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Should windows 7 be free?
Posted 7/3/17 , edited 7/3/17

fredreload wrote:
Well, there's gotta be a reason why schools choose Linux over Windows. Perhaps superior networking or security?


Over here, most schools are using Windows or ChromeOS at the moment. The school my girlfriend works at is using Windows exclusively for all desktops and laptops; iOS (iPads) for student education otherwise.

Even when I configured my hometown's network (for the whole county), they used Windows-based PCs with a few UNIX boxes for servers (mostly to hold information from DOS-based OS'es for secretaries and principles to input suspensions and student information into). Nothing has really changed over the years. ChromeOS is becoming more used in public schools because they're cheaper than Windows or MacOS machines. I guess you could argue that ChromeOS is a Linux distro - but it's more so used for the Google Classroom cloud platform than anything else.
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Posted 7/3/17 , edited 7/3/17

ninjitsuko wrote:


fredreload wrote:
Well, there's gotta be a reason why schools choose Linux over Windows. Perhaps superior networking or security?


Over here, most schools are using Windows or ChromeOS at the moment. The school my girlfriend works at is using Windows exclusively for all desktops and laptops; iOS (iPads) for student education otherwise.

Even when I configured my hometown's network (for the whole county), they used Windows-based PCs with a few UNIX boxes for servers (mostly to hold information from DOS-based OS'es for secretaries and principles to input suspensions and student information into). Nothing has really changed over the years. ChromeOS is becoming more used in public schools because they're cheaper than Windows or MacOS machines. I guess you could argue that ChromeOS is a Linux distro - but it's more so used for the Google Classroom cloud platform than anything else.


Hmm, Linux is an operating system that does not crash. The only way for it to exit abnomally is if the computer ran out of power. I think Microsoft can learn from this architecture.
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Posted 7/3/17 , edited 7/3/17

fredreload wrote:


ninjitsuko wrote:


fredreload wrote:
Well, there's gotta be a reason why schools choose Linux over Windows. Perhaps superior networking or security?


Over here, most schools are using Windows or ChromeOS at the moment. The school my girlfriend works at is using Windows exclusively for all desktops and laptops; iOS (iPads) for student education otherwise.

Even when I configured my hometown's network (for the whole county), they used Windows-based PCs with a few UNIX boxes for servers (mostly to hold information from DOS-based OS'es for secretaries and principles to input suspensions and student information into). Nothing has really changed over the years. ChromeOS is becoming more used in public schools because they're cheaper than Windows or MacOS machines. I guess you could argue that ChromeOS is a Linux distro - but it's more so used for the Google Classroom cloud platform than anything else.


Hmm, Linux is an operating system that does not crash. The only way for it to exit abnomally is if the computer ran out of power. I think Microsoft can learn from this architecture.


it does crash though not often but it does.
Posted 7/3/17 , edited 7/3/17

fredreload wrote:

Hmm, Linux is an operating system that does not crash. The only way for it to exit abnomally is if the computer ran out of power. I think Microsoft can learn from this architecture.


I suggest you Google the term "kernel panic". Linux-based operating systems crash just as frequently as Windows and MacOS.

Back in the old days (15+ years ago) it was uncommon for *nix operating systems to crash much. But as time progressed, Windows and MacOS stabilized a bit and Linux is still hit or miss (depending on any optimizations you do and packaged you install).
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Posted 7/3/17 , edited 7/3/17

ninjitsuko wrote:


fredreload wrote:

Hmm, Linux is an operating system that does not crash. The only way for it to exit abnomally is if the computer ran out of power. I think Microsoft can learn from this architecture.


I suggest you Google the term "kernel panic". Linux-based operating systems crash just as frequently as Windows and MacOS.

Back in the old days (15+ years ago) it was uncommon for *nix operating systems to crash much. But as time progressed, Windows and MacOS stabilized a bit and Linux is still hit or miss (depending on any optimizations you do and packaged you install).


Hey ninjitsuko, can you get me a job if I return to the state? Somewhere in California, possibly
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Posted 7/3/17 , edited 7/3/17
I have also never paid for a Microsoft product in my entire life I got them for free including office 365 pro plus and no in the USA I am not a pirate I am to scared to be one even with a vpn. Between working at Microsoft full time and not as a contractor I have gotten loads of stuff for free from Redmond campus and my college was part of the Microsoft library campus program or what ever it was called not sure if its still popular these days with people not getting desktop PC's but it meant you could check out legit Microsoft programs for yourself for free and activate them with a individual product key you get from the librarian.
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Posted 7/3/17 , edited 7/3/17

ninjitsuko wrote:


CrownedSonofFire wrote:
If by home user you mean a nincompoop who cannot follow basic instructions, then yeah, give them Mac OS X all day long. They need their hand held the whole way anyways. Probably best to keep that person on Windows anyways.


Nope, the issue is pretty much the vast majority as to what you and Rujikin have tried to pass off as "pros" of being a Linux user. The issue is actually the fact that most people want a "Plug and Play" device. Intelligence has nothing to do with it, it's convenience.

I'm not sure if you're old enough to remember the Lindows/Linspire ordeal - but that was a pretty prime example. It used WINE's API in order to run most Windows applications (which, at that time, most people just wanted Microsoft Office and Outlook to run). Plus, it was commercial - there were actual desktops and laptops that were being sold with Linspire installed. Mind you, they were budget computers from places like Wal*Mart and K-Mart - but they existed. Because of driver issues, Linspire not updating repositories, and constant issues with WINE (hey, it's always been crap - it's only more shiny crap these days)... the whole thing didn't take off.


CrownedSonofFire wrote:
Finally, while I agree that Windows does have a lot of the optimizations that makes gaming worthwhile on windows, I think you have completely looked past the capability for Linux to create sandbox environments where you can either fake it, using Wine or similar to run certain windows programs, which works quite well honestly if you aren't a stupid fuck who can't follow directions....


Again, they issue with virtualization and emulation (WINE) is that it requires the end user to actually investigate, do something about it, and look for these things. The reason why Windows and MacOS are popular is because they're intuitive and requires next to little setup/configuration (this can be seen in the Android/iOS debate too - even hardcore IT geeks will go to iOS because the usability is superb out-of-box - while Android may require some minor optimizations; even though this stereotype is changing as Android is becoming more "walled in" with each update).


CrownedSonofFire wrote:
It's just a matter of time before everything you said is complete and utter bullshit.


I used to be exactly like you. I've been using Slackware since the 90's - worked at Red Hat for a period of time, committed an endless array of code changes to my favorite distros, and tried to convert people to the "glory of Linux". Guess what? It's not happening. After several years, most Linux users that you convert will go to MacOS (if you're lucky) or Windows. The reason why Ubuntu and Mint are so popular is because they're closer to Windows than any other Linux distro in terms of their UI and RPMs.

It's a nice pipe dream that comes and goes with every generation. We want people to adopt Linux because it's easier on your system processes (at times), it's something you can manage (I enjoy writing my own kernel changes and drivers - until commercial companies started to put out their own drivers), and it's something that is easy to take pride in (especially when you're "sticking it to the man" like Microsoft and Apple). We all said "One day, everything you just said is going to be complete and utter bullshit" at one point -- fuck, I can even go back to some of my newsgroups or geeky forums where I've said those exact words.

At the end of the day, Linux Mint nor Ubuntu are going to be the distros that will cause a revolution. Maybe in another 30-40 years. Until then, Linux is just an OS for those who have time to fuck with their computers. You won't find someone purchasing a computer with Windows on it and installing Linux Mint the moment they get home - not unless they were already using it, at least. Red Hat was my Mint/Ubuntu - the RPM was easy to use, it was commercial, and I saw it sold in stores like Staples, Best Buy, and local computer shops. That was my "one day everything you've said stating that Linux won't take over is complete bullshit" OS.

Alas, that's not reality. It's a pleasant dream, but that's all it is. I keep Windows 10 and Slackware dual booted on any computer device I own (even my work environment). But as time progresses, I'm finding that I have less need or desire to boot into Slackware.


Lindows/Linspire: Oh yeah, I remember that. It's actually what got me started with linux of all things, so I know what you are talking about.(I'm actually a bit older than you seem to think I am.)

Wine: The problem is that you people try to treat it like it's a fucking emulator. The answer to this is in the name of the program. Though you aren't really wrong that it can be troublesome at times, to say it's crap is a bit... off. Wine is just trying to make windows stuff work in an enviroment you either installed a vanilla version of, or built yourself. If Wine isn't working, it's either because you aren't doing something right, or it just can't be done... yet. To say it is crap though, is a bit much. Though truthfully this is part of why I mention full on virtualization, using linux as the main OS and having windows run through a sandbox with GPU passthrough. Much better than using Wine, as I am sure you could agree.


Convenience: You are correct through and through. Convenience will always win out because simpletons can't be bothered to try something different now and then. The easiest and quickest path will always have the most foot prints so they say. That doesn't necessarily mean it is the best path however. The most commonly tread path is more often the lowest/worst one.

Proof of concept? All of the privacy issues as of late with Windows ring a bell? How about all the security issues? This isnt' to say that Linux cannot be hacked or siphoned from, but because Windows is so damn commonplace, stupid shit like Wannacry is a real thing, that only exists because of simpletons and convenience. (IMHO at least)

You say that I remind you of you from when you were younger because of the one line I said.

Thing is, I am only saying that now, when Linux actually has a chance to pull it off.

You were saying it when it really was just a pipe dream. Vulkan for example wasn't even a sparkle in anyone's eyes yet. Many things that Linux has a future in now, it didn't have almost at all back when you saying it.

But by all means, misappropriate your memories onto my current doings.

Linux will eventually take over. It's just a matter of time. LIke you said yourself, Ubuntu and Mint are popular because they remind people of Windows. In time, it will be just as convenient for windows users to use these or other distros instead of windows or mac. At that time, these distros will be the gateway for people like me. Gamers.

And we will be the ones to pull Linux the rest of the way through the market share gap that currently keeps linux as a neat side project in a lot of cases.


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Posted 7/3/17 , edited 7/3/17

gsm642 wrote:

I have also never paid for a Microsoft product in my entire life I got them for free including office 365 pro plus and no in the USA I am not a pirate I am to scared to be one even with a vpn. Between working at Microsoft full time and not as a contractor I have gotten loads of stuff for free from Redmond campus and my college was part of the Microsoft library campus program or what ever it was called not sure if its still popular these days with people not getting desktop PC's but it meant you could check out legit Microsoft programs for yourself for free and activate them with a individual product key you get from the librarian.


How much do you get paid?


ninjitsuko wrote:


fredreload wrote:

Hmm, Linux is an operating system that does not crash. The only way for it to exit abnomally is if the computer ran out of power. I think Microsoft can learn from this architecture.


I suggest you Google the term "kernel panic". Linux-based operating systems crash just as frequently as Windows and MacOS.

Back in the old days (15+ years ago) it was uncommon for *nix operating systems to crash much. But as time progressed, Windows and MacOS stabilized a bit and Linux is still hit or miss (depending on any optimizations you do and packaged you install).


Ya, I suppose I am biased about Microsoft not being a good operating system, you proved me wrong
Posted 7/3/17 , edited 7/3/17

CrownedSonofFire wrote:
Lindows/Linspire: Oh yeah, I remember that. It's actually what got me started with Linux of all things, so I know what you are talking about.(I'm actually a bit older than you seem to think I am.)

Wine: The problem is that you people try to treat it like it's a fucking emulator. The answer to this is in the name of the program. Though you aren't really wrong that it can be troublesome at times, to say it's crap is a bit... off. Wine is just trying to make windows stuff work in an enviroment you either installed a vanilla version of, or built yourself. If Wine isn't working, it's either because you aren't doing something right, or it just can't be done... yet. To say it is crap though, is a bit much. Though truthfully this is part of why I mention full on virtualization, using linux as the main OS and having windows run through a sandbox with GPU passthrough. Much better than using Wine, as I am sure you could agree.


Five years can be a big gap in terms of views, especially when it comes to technology. Linspire/Lindows was sort of a thing that not too many (even among *nix fanboys at the time) were too aware of when it happened.

As for WINE, it's crap because virtualization is the more genuine method of approaching things (or even dual booting between a Windows OS and *Nix one). Most WINE-based issues are due to your second point, that it simply cannot be done (yet). It's like suggesting someone should use Parallels on MacOS instead of just using Boot Camp - sure, most things will run in Parallel but the few issues you experience are the ones that will be damning as a pain point for those who aren't technologically "savvy".


CrownedSonofFire wrote:
Convenience: You are correct through and through. Convenience will always win out because simpletons can't be bothered to try something different now and then. The easiest and quickest path will always have the most footprints so they say. That doesn't necessarily mean it is the best path however. The most commonly tread path is more often the lowest/worst one.

Proof of concept? All of the privacy issues as of late with Windows ring a bell? How about all the security issues? This isnt' to say that Linux cannot be hacked or siphoned from, but because Windows is so damn commonplace, stupid shit like Wannacry is a real thing, that only exists because of simpletons and convenience. (IMHO at least)


These talking points are the ones that reminded me of myself, back when I was a "*nix fanboy". Convenience is something that is going to take more priority than that of anything else as time progresses. Technology is being simplified, streamlined, and people expect it to function in a certain way without having to try something different. Back in the day when I was hoping that one day that Linux would pick up and everyone would use it - all technology had a smorgasbord of issues. Windows 98SE/XP/ME were clusterfucks and Windows 2000 was the closest thing to a stable Windows OS you could get your hands on. Now? Well, let's lead to your next point:

Yes, Windows is commonplace/mainstream. It has been since the 90's and it will continue to do so for quite a while down the road. Remember when Mac fanatics would swear up and down that it was "impossible to crash MacintoshOS/Mac OSX" or it was "impossible to get a virus on MacOS/OSX"? Yeah, that's because it wasn't even remotely close to commonplace. While Apple had their following (and still do), their products are aimed towards a niche demographic. The demographic between Windows and Linux ("I've heard that Mac doesn't get as many viruses, that it's more secure, and Apple has better build quality." or "All my friends have it.." [fashion statement]) is where MacOS/Apple fits in. Everyone uses Windows at some point in their life. The more that people move to another operating system, the more likely that malicious code (malware and viruses) will be developed for it. Case and point - MacOS is starting to see a rise in malware over the last 5-6 years because of this very same trend. Linux would, undoubtedly, fall into the same scenario after a period of time.


CrownedSonofFire wrote:
You say that I remind you of you from when you were younger because of the one line I said.

Thing is, I am only saying that now, when Linux actually has a chance to pull it off.

You were saying it when it really was just a pipe dream. Vulkan for example wasn't even a sparkle in anyone's eyes yet. Many things that Linux has a future in now, it didn't have almost at all back when you saying it.

But by all means, misappropriate your memories onto my current doings.


Oh, it wasn't just one thing. Your posts read as though I reached through the Wayback Machine and are reaching archived posts of my own. It's always some new tech that was going to make Linux the "greatest and most amazing" thing that will cause it to take over the common marketplace for operating systems. Vulkan is absolutely no different than any of the other endless things that *nix geeks got their panties in a bundle over in the last 20 years. All of us *nix geeks have pushed our preference of OS onto other people - let's try this amazing new distro of Linux! It'll be amazing.. it'll be great.

Then you realize that all of those friends and family members you've pushed onto Linux want to try something new that's only available on XYZ operating system. Or they have dependencies that are missing and they can't install updates or a new app their friend suggested because they're not on Windows/MacOS. Almost every IT professional I've spoken to that are ages 25-45 all say the same thing, "I got tired of having to use remote desktop to fix something for my parents/grandparents/sister/brother/best friend. They got a new computer and I just said to hell with being free technical support for them - Windows/MacOS is stable enough." There are a handful that are still focusing on that pipe dream of a Linux master race one day - they refuse to budge from their favorite distro, they have all of their family members (wife, kids, themselves, in-laws, parents) on the same distro. They still gripe about how those who are on Windows are "slaves to Microsoft" or "mindless, incompetent fools".


CrownedSonofFire wrote:
Linux will eventually take over. It's just a matter of time. LIke you said yourself, Ubuntu and Mint are popular because they remind people of Windows. In time, it will be just as convenient for windows users to use these or other distros instead of windows or mac. At that time, these distros will be the gateway for people like me. Gamers.

And we will be the ones to pull Linux the rest of the way through the market share gap that currently keeps Linux as a neat side project in a lot of cases.


No, Linux won't eventually take over. There's not enough time in the world. Vulkan will just be yet another dream of *nix fanboys that haven't quite understood that convenience will always rule over "the more difficult path". Again, these things you're saying have been said a million times before and they'll be said a million times more. At the end of the day, the reality is that Linux distros will only take over when commercialization happens and a distro finally decides to close off the essentials behind a wall (so the end user cannot access them) and stop focusing on KDE/GNOME (and branches of either) - instead to create an overall UI (Ubuntu attempted with Unity, but it's just too old-school) that parallels Windows and/or MacOS.

The end users are the ones you have to think about. Not the curious gamer, not the guy fed up with Microsoft exploits and security issues...
The end user. The college student that wants to get their parents to buy them a laptop for taking notes, the middle aged guy who wants to have a computer that doesn't exhaust more than 10-15 minutes to troubleshoot an issue because their kid didn't know what they were doing, the single mother who already works 80+ hours a week and doesn't want a new computer that takes forever to setup/configure...

Again: look at the Android and iOS reference I made earlier. This is how technology is evolving. You can tap your old phone onto your new phone and it knows what apps to install, what contacts to add, what your wifi password is, what your home and work addresses are for traffic data, and what your high score is on some random game that you installed randomly. Linux is faaaaaar from this. MacOS and Windows are both navigating towards a unified platform between devices. Windows connects to Android devices through Cortana, Apple has a unified platform between tablet, phone, and desktop/laptop (this is the "goal" of most competing companies - even Ubuntu tried this but they haven't the manpower, experience, or professionalism to tackle it).

Until a Linux distribution reaches this point - Linux is just going to be a hobbyist operating system or the OS behind web services. That's just the world of technology/IT in general. You don't pitch to the outliers, you pitch to the common person. The outliers are going to use whatever they think is going to make them seem more enlightened (MacOS was the first stage, now a new wave of Linux users are in the same mindset). Windows isn't perfect, but it sure is convenient for the time being. Gaming is just one of the "points" that Linux will need to tackle. The convenience and accessibility are the other two.
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Posted 7/10/17 , edited 7/10/17

gsm642 wrote:

I have also never paid for a Microsoft product in my entire life I got them for free including office 365 pro plus and no in the USA I am not a pirate I am to scared to be one even with a vpn. Between working at Microsoft full time and not as a contractor I have gotten loads of stuff for free from Redmond campus and my college was part of the Microsoft library campus program or what ever it was called not sure if its still popular these days with people not getting desktop PC's but it meant you could check out legit Microsoft programs for yourself for free and activate them with a individual product key you get from the librarian.


there's nothing wrong with being a pirate in some countries. especially when the official products cost more than what the people there will make in a MONTH!!! Most of the people in those countries pirated because they just can't afford it.

What are they going to do?? sue them ? what :? people who are making $5-$7 a day ? good luck!!

Do we have a lot of people in the US suing homeless/living in poverty people before?

1st rule of suing (beside making sure you have a case) --- Make sure they can pay up.
Posted 7/12/17 , edited 7/12/17



Now now Microsoft still deserves a break , as much as I have problems about the operating system crashing and not being a hierarchial system it still functions a bit more efficient than the Linux system, well I've only ran Linux system on Virtual Box so I can't say.

Anyhow I'm not against Linux system, if it runs the game Black Desert Online, I'd convert to it for it's stable platform.

With that said I am not anywhere as experienced as the tech giants on the operating systems, this is more of a consumer analysis


they've been given breaks upon breaks upon breaks in the form of no antitrust lawsuits, not to mention the bullying and coding thefts and....dare I mention the handing of the nsa their very own root certificate key to all windows OSes since the "oh so important" win98SE updates.

fully in bed with .gov.
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Posted 7/12/17 , edited 7/13/17

jolietjoe wrote:




Now now Microsoft still deserves a break , as much as I have problems about the operating system crashing and not being a hierarchial system it still functions a bit more efficient than the Linux system, well I've only ran Linux system on Virtual Box so I can't say.

Anyhow I'm not against Linux system, if it runs the game Black Desert Online, I'd convert to it for it's stable platform.

With that said I am not anywhere as experienced as the tech giants on the operating systems, this is more of a consumer analysis


they've been given breaks upon breaks upon breaks in the form of no antitrust lawsuits, not to mention the bullying and coding thefts and....dare I mention the handing of the nsa their very own root certificate key to all windows OSes since the "oh so important" win98SE updates.

fully in bed with .gov.


I am currently using Windows 10, my Windows 7 hardly crashes, but my Windows 10 crashes from incompatible video drivers with Nvidia all the time. I've became a test user and switched to slow ring with Windows 10 version 16323, but the crashes still happen, I think I have to upgrade my video driver, but even then other problems might come up.

Even though Windows 7 hardly crashes but it is slightly less efficient than Windows 10, either that or it is because I am using an older computer to run Windows 7. Either way I could not install Windows 7 on the new computer because I do not have the reg key anymore.
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