First  Prev  1  2  3  4  5  6  Next  Last
Post Reply Feminism! Whats Wrong? Whats right?
5344 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
24
Offline
Posted 6/29/17 , edited 6/29/17
So I want to open a discussion about modern feminism and some of the things that are wrong with this movement. This is from my point of view (opinion) so I know many of you will disagree but that doesn't mean we can't have opposing opinions and discuss them openly. If you wish to paint a picture of why modern feminism is right then by all means go ahead. I am willing to entertain both sides of the fence, but please use logic in your arguments and refrain from becoming heated/emotional.

Points of Discussion

1)So first things first Feminism can be defined by most feminists as the movement concerned on equality for all people.(Gender equality)

I have a problem with this premise being claimed as the basis of their movement... as I believe that this movement (Modern Feminism) is not about equality for everyone as much as it is about women being more equal to the men's detriment. At one point the movement was focused on "leveling the playing field" so to speak, and it did wonders to remove the aspects of society that disadvantaged women. But has done little to correct the disadvantages faced by men.

If it were truly about equality why would feminist's create their own special name (that implies it is about them not everyone) for a doctrine that has existed for centuries.

E.G. Egalitarianism (the doctrine that all people are equal and deserve equal rights and opportunities.) Egalitarian doctrines maintain that all humans are equal in fundamental worth or social status.

I ask why create two different "movements/doctrines" if they both have the same end goal in mind?(Gender Equality) I'll tell my opinion why I think this is, it is because feminism is not truly about equality for everyone. It caters to be more equal to women while being heavily biased against men. It also promotes the collective unwillingness to acknowledge men's issues that we happen to face.

The modern incarnation of feminism (in my opinion) has lost its roots and is focused more about women's superiority as opposed to equality. If it was about equality for everyone why aren't feminists fighting tooth and nail to combat the inequality of the justice system in regards to custodial decisions of children after divorce where there is a heavy bias against the man and the woman gets granted custody the child in approximately 75% of the cases (+ or - 10%.)

Why are women's claims of being raped accepted and considered to be more significant than a man's claim of being raped. Even mentioning that men can be raped too elicits ridicule and dismissal of the man's plight and is often accompanied by jokes made on the expense of the man's terrible experience. If men were to do this to women they would be outraged at the lack of "equality" concerning their struggles. Men would be instantly seen as the villain and as sadistic for even daring to joke about women being raped.

It's in the name FEMinism.

This implies females are what the movement is truly focused about and not about equality for all. So in my opinion at this point in time I don't consider the argument that "No Feminism truly is about everyone being equal" is a valid explanation to justify the hatred, mistrust, and strain between the sexes that is seen in society.

2) Why do feminists always resort to Shaming Tactics when challenged to defend their position. Shaming tactics are but a device to shut down debate. They are intended to draw out sympathy for women while painting the men who ask questions as tyrants/demons thus "discrediting" their world view.

You know it's really disconcerting to me that asking the hard questions in life as opposed to just blindly accepting the "norm" leads to a these sort of responses. Of which most amount to the Ad Hominem fallacy which do little to foster discussion and ultimately provide a way to undermine someones case without actually having to engage it.

Ad Hominem - You attacked your opponent's character or personal traits in an attempt to undermine their argument.
https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/ad-hominem (You can refer to this website if you don't understand logical fallacies.

By attacking logical arguments though these Shaming Tactics Feminists are in fact revealing that the foundation of their beliefs is but a house of cards and can withstand little pressure before falling apart into pieces.

Another Shaming Tactic that is used to undermine discussion is to appeal to what is "popular culture/trending" nowadays. They argue that "most of society" agree with their points of view and thus it is true! Lets remember though that popular opinion/culture does not decide whether something is true. It is insignificant when in search for the truth.

Here's an example (not related to feminism) of how popular opinion does not mean that one can automatically assume the majorities position is the correct answer.

Asch's Conformity experiment. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qA-gbpt7Ts8


3) Expanding a bit on #1.

Why is it that mistreatment of Males on the part of Females and Society is a direct consequence of this feminism. Why is it that a group of individuals who preaches "equality for all" turns around and mistreats the "other equal" because "the law is on my side". Are they truly considering themselves equal if they behave in this manner, or is it not based on a sense of superiority.

It's a bit hypocritical to me and I must invoke a parallel example through the fact that slavery was "legal" in it's time and accepted. Masters could mistreat their slaves like property and they were justified in their actions by the Law of the Land (Which can't be wrong cus it's the law right?). Would anybody today argue that slavery was morally correct? Would anyone argue that since the law was on the masters side he was justified in his actions. Would anyone say the master was in the right and everyone who thought differently was wrong. (We must remember it was popular opinion back then)

Back to the issue at hand why is it that men's issues are being largely dismissed and deligitimized, but women's issues hold the top priority in what amounts to a worldview of "equality for all". As a man even daring to mention that there exist men's issues that need to be addressed is met with the accusations of being privileged or a misogynist. But I ask do men not face issues in everyday life too? Is our plight of less importance than theirs? Are we not EQUAL as is claimed?

This type of argument an appeal to pity (Argumentum ad Misericordiam) is inherently fallacious and yet time and time again this trick in the bag allows Feminists to avoid discussing how they reached their conclusion. There are other ways of stating your point in a manner that allows others from "outside" your world view to reach the same conclusion you have presented.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_pity

Feminists will try to rationalize by claiming women were always on the losing side of things and that this is simply justice. And the reasoning behind this is the dichotomy that women are victimized and males cannot be victims as they are the perpetrators who do the victimizing.I mean lets be real how could the victims become the perpetrators it's preposterous! Essentially we can no longer claim injustice against us because we once imposed them upon you.

Once again the way they frame the arguments leads to the conclusion that the feminist movement is largely there to promote change in regards to female issues. But it is highly biased against men, shown in the utter dismissal and active resistance to the discussion of knowledge regarding men's issues that displays what men have to deal with in the real world. This is important knowledge that could allow someone insight into how men are treated unjustly by society.

What injustices you say?

Don't men enjoy all the privileges in this patriarchal society? They don't have to worry about being raped, facing domestic violence,etc! (I am no expert in this so feel free to chime in with additional issues that should be addressed.)

Some examples of men's issues that should be discussed and taken seriously instead of being ignored/laughed at in an "everyone is equal world" would be...

Men are more likely to develop schizophrenia, autism, alcohol addiction, commit suicide,become homeless. be sentenced to longer periods of time in prison for comparable crimes, men are not subject to equal physical fitness standards as women inside of the military.

https://www.revolvy.com/topic/Army%20Physical%20Fitness%20Test&item_type=topic

Is the collective unwillingness and denial of the fact that men face these issues not a slight to the "equality for all" principle that feminists claim to live by. I can already see some of you thinking/saying that it's "not my concern"/"its the men's fault" they are in jail, addicted to alcohol but that is victim blaming and beside the point.

I am not blaming feminists for these problems or the problems men face as it's more complex than that. I am simply stating that feminism does nothing to contribute to a solution for these issues that should hold the same weight in a truly "equal for all" society. If feminism was truly concerned with true gender equality it would focus on male concerns being of equal importance to female concerns.

I see Feminism pretending to be something that it really isn't (Wolf in sheep's clothing) and I feel like discussion of the topic might lead to insight on both sides of the topic.You are welcome to expand on this or argue against it.

Hopefully we can discuss this like rational adults.

880 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
24 / Mississippi
Offline
Posted 6/29/17 , edited 6/29/17


859 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
25 / F / PA, USA
Offline
Posted 6/29/17
Masculinity/manhood is perceived as "the enemy." It's being drummed in, folks are taught to not question it, and dissent is met with aggression. It has been hijacked by a focus on vengeance, as well as overridden by manipulators. Inferiority complexes are particularly abundant. People are told that they are perpetual victims, and many buy into it. Shades of this have existed from the beginning, but now it's terribly festered.
Posted 6/29/17
*sigh* Here we go.
2499 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
Offline
Posted 6/29/17 , edited 6/29/17
gender equality and women can do anything men can --- is the message I'm getting from the feminist movement -- until the extremists took over long ago imo.. now they just want stuff without doing much work simply because they are women

They want women to be CEOs and getting higher pay etc.. There are women who are CEOs out there but I'm sure they didn't get there by whining.


There are other fields where they are recruiting women but few would want to join .. public works? police? fire fighting? military? mechanic? , etc.. i'm sure there are plenty of fields that could use a more women

There are fields dominated by men as there are fields that dominated by women.

Modeling- this is one of the fields where women are making a LOT more than men
http://fortune.com/2015/07/15/male-models-pay/


Please, if you want gender equality be sure to apply it to all fields, not just where it is convenience for you. I think it's about time men get paid maternity leave no ??
llunga 
4175 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
Mᴇᴡɴɪ
Offline
Posted 6/29/17

weipop wrote:

*sigh* Here we go.


5028 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
21 / F / The Cat Empire
Online
Posted 6/29/17 , edited 6/29/17
]


Misandrists are the ones saying women are superior to men. They are not feminists, though they'll probably claim to be



also:




5344 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
24
Offline
Posted 6/29/17 , edited 6/29/17


Cool picture bro too bad it ignores the reality we are facing.

Fair enough that is a way to look at things. And while saying the movement may have gotten hijacked/used by Misandrists for their purposes it doesn't change the fact that a portion of the "feminist" movement is ruining the whole reason the social progress was started for.

Equality of all.
1159 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
28
Offline
Posted 6/29/17
I quite appreciate hearing a female's well considered perspective on this. According to the new rules, guys aren't allowed to weigh in. We're all manipulators and abusive jerks is why.
5028 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
21 / F / The Cat Empire
Online
Posted 6/29/17 , edited 6/30/17

ad_arbitrium wrote:

I quite appreciate hearing a female's well considered perspective on this. According to the new rules, guys aren't allowed to weigh in. We're all manipulators and abusive jerks is why.


i'm a lady. guys can be cool. ladies can also be manipulative and jerks..

Both guys and ladies can have a say their opinion, but neither should have a higher authority in what the other gender should say, do, behave, whatever..
5358 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
Offline
Posted 6/29/17 , edited 6/30/17
Women are better than men I can vouch for it.
1159 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
28
Offline
Posted 6/29/17
Well don't stand too close then. I might victimize you ... 'cuz you're, you know, helpless.
5028 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
21 / F / The Cat Empire
Online
Posted 6/29/17 , edited 6/29/17

ad_arbitrium wrote:

Well don't stand too close then. I might victimize you ... 'cuz you're, you know, helpless.



but im not tho lol

There's a bunch of strong women out there, ya know



1159 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
28
Offline
Posted 6/29/17 , edited 6/29/17
good. I like it better when they fight back






Really though I don't know what goes on in most guys' heads. If only you knew just how insecure most of us are
27962 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
28 / M
Offline
Posted 6/29/17
Modern day feminism is poisoning the well for everyone that came before them. How much you get paid is all up to how much you negotiate and women are less likely to fight for what they are worth. Managers know that and take advantage of it. That's why a base pay is necessary and raises should be based on seniority. Leaves room for lazy people sure. But everyone gets treated the same. Maternity/Paternity leave should also be equal. Divorce, custody and child support terms should be equal. The US needs to get smarter when it comes to gender roles.
First  Prev  1  2  3  4  5  6  Next  Last
You must be logged in to post.