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Post Reply NPR tweets Declaration of Independence on Independence Day - People Freak Out
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PeripheralVisionary wrote:

This reminds me of Animal Farm.


The pigs were the most literate, and over time, they changed the rules overtime to accommodate themselves over others especially when the primary rule of animalism "All animals are equal", was changed to "All animals are equal, some more than others."


Even after reading your post this still doesn't remind me of Animal Farm...
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Posted 7/5/17 , edited 7/6/17

gghadur77 wrote:


PeripheralVisionary wrote:

This reminds me of Animal Farm.


The pigs were the most literate, and over time, they changed the rules overtime to accommodate themselves over others especially when the primary rule of animalism "All animals are equal", was changed to "All animals are equal, some more than others."


Even after reading your post this still doesn't remind me of Animal Farm...


I imagine it would be easier to change the rules if no one is quite sure what they are. Or at least, that is how I see it.

One might include Fahrenheit 451, if the majority becoming apathetic counts. Not too sure of the other fiction regarding these dystopias.
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The level of stupidy displayed by these people is not surprising.
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Don't they do this every year?
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PeripheralVisionary wrote:


gghadur77 wrote:


PeripheralVisionary wrote:

This reminds me of Animal Farm.


The pigs were the most literate, and over time, they changed the rules overtime to accommodate themselves over others especially when the primary rule of animalism "All animals are equal", was changed to "All animals are equal, some more than others."


Even after reading your post this still doesn't remind me of Animal Farm...


I imagine it would be easier to change the rules if no one is quite sure what they are. Or at least, that is how I see it.

One might include Fahrenheit 451, if the majority becoming apathetic counts. Not too sure of the other fiction regarding these dystopias.


Brave New World.

But not quite this.... Just more in line with general society's preference of entertainment over substance, pleasure over principle.....And a bit more similar to Fahrenheit 451. (from 451, are you referencing the bit where Montag recites a few line from Dover Beach?)
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Posted 7/5/17 , edited 7/6/17

serifsansserif wrote:


PeripheralVisionary wrote:


gghadur77 wrote:


PeripheralVisionary wrote:

This reminds me of Animal Farm.


The pigs were the most literate, and over time, they changed the rules overtime to accommodate themselves over others especially when the primary rule of animalism "All animals are equal", was changed to "All animals are equal, some more than others."


Even after reading your post this still doesn't remind me of Animal Farm...


I imagine it would be easier to change the rules if no one is quite sure what they are. Or at least, that is how I see it.

One might include Fahrenheit 451, if the majority becoming apathetic counts. Not too sure of the other fiction regarding these dystopias.


Brave New World.

But not quite this.... Just more in line with general society's preference of entertainment over substance, pleasure over principle.....And a bit ore similar to Fahrenheit 451. (from 151, are you referencing the bit where Montag recites a few line from Dover Beach?)


Indeed, his wife and her friends appear to be those that rather watch TV than cared about Government's history revisionism, or the firefighters, or the actual war. (They may not know, and just be a result of eroding care), while there were those who still saw the value in books or something. The whole bread and circus idea.

I have read Brave New World, and it didn't seem to fit my description of permissive ignorance, though I haven't read that book in a long time.

One might argue that in Fahrenheit 451, the apathy displayed is largely due to the ignorance of what could have or has been, and the ramifications of the eroding control, while Guy Montag clearly got out of the house for a job it seems he liked.

Ray Bradbury didn't devote that much time to it, really.


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PeripheralVisionary wrote:

Indeed, his wife and her friends appear to be those that rather watch TV than cared about Government's history revisionism, or the firefighters, or the actual war. (They may not know, and just be a result of eroding care), while there were those who still saw the value in books or something. The whole bread and circus idea.

I have read Brave New World, and it didn't seem to fit my description of permissive ignorance, though I haven't read that book in a long time.

One might argue that in Fahrenheit 451, the apathy displayed is largely due to the ignorance of what could have or has been, and the ramifications of the eroding control, while Guy Montag clearly got out of the house for a job it seems he liked.

Ray Bradbury didn't devote that much time to it, really.






A few links:
https://www.theguardian.com/media/2017/feb/02/amusing-ourselves-to-death-neil-postman-trump-orwell-huxley

and this: http://www.openculture.com/2015/03/huxley-to-orwell-my-hellish-vision-of-the-future-is-better-than-yours.html


In 1949, George Orwell received a curious letter from his former high school French teacher.

Orwell had just published his groundbreaking book Nineteen Eighty-Four, which received glowing reviews from just about every corner of the English-speaking world. His French teacher, as it happens, was none other than Aldous Huxley who taught at Eton for a spell before writing Brave New World (1931), the other great 20th century dystopian novel.


Huxley starts off the letter praising the book, describing it as “profoundly important.” He continues, “The philosophy of the ruling minority in Nineteen Eighty-Four is a sadism which has been carried to its logical conclusion by going beyond sex and denying it.”

Then Huxley switches gears and criticizes the book, writing, “Whether in actual fact the policy of the boot-on-the-face can go on indefinitely seems doubtful. My own belief is that the ruling oligarchy will find less arduous and wasteful ways of governing and of satisfying its lust for power, and these ways will resemble those which I described in Brave New World.” (Listen to him read a dramatized version of the book here.)

Basically while praising Nineteen Eighty-Four, Huxley argues that his version of the future was more likely to come to pass.

In Huxley's seemingly dystopic World State, the elite amuse the masses into submission with a mind-numbing drug called Soma and an endless buffet of casual sex. Orwell’s Oceania, on the other hand, keeps the masses in check with fear thanks to an endless war and a hyper-competent surveillance state. At first blush, they might seem like they are diametrically opposed but, in fact, an Orwellian world and a Huxleyan one are simply two different modes of oppression.

Obviously we are nowhere near either dystopic vision but the power of both books is that they tap into our fears of the state. While Huxley might make you look askance at The Bachelor or Facebook, Orwell makes you recoil in horror at the government throwing around phrases like "enhanced interrogation" and "surgical drone strikes."



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Posted 7/5/17 , edited 7/6/17

serifsansserif wrote:


PeripheralVisionary wrote:

Indeed, his wife and her friends appear to be those that rather watch TV than cared about Government's history revisionism, or the firefighters, or the actual war. (They may not know, and just be a result of eroding care), while there were those who still saw the value in books or something. The whole bread and circus idea.

I have read Brave New World, and it didn't seem to fit my description of permissive ignorance, though I haven't read that book in a long time.

One might argue that in Fahrenheit 451, the apathy displayed is largely due to the ignorance of what could have or has been, and the ramifications of the eroding control, while Guy Montag clearly got out of the house for a job it seems he liked.

Ray Bradbury didn't devote that much time to it, really.






A few links:
https://www.theguardian.com/media/2017/feb/02/amusing-ourselves-to-death-neil-postman-trump-orwell-huxley

and this: http://www.openculture.com/2015/03/huxley-to-orwell-my-hellish-vision-of-the-future-is-better-than-yours.html


In 1949, George Orwell received a curious letter from his former high school French teacher.

Orwell had just published his groundbreaking book Nineteen Eighty-Four, which received glowing reviews from just about every corner of the English-speaking world. His French teacher, as it happens, was none other than Aldous Huxley who taught at Eton for a spell before writing Brave New World (1931), the other great 20th century dystopian novel.


Huxley starts off the letter praising the book, describing it as “profoundly important.” He continues, “The philosophy of the ruling minority in Nineteen Eighty-Four is a sadism which has been carried to its logical conclusion by going beyond sex and denying it.”

Then Huxley switches gears and criticizes the book, writing, “Whether in actual fact the policy of the boot-on-the-face can go on indefinitely seems doubtful. My own belief is that the ruling oligarchy will find less arduous and wasteful ways of governing and of satisfying its lust for power, and these ways will resemble those which I described in Brave New World.” (Listen to him read a dramatized version of the book here.)

Basically while praising Nineteen Eighty-Four, Huxley argues that his version of the future was more likely to come to pass.

In Huxley's seemingly dystopic World State, the elite amuse the masses into submission with a mind-numbing drug called Soma and an endless buffet of casual sex. Orwell’s Oceania, on the other hand, keeps the masses in check with fear thanks to an endless war and a hyper-competent surveillance state. At first blush, they might seem like they are diametrically opposed but, in fact, an Orwellian world and a Huxleyan one are simply two different modes of oppression.

Obviously we are nowhere near either dystopic vision but the power of both books is that they tap into our fears of the state. While Huxley might make you look askance at The Bachelor or Facebook, Orwell makes you recoil in horror at the government throwing around phrases like "enhanced interrogation" and "surgical drone strikes."





Ah, I see, I have been totally out of it then. Thanks Serif.

Strangely enough, I watched Wall-E today, and I am beyond scared.
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Posted 7/5/17 , edited 7/6/17

PeripheralVisionary wrote:

This reminds me of Animal Farm.


The pigs were the most literate, and over time, they changed the rules overtime to accommodate themselves over others especially when the primary rule of animalism "All animals are equal", was changed to "All animals are equal, some more than others."


Animal Farm is something I see a lot in common with in todays politics in the USA. It is also a really good book. I think I need more glue now...

Edit: In regards to more dystopias, 1984. Very good book.
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Posted 7/5/17 , edited 7/6/17
Man, that infographic on Aldous Huxley above is so devastatingly accurate.

Now that's a brilliant post.
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Amusing Ourselves to Death is a great read. It's been a while, but I found the ideas in the book very interesting, even though I don't wholly agree. I do believe that visual media can be used to present serious matters effectively, and I don't believe it has to ruin our ability to absorb complex, extended lines of reasoning- although on the whole, it probably does cause more than its fair share of problems. The book also got me to read 1984 and Brave New World for context. I wasn't huge on the odd erotic aspects of those books, but both had incredible visions of what might happen, and Brave New World was worth reading for one of the last chapters, imo (ch. 16, if my memory serves me).
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foraslan wrote:

Amusing Ourselves to Death is a great read. It's been a while, but I found the ideas in the book very interesting, even though I don't wholly agree. I do believe that visual media can be used to present serious matters effectively, and I don't believe it has to ruin our ability to absorb complex, extended lines of reasoning- although on the whole, it probably does cause more than its fair share of problems. The book also got me to read 1984 and Brave New World for context. I wasn't huge on the odd erotic aspects of those books, but both had incredible visions of what might happen, and Brave New World was worth reading for one of the last chapters, imo (ch. 16, if my memory serves me).


Huxley was an odd one. He was very intellectual, but at the same time, weirdly fascinated with pyschedelics... Pre-60's fascination I might add. His book, The Doors of Perception was one The Doors named themselves after....

Never was a big fan of it, and its weird to consider when you read BNW.

The hardest part I think about BNW to read though, is how vapid it really is. There's no real plot, no struggle, and the society in it is just as pointless a it could be. Unless you're kinda given a background on it or the author, it IS a difficult read for that reason... Yet, that isn't a detriment to it, as that is, precisely the point he's trying to get across.

EDIT: his collected essays which are also worth reading: https://smile.amazon.com/Collected-essays-Aldous-Huxley/dp/B0006AW1UG/ref=smi_www_rco2_go_smi_g2609328962?_encoding=UTF8&%2AVersion%2A=1&%2Aentries%2A=0&ie=UTF8
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Please, please tell me the story isn't actually real. please tell me that the right wing of our population hasn't fallen THAT far.

But if the story is real, PLEASE tell me that this is a splash of cold water and our population will come to its senses...

...but most importantly of all, PLEASE DON'T LIE TO ME...
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21stCenturyGemini wrote:Some patriots also unwittingly referred to the Declaration of Independence as 'trash' and an 'incitement to violence'. Tweets referring to King George III were also erroneously perceived as commentary on current leadership.
Perhaps to go along with symbolic flag-waving, remedial American history courses may be necessary for some self-proclaimed patriots :sweatingbullets:


Ah, the irony.
But also shows that the red-state Trump supporters WANT to believe that The Media Is Against Them, and they must Fight Their Enemies' Vile Propaganda Conspiracies, Wherever They May Surface, even to the complete obliviousness of junior high-school history.

And on the other, just demonstrates...people, keep it to 140 characters. Serial-tweets are not only baffling, they're just asking to be taken ridiculously out of context.
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