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Post Reply Feminism! Whats Wrong? Whats right?
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20 / M / Winnipeg, MB.
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Posted 6/29/17
Some of the posts here only go to show why feminism is necessary.
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Posted 6/29/17
^^^ some of the posts here show why a pandemic really wouldn't be such a bad thing
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Posted 6/29/17 , edited 6/29/17

GundamQueen wrote:

I am a Feminist but I don't support Feminazis. The Alt-Right are worse in my opinion.


same! I am also a feminist but do not support misandrists! uuuuhh The alt-right is awful, yes, but misandrists and them are kinda similar in a way i guess..



MrAnimeSK wrote:


Feminazis have a far greater impact (negative impact) on western society than any far right wingers.


theres a bunch of right wing terrorists LOL


SchlomoShekelberg wrote:

Feminism is very unnatural and goes against the laws of nature. It's incompatible with reality. TLDR: Feminism is nothing more than a woman's way of demanding she be taken care of and given free stuff.


No. It isn't. We need feminism. Some more than others (like women who have been attacked by acid, and young girls who are forced into marriages, and women who are treated as property )




octorockandroll wrote:

Some of the posts here only go to show why feminism is necessary.

^^ ^^^ ^^


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Acid Attack










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Posted 6/29/17
Modern feminism is no longer about equality. It is a movement that endorses man-hating and double standards in western societies while ignoring real instances of crimes against women in less fortunate countries.
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Posted 6/29/17

Shipwright wrote:

Modern feminism is no longer about equality. It is a movement that endorses man-hating and double standards in western societies while ignoring real instances of crimes against women in less fortunate countries.


this^^^
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Posted 6/29/17
Feminism is cancer and has NO redeeming qualities.
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ah! meet the parents! and male nurses

Meet the Parents (1/11) Best Movie Quote - Male Nurse Catheter (2000)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQv6PV9wSjg

Meet the Parents (dinner scene-- why not going for your MD instead of being a nurse)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hmhGzTEGa70

Yes. it's a movie but they are pretty spot on.
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Posted 6/29/17 , edited 6/29/17

Some of the posts here only go to show why feminism is necessary.


Can you please expand on your statement and provide some evidence to support it?

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Posted 6/29/17

serifsansserif wrote:


MysticGon wrote:

Modern day feminism is poisoning the well for everyone that came before them. How much you get paid is all up to how much you negotiate and women are less likely to fight for what they are worth. Managers know that and take advantage of it. That's why a base pay is necessary and raises should be based on seniority. Leaves room for lazy people sure. But everyone gets treated the same. Maternity/Paternity leave should also be equal. Divorce, custody and child support terms should be equal. The US needs to get smarter when it comes to gender roles.


Or, rather than getting smart about gender roles, we could create a society that that doesn't have any defined gender roles.. A completely gender neutral society...

But I think people like their labels and roles. It gives them comfortable walls and excuses. (i.e. living in existentially defined bad faith).


Well between our sports and fashion business it'll be hard. They just reinforce gender stereotypes hourly, day in day out. I have no illusions that will change but we can start with our laws.
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I agree with this post. I really agree with it and I will tell you why. My first degree was a BA in English with a minor in communication and I will tell you that I entered this program with the hopes of entering journalism and midway through.... Journalism flat out died. I continued on to finish the degree because well... I will be damned if I have ever quite anything in my life. When I got to the meat and potatoes of my degree I stopped learning how to write and communicated and started learning how to hate myself. At this point my curriculum had changed from being about the skills I need to succeed in a career to being about how wrong I am to be a white male from an upper middle class background (even though I refused to accept help from my parents in my pursuit of education and worked my way through college washing dishes).

Almost all of my professors where self-proclaimed feminists and insisted that the middle and upper class white male were keeping minorities and women from succeeding. Now to this day I will admit that the group at the top is mostly white males and a large portion of them are probably misogynistic. That sucks, but they aren't exactly helping me either. Believe me they are as much a detriment to myself as any minority or gender. However, I was and still am searching for a real identity, and readily accepted what was giving to me and suffered no benefit from it.

Now I will be honest, I no longer believe in equality. People are not equal in any way, shape or form, but it has nothing to do with gender, sexuality or being a minority. The reason people aren't equal is because we do not all put for the same effort, show the same initiative, have the same ability, the same knowledge, the same intellect, the same strength, or even the same amount of give a damn. However, that is fine. We don't need to be equal to each other, we all just need the same opportunity to reach a point in our lives where we can be happy with ourselves and our lives. This is pretty much the point. Equality is a fallacy and cannot really exist. Equal opportunity is the only real thing to aim for.
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Posted 6/29/17 , edited 6/29/17

ad_arbitrium wrote:

^^^ says the guy who lives in the south pacific


lol well Australia is a western country. Mad maxx ftw.


serifsansserif wrote:



Or, rather than getting smart about gender roles, we could create a society that that doesn't have any defined gender roles.. A completely gender neutral society...

But I think people like their labels and roles. It gives them comfortable walls and excuses. (i.e. living in existentially defined bad faith).


But that goes against nature. It's not realistic. I mean i know that humans have envolved and times have changed , society has changed and we have adapted but there will always be SOME gender roles. Again, it's nature, it's physiology, instinct, etc
And like you said, some people do like gender roles. Some women do still enjoy taking care of the family and their man. Some men do enjoy being the provider and the protector. etc



Theres a alt right terrorist group? or was that a joke?

Well you seem like a good feminist. You dont appear to be whining about your own situation or the situation of privileged western women and screaming rape culture or white hertosexual males.
You're doing what most femnazis dont seem to ever do. By that i mean speaking about women from places in the world where they truely are oppressed and often mistreated.


Shipwright wrote:

Modern feminism is no longer about equality. It is a movement that endorses man-hating and double standards in western societies while ignoring real instances of crimes against women in less fortunate countries.


Yup.


Just wondering if any of the females and feminists and male feminists here have watched the red pill or not? (documentary made by a female former feminsit about the MRA's and femnists, if you somehow didn't know)
The crazy feminazis got it banned from several screenings here in Australia. Labled it as women hating and made by rape apploigists. Without even watching it first.
The main stream media here did the same sort of thing.

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Posted 6/29/17 , edited 6/29/17

SchlomoShekelberg wrote:

Feminism is very unnatural and goes against the laws of nature. It's incompatible with reality. TLDR: Feminism is nothing more than a woman's way of demanding she be taken care of and given free stuff.


No. It isn't. We need feminism. Some more than others (like women who have been attacked by acid, and young girls who are forced into marriages, and women who are treated as property )




octorockandroll wrote:

Some of the posts here only go to show why feminism is necessary.

^^ ^^^ ^^


Big picture









Acid Attack






Can you provide some evidence of forced marriages that occur in a country that is not based on a caste system where certain people are considered superior to others. That society has been based beliefs that run contrary to the feminism world view for the majority of its existence. It has only been recently that a highly traditional society, such as India, has begun to initiate progressive changes that include giving women opportunities to assume roles they weren't able too before, an increase in freedom, and actual justice/protection in the face the law.

(An indian woman's opinion on the state of life in India and what women there face)

"To be honest, I think it's even hard to be a man in today's India. Many laws have been changed in favour women. If I make a complaint that a man has hurt me he will have to prove his innocence but not vice versa as it was some years ago. "

"For example, from 40 people in my class only two were married by previous agreements. India is more open today than it was some years ago but we still believe in our traditions, as they are the basis for everything we have."

Source: http://www.buro247.me/culture/insiders/modern-women-of-india-on-life-the-caste-system-and.html

Now I don't agree with the parents who arrange marriages for their young daughter but the truth of the matter is that's how its always been in India. It is something ingrained in their culture just as it was common in Egypt and middle-ages Europe. You know people used to get an arranged marriage in order to benefit the family. It was mainly done by the nobility in Europe and can still be seen inside of certain parts of the world today. I don't support what they do but I accept the fact that it is part of their tradition and apply that filter when judging it in terms of an argument. I realize this view (arranged marriage) is largely unaccepted in today's western societies where women are breaking out of tradition roles, chasing careers, and experiencing more freedom. It is only natural to fight against the traditional norms of India regarding marriage but you have to always take the environment and the society into context when considering these things.

To you as a western woman this is a slight to women all over the world since the "men" are victimizing women in attempts to control her through the expression of violence. But living inside a culture where such behaviors have existed for the history of the country, excluding the last couple of decades, is not going to make for an easy transition.

You know many things that are legal in one country are illegal in others. We eat beef all the time, but the Indian people consider the cow sacred and as such do not partake. In Korea and China they eat dogs for dinner and its perfectly okay, but we view that as taboo and don't partake. My point being that countries operate differently, and as such there will always be people who still think the old ways were correct and will act upon on it. This is not to excuse certain men's domestic violence against women, but rather to illustrate the point that whenever change occurs there will always be a backlash accompanied with it.

Consider this


"Feminist theory states that intimate partner violence is an accepted form of “power and control” by men in a patriarchal society. But according to Straus (2011) the predominant immediate motives for violence, by women as well men, are frustration and anger at some misbehavior by the partner. “They are efforts to coerce the partner into stopping some socially undesirable behavior or to practice some socially desirable behavior. … Studies have found that women engage in coercive control as much as men.”


Source: http://www.saveservices.org/2012/02/cdc-study-more-men-than-women-victims-of-partner-abuse/

Now taking into consideration that point of view you subscribe to is focusing exclusively on intimate partner violence against women. Following the premise that turning domestic violence into an issue of gender(as you have attempted to do) we can arrive at the fallacious conclusion that if you oppose the victimization of women through domestic violence you are also opposed to women.

I will offer the rebuttal that the issue of domestic violence is not one that exclusively pertains to women, but that men are subject to domestic violence just as much as women are. The difference is the situations are not handled equally in terms of society or the law. A woman can largely get away with expressing domestic violence against a man and be subject to little scrutiny even when police are called.


Police arrested the man as often as the violent partner (33.3% vs. 26.5%) 7 . (p. 8) The partner was deemed the “primary aggressor” in 54.9% of the cases. In 41.5% of the cases where men called the police, the police asked if he wanted his partner arrested; in 21% the police refused to arrest the partner, and in 38.7% the police said there was nothing they could do and left.

[1] (Bert H. Hoff, J.D, 2012)

Is it okay that our domestic violence experiences are largely trivialized and downplayed by large portion of society when we are the victims. While being subject to demonization and intense scrutiny when we presented as perpetrator in the same situation.

Can you explain to me logically why the feminist movement does not even bother to raise awareness about men's domestic violence and instead focuses primarily on the narrative that women are victims and males are the aggressor. Why is it never discussed that women also are perpetrators in this cycle of violence and that men are just as much victims as women are. Equality.


In the last 12 months 5.4 million men were victims of intimate partner violence, 2.3 million victims of serious physical violence, yet there are virtually no programs to serve them.
Intimate partner violence by women increases the chances that they will themselves be victims of intimate partner violence.
Intimate partner violence is morally wrong and criminal, but there are few programs for women batterers to show them better ways to resolve conflicts in a relationship.
Public education efforts are need to focus on girls and women. As Straus (2011, p. 285) states,

It is not sufficient for prevention programs to be gender neutral. They need to be explicitly directed to girls and women as well as boys and men. In addition, more than just awareness of female perpetration is needed. The target audience of women and girls also needs to be informed that PV by a woman is morally wrong, a criminal act, and that it is a danger to women because it increases the probability of her partner being violent (Straus, 2005).

[1] (Bert H. Hoff, J.D, 2012)

Don't even think about going for the argument that it's not the same issue because "Men are physically stronger and thus cause more injury to women than women to men"


Further, intimate partner violence is more likely to be mutual or female-initiated than male-initiated. In an analysis of 36 general-population studies on IPV and dating violence, Straus (2011) found that women were half again as likely to perpetrate serious physical violence. The 14 studies which also examined whether the violence resulted in physical injury showed that men inflicted injuries more often than women, but the difference was not that great. The rate for women injuring a partner was 88% of the male rate. Studies with a high percentage of men inflicting injury are, without exception, also studies with a high percentage of women injuring a partner.


[1] (Bert H. Hoff, J.D, 2012)

So once again I question where is the gender equality?


"Is there “gender symmetry” in intimate partner violence? As Straus (2011) points out, studies often confound symmetry in perpetration with symmetry in effect. Women do experience more physical injury and psychological impact, but men experience these as well (Douglas & Hines, 2010). As IPV expert Strauss puts it, saying that violence by women is not a serious social problem “is like arguing that cancer is not an important medical problem because many more die of heart disease.” (2011, p. 284)"

[1] (Bert H. Hoff, J.D, 2012)

And yes I will agree it was a terrible thing to do (the acid) to that woman. But I disagree that this is the day to day reality that most individuals face when facing domestic violence. It is in no way representative of the majority of domestic violence cases occurring throughout the world. I will offer a more likely scenario of a domestic violence case. And of course it's the female perpetrating the violence against the male for this couldn't be considered a discussion when only one side has been presented.


Aron was arrested on DV charges, but when prosecutors learned that the violence involved his domestic partner, Vita Shannon, punching him in the back of head twice, to which he responded by shoving her on the shoulder, the charges against Aron were dropped, and Vita is facing assault, disturbing the peace and wrong-to-minors charges instead.


Source: https://www.avoiceformen.com/mens-rights/domestic-violence-industry/us-national-survey-more-men-than-women-victims-of-intimate-partner-violence/

Your picture may have been dramatic in pointing an extreme case of domestic violence but this example presented is more representative of most cases of domestic violence. And let me make it clear I did not present that example to point out how women are horrible and should be demonized for doing such things, it is to give a counterexample to your own.

By the examples you used to support your argument I can infer that demonizing the male population as wife beaters, abusers, aggressors was your intent as you did little to add how you came to these logical conclusion and how they were congruent with your inherent beliefs as a feminist. That is an exaggeration and a fallacious attempt to undermine the opposing point of view.

[E.G. (Argumentum ad Misericordiam) & (Argumentum in Terrorem)]

The truth of the matter is domestic violence is not a gender issue. It an equal issue for both males and females and should be treated as such without prejudice towards any side of the conflict.

I challenge you to prove me wrong through a logical argument that is based on scientific research.

And as such I leave you with scientific material to "educate yourself" instead of a meme


References:

(1) Bert H. Hoff, J.D. (2012). CDC Study: More Men than Women Victims of Partner Abuse.
Retrieved from http://www.saveservices.org/2012/02/cdc-study-more-men-than-women-victims-of-partner-abuse/

(2) Douglas, E.M. and Hines, D. (2011) “The helpseeking experiences of men who sustain intimate partner violence: An overlooked population and implications for practice.” J. Fam. Vio. 2011 Aug;26(6):473-485 Published online 04 June 2011. National Institute of Mental Health Grant Number 5R21MH074590. Available at: http://www.clarku.edu/faculty/dhines/Douglas%20%20Hines%202011%20helpseeking%20experiences%20of%20male%20victims.pdf

(3)Janet Bloomfield. (2013). US National Survey: more men than women victims of intimate partner violence
Retrieved from https://www.avoiceformen.com/mens-rights/domestic-violence-industry/us-national-survey-more-men-than-women-victims-of-intimate-partner-violence/

(4) Shannon Wylie. (2015). Modern women of India on life, the caste system and arranged marriages
Retrieved from http://www.buro247.me/culture/insiders/modern-women-of-india-on-life-the-caste-system-and.html

(5) Straus, M.A. (2011). Gender symmetry and mutuality in perpetration of clinical-level partner violence: Empirical evidence and implications for prevention and treatment. Aggression and Violent Behavior 16 (2011) 279-288. Available at: http://pubpages.unh.edu/~mas2/V78%20Clincal%20level%20symmetry-Published-11.pdf

(6) Straus, M. A. (2005). Women’s violence toward men is a serious social problem. In D.R. Loseke, R. J. Gelles & M. M. Cavanaugh (Eds.), Current controversies on famlly violence, 2nd Edltlon (2nd Edition ed., pp. 55-77). Newbury Park: Sage Publications. Available at: http://pubpages.unh.edu/~mas2/VB33R%20Women’s%20Violence%20Toward%20Men.pdf
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Posted 6/29/17
^ modern feminism marches for Islam and says hajiabs are liberating.
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^^^ are you suggesting they are not? let's legalize rape while we're at it
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During college, I had a feminist teacher for speech class that constantly spoke ill of men. So for my 2nd speech in that class, a pro/con speech assignment, I chose speaking against feminism. Mostly just dramatized the whole thing as a plague upon society that eats away at freedom and really seeks to suppress everyone because of the enormous bias and hatred that tends to occur, my teacher was a prime example as nearly every class she'd say something mean about every man.
I got a standing ovation from the class, but my teacher gave me a very low F grade knocking my A in class to a B. I spoke to her about it afterwards and she lowered my grade further. After that she'd invite me over to her house for dinner. Never went.

I understand the feminist movement as a necessity to show that women are being oppressed, but equality would include a masculine movement because every man is also being opposed by society. The oppression occurring doesn't distinguish between male and female, its a blanket suppression that has been growing in whatever outlet those that seek to make slaves of others can find. Each and every movement that occurs has their ways corrupted by opposition and bias after their initial start. This has happened so much that nowadays you get a movement that is completely bullshit from the start, like the LGBTQ movement that is a movement of spreading hypocrisy that has already been commandeered by hidden agendas (not at all hidden if you're awake).

Humanity is a short sale in describing us. But since many individuals are sold on calling themselves human, talking in the corrected manner acceptable for humans to speak, and acting as narrowly as human's find acceptable.... oppression is everywhere for all individuals that interact with those that believe themselves to be human. Calling yourself human is oppressive. But you speak to someone already sold on being taught what they are, having drunk their cult mentality kool aid and going along with it, they'll begin to defend their gaps of actuality by distracting themselves with whatever they have told themselves is within their control. This often involves attempting to manipulate their own emotions and those of anyone that speaks with more truth then they do.

America is a land of constant social movement because we are among those countries that sought to get as far away from the eastern ways of doing things as possible, which is also why history shows a trail of democracies popping up further west each go of redefining freedom. Each country that speaks about freedom, liberty, democracy or equality began after slavery was already raging and has always been infiltrated to have their meaning changed around so that they newfound freedom becomes slave shackles. Slavery began from those that saw a difference between themselves and others, typically calling the slaves humans (or similar word) and the rulers gods.

And textually at the forefront of slavery and oppression is the notion of abraham, a man that was super fucking horny, sought many wives, had many children, and chose to oppress all those that that would stand up against him. Fortunately, one doesn't have to prove anything to experience the spiritual benefit of fixing your own version of history. But one can re-read the bible and look at the mentality in this book that constantly expresses numerous holocausts to realize the bible is a mobile slave teaching platform to begin to see the trail of oppression that goes all the way back to whoever people called abraham. In present tense, the oppressed tend to just sing about someone that had a lot of sex and a lot of children, adding emotional bias to something that has been nearly so redacted that emotional responses are all that remain of discussing someone that worked very hard to horde all women found appealing.

Judaism (jewish website have way more stuff on it then the bible) recognizes much of what I say, although not to the extent I know, and they'll speak often about their specialness as they come from jacob and are better than all the rest. Jacob being an individual that followed up with what abraham did and tried doing the same thing, but localized in the east while the first version of abraham did this on a global basis. One word that is used often to refer distinguishing this difference is goyim. Although what is often left out is that slavery was hugely occurring at this point in collective development. Oppression, slavery, all the nastiness in existence comes about only when people don't confront bullshit and accept others guiding them instead of being independent in their decisions. The more individuals became addicted to others making decisions for them, the further repression has grown.

Nowadays even though slavery might be spoken of as on a downhill trend, the big difference is that humanity shifted meaning around in words to hide the slave trade that is occurring as an economy. Fortunately, in all spiritual ways, oppression comes with major benefits if you can fix yourself before dying.

But as for why I bring up spirituality here, well everything is spiritual, denial is your own problem and anyone that is attentive to your denial. Also, men like abraham began the trend of social structures set to repress women. While after these dudes moved on, women more and more began controlling the development of their children and began to rule secretly. The more this way of doing things became superfluous the more men were sent away to keep busy while the women were with the children attempting to conform them to their rule, thus manifesting the oppression of men as not doing things your own way by having a job and taking orders, not having as much influence on your children's development, and gradually losing more awareness as men began to fill their heads with collective thinking as they became men of letters and such, instead of being satisfied with themselves as they actually are.

All of this has benefits, and typically humans will only discuss the benefits seen from a simple human perspective, then say don't think so much about the detriment. Well one major detriment that is occurring is that all the various ways of repressing individuals (partially thanks to all the movements becoming biased and easy to manipulate) are now affecting both men and women as women are leaving largely beginning to sacrifice their own ability to affect their children's development and leaving it all up to governments. Each generation becomes more oppressed until the masses explode. And each country that falls down crumbles when the people recognize their country has never had their best interest, except like I said unless you can get yourself free from collective entanglement hellbent on oppression.

America is currently on the verge of recognizing their own hypocrisy and that everything they told themselves wasn't exactly true except that they sacrificed themselves to work as hard as they could before dying to attempt to prove their spoken simplistic version of truth (a babylonian effect). This version of truth only remains while individuals blind themselves to only see what they choose to see, at least until people recognize much of their efforts were commandeered by others and society members that sacrifice their judgment to others have been manipulated into spreading misery to destabilize their ways so that others can come in and put a yoke around them and their children.

Feminism is just one social gang attempt to conform masses into simplifying themselves into being dominated by others easier. Although, each movement is necessary to make sure that individuals on a wide scale have to recognize that something more is going on their their simple truth. And each individual can heal themselves way faster than these movements attempt to do just by letting go of collective mentality altogether. There are infinites of benefits to all we've done collectively, as long as individuals only see themselves as human they open themselves up to blindness and a human death. To see the benefits one has to understand the significance of nothing, letting go of believing you gotta constantly be fighting and be at peace.

Peace is inevitable, death is proof. To let go of all concepts of self and get your peace now instead of dying for it beats all the attempts to enslave us that have attempted to use meaning against individuals.
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