operating system out there for gaming..............going to sleep night night


Linux is competing. I have about 5 friends who would convert to linux right now if it wasn't for fallout/skyrim not playing on it. The main thing keeping microsoft alive in households is games. Once games move to vulkan and become platform agnostic then Microsoft is screwed and will be hanging on from businesses.

I've already converted quite a few to linux.


"linux is competing" that's the funniest thing i've heard all day.
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Posted 7/3/17 , edited 7/3/17

nanikore2 wrote:


ninjitsuko wrote:


Rujikin wrote:
Linux is competing. I have about 5 friends who would convert to linux right now if it wasn't for fallout/skyrim not playing on it. The main thing keeping microsoft alive in households is games. Once games move to vulkan and become platform agnostic then Microsoft is screwed and will be hanging on from businesses.

I've already converted quite a few to linux.


Even after working in IT for 18 years (off and on), I would never recommend Linux for home use. I'd rather recommend MacOS over Linux if it came down to the whole "M$ is an evil corporation hell bent on stealing muh privacies!" mentality. The thing that diverts the attention of a luser (lulz) is diversity. There's always going to be that one guy (like yourself) who will recommend something that they, personally, are using - despite not knowing that there's an army of other distributions out there that may actually be significantly better or safer. I mean look at this list of Linux distros - it's endless.

You can pick any random one that is still actively getting developed and it'll have all the features of whatever branch before it and its "parent kernel/branch" -- plus whatever odd "specialty" features that are added into the OS (like Linux Mint - which is a bastard of a bastard of a bastard). Needless to say, Linux still isn't able to compete with Windows when it comes to gaming. Vulkan may cause a slightly better multi-OS crossplay environment for those who are already on Linux but it just won't have the optimized drivers, features, and so forth that you find on Windows (or more specifically, Windows 10).

--

On Topic:

Windows XP is no longer being supported by Microsoft. Giving out free copies would be more damning to their reputation than just letting XP die in the fire that it should have died in a decade ago. Without supporting the OS altogether, the common user wouldn't be interesting due to whatever issues that may come from it (and many manufacturers wouldn't officially support it, thus forcing you to come up with your own drivers that are going to work on Windows). It's a chain reaction - small issues would become large ones over time (snowball) and nobody would even bother trying to help you with them on an official level.



Yeah. Linux is still not really ready for consumer prime time, and I kind of doubt it ever will be.

Whenever I've tried to use Linux, including Mint (and I've tried a whole load of times in the last 15 or so years) something ALWAYS eventually happen that's not all that easy to fix, and I just end up giving up right there and going back to Windows.

1. Packages don't always install properly. It's not like some self-extract file in windows where everything's simply point and click. Even stuff that come from package managers sometimes go wrong, with all those stupid infernal DEPENDENCIES

2. Sometimes that X windows manager (or whatever it is) goes wrong and the darn desktop doesn't even come up, due to some graphics driver crap. Yes there are ways of editing the darn files somewhere but I DON'T WANT TO DO IT. I don't want to look up how to do it, I don't want to learn, I don't want to go through that fuss and hassle. Why the heck even bother when everything is way easier in Windoze?

..........and that's basically the problem. Something not-so-simple (on the level of a non-Linux user) comes up sooner or later where it's a pain in the ass to fix where I basically just give up.

.......Unlike Windows where broken stuff are relatively easy to take care of. Micro$oft can make it that way because there are SALARIED WORKERS working on making it easy every workday. Do Linux devs have a real obligation to make things really easy? Nope.

Even if games move to Linux, there's also the matter of all those existing Windows games... I've got a coupla hundred Steam titles. They're not going to just ALL work in Linux.

As for WinXP, well if people really want to risk those 20 year old exploits then hey go ahead I'm sure the risk makes it extra exciting


Ya, I agree it is easier to install a program on WIndows then on Linux =/. Creating something graphically is easier then creating something codingly. When I fail installing something on Linux I always got the urge to just reinstall the OS, with that said the school that uses Linux has a good way of managing the system though, peacefully
Posted 7/3/17

CrownedSonofFire wrote:
If by home user you mean a nincompoop who cannot follow basic instructions, then yeah, give them Mac OS X all day long. They need their hand held the whole way anyways. Probably best to keep that person on Windows anyways.


Nope, the issue is pretty much the vast majority as to what you and Rujikin have tried to pass off as "pros" of being a Linux user. The issue is actually the fact that most people want a "Plug and Play" device. Intelligence has nothing to do with it, it's convenience.

I'm not sure if you're old enough to remember the Lindows/Linspire ordeal - but that was a pretty prime example. It used WINE's API in order to run most Windows applications (which, at that time, most people just wanted Microsoft Office and Outlook to run). Plus, it was commercial - there were actual desktops and laptops that were being sold with Linspire installed. Mind you, they were budget computers from places like Wal*Mart and K-Mart - but they existed. Because of driver issues, Linspire not updating repositories, and constant issues with WINE (hey, it's always been crap - it's only more shiny crap these days)... the whole thing didn't take off.


CrownedSonofFire wrote:
Finally, while I agree that Windows does have a lot of the optimizations that makes gaming worthwhile on windows, I think you have completely looked past the capability for Linux to create sandbox environments where you can either fake it, using Wine or similar to run certain windows programs, which works quite well honestly if you aren't a stupid fuck who can't follow directions....


Again, they issue with virtualization and emulation (WINE) is that it requires the end user to actually investigate, do something about it, and look for these things. The reason why Windows and MacOS are popular is because they're intuitive and requires next to little setup/configuration (this can be seen in the Android/iOS debate too - even hardcore IT geeks will go to iOS because the usability is superb out-of-box - while Android may require some minor optimizations; even though this stereotype is changing as Android is becoming more "walled in" with each update).


CrownedSonofFire wrote:
It's just a matter of time before everything you said is complete and utter bullshit.


I used to be exactly like you. I've been using Slackware since the 90's - worked at Red Hat for a period of time, committed an endless array of code changes to my favorite distros, and tried to convert people to the "glory of Linux". Guess what? It's not happening. After several years, most Linux users that you convert will go to MacOS (if you're lucky) or Windows. The reason why Ubuntu and Mint are so popular is because they're closer to Windows than any other Linux distro in terms of their UI and RPMs.

It's a nice pipe dream that comes and goes with every generation. We want people to adopt Linux because it's easier on your system processes (at times), it's something you can manage (I enjoy writing my own kernel changes and drivers - until commercial companies started to put out their own drivers), and it's something that is easy to take pride in (especially when you're "sticking it to the man" like Microsoft and Apple). We all said "One day, everything you just said is going to be complete and utter bullshit" at one point -- fuck, I can even go back to some of my newsgroups or geeky forums where I've said those exact words.

At the end of the day, Linux Mint nor Ubuntu are going to be the distros that will cause a revolution. Maybe in another 30-40 years. Until then, Linux is just an OS for those who have time to fuck with their computers. You won't find someone purchasing a computer with Windows on it and installing Linux Mint the moment they get home - not unless they were already using it, at least. Red Hat was my Mint/Ubuntu - the RPM was easy to use, it was commercial, and I saw it sold in stores like Staples, Best Buy, and local computer shops. That was my "one day everything you've said stating that Linux won't take over is complete bullshit" OS.

Alas, that's not reality. It's a pleasant dream, but that's all it is. I keep Windows 10 and Slackware dual booted on any computer device I own (even my work environment). But as time progresses, I'm finding that I have less need or desire to boot into Slackware.
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Posted 7/3/17

ninjitsuko wrote:


CrownedSonofFire wrote:
If by home user you mean a nincompoop who cannot follow basic instructions, then yeah, give them Mac OS X all day long. They need their hand held the whole way anyways. Probably best to keep that person on Windows anyways.


Nope, the issue is pretty much the vast majority as to what you and Rujikin have tried to pass off as "pros" of being a Linux user. The issue is actually the fact that most people want a "Plug and Play" device. Intelligence has nothing to do with it, it's convenience.

I'm not sure if you're old enough to remember the Lindows/Linspire ordeal - but that was a pretty prime example. It used WINE's API in order to run most Windows applications (which, at that time, most people just wanted Microsoft Office and Outlook to run). Plus, it was commercial - there were actual desktops and laptops that were being sold with Linspire installed. Mind you, they were budget computers from places like Wal*Mart and K-Mart - but they existed. Because of driver issues, Linspire not updating repositories, and constant issues with WINE (hey, it's always been crap - it's only more shiny crap these days)... the whole thing didn't take off.


CrownedSonofFire wrote:
Finally, while I agree that Windows does have a lot of the optimizations that makes gaming worthwhile on windows, I think you have completely looked past the capability for Linux to create sandbox environments where you can either fake it, using Wine or similar to run certain windows programs, which works quite well honestly if you aren't a stupid fuck who can't follow directions....


Again, they issue with virtualization and emulation (WINE) is that it requires the end user to actually investigate, do something about it, and look for these things. The reason why Windows and MacOS are popular is because they're intuitive and requires next to little setup/configuration (this can be seen in the Android/iOS debate too - even hardcore IT geeks will go to iOS because the usability is superb out-of-box - while Android may require some minor optimizations; even though this stereotype is changing as Android is becoming more "walled in" with each update).


CrownedSonofFire wrote:
It's just a matter of time before everything you said is complete and utter bullshit.


I used to be exactly like you. I've been using Slackware since the 90's - worked at Red Hat for a period of time, committed an endless array of code changes to my favorite distros, and tried to convert people to the "glory of Linux". Guess what? It's not happening. After several years, most Linux users that you convert will go to MacOS (if you're lucky) or Windows. The reason why Ubuntu and Mint are so popular is because they're closer to Windows than any other Linux distro in terms of their UI and RPMs.

It's a nice pipe dream that comes and goes with every generation. We want people to adopt Linux because it's easier on your system processes (at times), it's something you can manage (I enjoy writing my own kernel changes and drivers - until commercial companies started to put out their own drivers), and it's something that is easy to take pride in (especially when you're "sticking it to the man" like Microsoft and Apple). We all said "One day, everything you just said is going to be complete and utter bullshit" at one point -- fuck, I can even go back to some of my newsgroups or geeky forums where I've said those exact words.

At the end of the day, Linux Mint nor Ubuntu are going to be the distros that will cause a revolution. Maybe in another 30-40 years. Until then, Linux is just an OS for those who have time to fuck with their computers. You won't find someone purchasing a computer with Windows on it and installing Linux Mint the moment they get home - not unless they were already using it, at least. Red Hat was my Mint/Ubuntu - the RPM was easy to use, it was commercial, and I saw it sold in stores like Staples, Best Buy, and local computer shops. That was my "one day everything you've said stating that Linux won't take over is complete bullshit" OS.

Alas, that's not reality. It's a pleasant dream, but that's all it is. I keep Windows 10 and Slackware dual booted on any computer device I own (even my work environment). But as time progresses, I'm finding that I have less need or desire to boot into Slackware.


Well, there's gotta be a reason why schools choose Linux over Windows. Perhaps superior networking or security?
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