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Post Reply TAX -- The Necessary EVIL ??
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18 / M / Ypsilanti, Michigan
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Posted 7/6/17 , edited 7/8/17
Actually you have yet to properly disable my argument since mine is a philosophical argument whereas you are arguing literally.

Also I do not consent to tax when I "live here." What you are referring to is the social contract, my good sir.

Which is also a very weak argument since the idea that by being born we sign into a contract is a pathetic excuse.
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20 / M / Bundaberg, Queens...
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Posted 7/6/17

kata89 wrote:

Actually you have yet to properly disable my argument since mine is a philosophical argument whereas you are arguing literally.

Also I do not consent to tax when I "live here." What you are referring to is the social contract, my good sir.

Which is also a very weak argument since the idea that by being born we sign into a contract is a pathetic excuse.


Well a philisophical argument has no real hold well in your case in reality so yeah.

steal:take (another person's property) without permission or legal right

By definition it's not stealing even philosophically so yeah no go.

Also yes but without that "contract" society would cease to function properly everyone would be selfish and public utilities would not exist we would go into a state where if you can't work you are fucked roads and other public utilities? would not exist no money to fund them people are too selfish to fund them by themselves.

Society would be a wreck without tax so even if it were stealing and literally by definition it isn't without taxes well...it would suck to live in such a country in so many freaking ways.

As said if you dislike it you can always get the funds to leave you are also born into a contract where you can't steal and kill and other things by law which is a contract on it's own.

but i guess that's pathetic also.



Without taxes you have chaos no roads no fore departments no police and no education (unless it's private and funded via people wanting to learn) every job a society needs to be filled would not only need to be voluntary but people would need to pay for their own gear fire stations buying their own trucks out of their own pocket to do the jobs they have.

I mean if you want an absolute hell be my guest but most sane people aren't going to want to live in your "dream society" if that's what it's like taxless :P.

but each to their own i guess \o/ i just want to live in a civilized society where people can live even if they aren't jobless and hit a rough spot can get education and we have people to solve crimes.
Posted 7/6/17
Most American thing to do is hate taxes and then dump some tea at Boston Harbor.
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28 / F / SC
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Posted 7/7/17
SC car sales tax and registration were raised considerably on the 1st. as much as $500-600. This is supposedly due to the bill Nikki Haley signed when she was still gov'nr to improve our roads

supposedly

we'll see how that goes...
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18 / M / Ypsilanti, Michigan
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Posted 7/7/17

Ryulightorb wrote:

Well a philisophical argument has no real hold well in your case in reality so yeah.

Well, when discussing the nature of something, there isn't a better way to discuss it. When you get down to the dirty details; you're right. That's your problem though, you are jumping to conclusions based on a philosophical argument rather than a literal argument. -An argument I have had yet to make.



steal:take (another person's property) without permission or legal right

That's the key. Legality does not mean morality.



Without taxes you have chaos no roads no fore departments no police and no education (unless it's private and funded via people wanting to learn) every job a society needs to be filled would not only need to be voluntary but people would need to pay for their own gear fire stations buying their own trucks out of their own pocket to do the jobs they have.

I mean if you want an absolute hell be my guest but most sane people aren't going to want to live in your "dream society" if that's what it's like taxless :P.

Again, you are jumping to conclusions based on the nature of my statement. Let me additionally clear some things up for you, since you obviously have not studied classical liberalism, and the sect which came out of it: libertarianism.

There are two kinds of taxes:
-direct taxes
-indirect taxes

Now due to the nature of taxes in general, of course a taxless state is the most moral state, but very few libertarians would ever argue for that.
That's in the realm of anarcho-capitalism, but as someone who clearly doesn't respect the philosophical nature of politics, one would not know about such sects.

Direct taxes are the ones most libertarians want to abolish. I.E. income tax. Literally TAKING what you earn.
Then there are indirect taxes. This is how government would be primarily funded. That includes stuff like sales tax, trade tax, etc.

Now you might be saying: "Well, how do you fund our government with that? That wouldn't be able to support all of our programs!"
To that I say: "Very perceptive."

I have two links for you. The first is about political philosophy so you can kinda get a very brief crash course on it and maybe see it's importance:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_philosophy
http://www.lousywriter.com/how_to_write_better_with_punctuation.php
qwueri 
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31 / M
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Posted 7/7/17 , edited 7/7/17
'Render unto Caesar what is yours because you earned it with your own sweat and time but Caesar's tax collectors are real hardasses, damnit!'
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Posted 7/7/17
Do you think the Multi-millionaire from Nevada Harry Reid made his money from his government work as a Senator? Do you think he was beat up by an exercise machine?

Do you think Illinois raising taxes right now is because their politicians are on the up and up (I.e. Honest)?


Ryulightorb wrote:


gornotck wrote:

All taxation is by definition unnecessary and evil.


just like healthcare and education is evil!


Do you also believe that healthcare and education are the sole purview of the government?
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Posted 7/7/17

Online_ wrote:

Most American thing to do is hate taxes and then dump some tea at Boston Harbor.



Sigh, misunderstandings .....American History 101.

Americans didn't hate the taxes, they were mad about taxation without representation. Let me break that down, you take my tax money to fund things without my colony having a voice to decide how that money is used. That was the entire debate, if the Monarchy hadn't been such a snob, the United States of Britain would have existed instead of America, because you do know ...the colonies were mostly loyal.

Points to state of affairs, though I hate the two party system ...we need blood from outside of Dem and Rep, but if this doesn't even out more in 2018 ....we might see the same thing again. No taxation without representation, ....
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Posted 7/7/17 , edited 7/7/17

Kelgair wrote:

Do you think the Multi-millionaire from Nevada Harry Reid made his money from his government work as a Senator? Do you think he was beat up by an exercise machine?

Do you think Illinois raising taxes right now is because their politicians are on the up and up (I.e. Honest)?


Ryulightorb wrote:


gornotck wrote:

All taxation is by definition unnecessary and evil.


just like healthcare and education is evil!


Do you also believe that healthcare and education are the sole purview of the government?


Sighs, the reason for the raised taxes if I am reading that right ...is that they haven't had a freaking budget for 2 years now. That means, bills haven't been paid, and issues that should have been resolved have been allowed to dangle.

So, it seems the first thing that needs to be done is to find out what this increase in tax money is suppose to be going towards.

Then make sure it does that, because you are right, healthcare and education isn't just it. Though that lack of knowledge is what is the thorn in your side about these taxes. If it's going to the right cause, you wouldn't care, but if not...well that is the reason for this unrest.

They need to do a better job, getting the word out for what the money is for, because no one wants to give away free money.
xxJing 
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31 / M / Duckburg
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Posted 7/7/17
Taxes are a thing that really have to be balanced in the USA.

Obviously if taxes are too low, the state government won't be getting enough money to keep operating properly, no money to pay for fixing roads, no money for public parks, no money for public schools, etc.

On the other hand, if taxes become too high, then companies and people start to move out of the state to one that provides better terms. It's pretty much what's happening to my state, CT, right now. The taxation has become so high, that companies are picking up and leaving, which means less jobs for people, which means less money that the state can collect anyway.

Posted 7/7/17 , edited 7/8/17

Silentveil wrote:


Online_ wrote:

Most American thing to do is hate taxes and then dump some tea at Boston Harbor.



Sigh, misunderstandings .....American History 101.

Americans didn't hate the taxes, they were mad about taxation without representation. Let me break that down, you take my tax money to fund things without my colony having a voice to decide how that money is used. That was the entire debate, if the Monarchy hadn't been such a snob, the United States of Britain would have existed instead of America, because you do know ...the colonies were mostly loyal.

Points to state of affairs, though I hate the two party system ...we need blood from outside of Dem and Rep, but if this doesn't even out more in 2018 ....we might see the same thing again. No taxation without representation, ....


oh shit the history police, I didn't put "taxation without representation" because it's longer, taxes is shorter. And everyone knows this info already. Sooooo I made an assumption, "peeps are smart they won't need the whole thing... "
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16 / F / Haymarket, VA
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Posted 7/7/17
I'm glad that I live in Virginia.
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Posted 7/7/17

Silentveil wrote:


Kelgair wrote:

Do you think the Multi-millionaire from Nevada Harry Reid made his money from his government work as a Senator? Do you think he was beat up by an exercise machine?

Do you think Illinois raising taxes right now is because their politicians are on the up and up (I.e. Honest)?


Ryulightorb wrote:


gornotck wrote:

All taxation is by definition unnecessary and evil.


just like healthcare and education is evil!


Do you also believe that healthcare and education are the sole purview of the government?


Sighs, the reason for the raised taxes if I am reading that right ...is that they haven't had a freaking budget for 2 years now. That means, bills haven't been paid, and issues that should have been resolved have been allowed to dangle.

So, it seems the first thing that needs to be done is to find out what this increase in tax money is suppose to be going towards.

Then make sure it does that, because you are right, healthcare and education isn't just it. Though that lack of knowledge is what is the thorn in your side about these taxes. If it's going to the right cause, you wouldn't care, but if not...well that is the reason for this unrest.

They need to do a better job, getting the word out for what the money is for, because no one wants to give away free money.


Huh, I never thought I'd see a Democrat worrying about their budget! Well done sir. I agree with a lot of this post. ^^
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Posted 7/7/17 , edited 7/7/17

Online_ wrote:


Silentveil wrote:


Online_ wrote:

Most American thing to do is hate taxes and then dump some tea at Boston Harbor.



Sigh, misunderstandings .....American History 101.

Americans didn't hate the taxes, they were mad about taxation without representation. Let me break that down, you take my tax money to fund things without my colony having a voice to decide how that money is used. That was the entire debate, if the Monarchy hadn't been such a snob, the United States of Britain would have existed instead of America, because you do know ...the colonies were mostly loyal.

Points to state of affairs, though I hate the two party system ...we need blood from outside of Dem and Rep, but if this doesn't even out more in 2018 ....we might see the same thing again. No taxation without representation, ....





oh shit the history police, I didn't put "taxation without representation" because it's longer, taxes is shorter. And everyone knows this info already. Sooooo I made an assumption, "peeps are smart they won't need the whole thing... "



Dizzy ...so dizzy ..make the gif stop.

Sorry, sometimes people know and sometimes people don't know.
Made the wrong assumption, too, sorry, now make it stop ...make it stop.

So Dizzy ..
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Posted 7/7/17

Kelgair wrote:


Silentveil wrote:


Kelgair wrote:

Do you think the Multi-millionaire from Nevada Harry Reid made his money from his government work as a Senator? Do you think he was beat up by an exercise machine?

Do you think Illinois raising taxes right now is because their politicians are on the up and up (I.e. Honest)?


Ryulightorb wrote:


gornotck wrote:

All taxation is by definition unnecessary and evil.


just like healthcare and education is evil!


Do you also believe that healthcare and education are the sole purview of the government?


Sighs, the reason for the raised taxes if I am reading that right ...is that they haven't had a freaking budget for 2 years now. That means, bills haven't been paid, and issues that should have been resolved have been allowed to dangle.

So, it seems the first thing that needs to be done is to find out what this increase in tax money is suppose to be going towards.

Then make sure it does that, because you are right, healthcare and education isn't just it. Though that lack of knowledge is what is the thorn in your side about these taxes. If it's going to the right cause, you wouldn't care, but if not...well that is the reason for this unrest.

They need to do a better job, getting the word out for what the money is for, because no one wants to give away free money.


Huh, I never thought I'd see a Democrat worrying about their budget! Well done sir. I agree with a lot of this post. ^^


What is the difference between a Democrat and a Republican? .....nothing.

WE both want whats best for our Country.

We just can't seem to agree on how to do it. Also, ma'am not sir ....not your fault, I generally don't bother to give out that information, but you seem pretty reasonable. People tend to treat me more seriously and without as much censorship when they make the assumption I am a he.
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