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Post Reply I want to be immortal
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Posted 7/10/17

HateKillingCamels wrote:


gvblackmoon wrote:

Society doesn't refuse to change only small subsections of it refuse, those are called conservatives and they tend to get run over by said change. Look at history you can see when and where society changed it isn't always smooth or gentle but it does happen. This isn't the first time our society has changed and it won't be the last how we as a society deal with this change will determine if it is smooth or rough.

As for immortality it will take several forms as we develop the tech.


Society changes mostly through war, revolt and protest, which mattered before to the people in power because in the end, poor out-number the rich. Doesn't matter how much so called power the people up there have if the vast majority of people are sick of their shit, and the rich NEED the poor.

But as things won't be that way for long. With the rise of more automation and robotics, the rich and powerful will be less and less reliant on the poor for anything. Not only that, but they will be capable of having their own completely automated private armies which will completely overwhelm any amount of torches and pitch forks. They don't need the poor. Society can't change because there will be no pressure for the people in power to change it.

And yeah, only people that get immortality will be the ones that earn it.


Incorrect it is not mostly through war. The rich do not need the poor again this is a miss understanding of how society work. When we actually and I hate to use the term wage war on poverty that is what LBJ called it at the time. We reduced those in poverty and lifted them up and in doing so everyone including the rich did better.

You dystopian world view is both shortsighted and fails to understand how people work together and improve the world when they are actually focused on that. We are not going to end up in Metropolis or in Shadowrun or Cyberpunk, we will move past what we currently are into into a better day. We were on this path once before Reagan shorter work weeks better pay but then Regan happened and it all went to shit. So if we work at it we can get back to a path were everyone does better.
runec 
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Posted 7/10/17
We are not physically or mentally equipped for immortality. Even if you could eliminate the aging process, the brain isn't set up for limitless term operation and storage.

The transfer of consciousness would be a whole different can of worms. Transferring memories to a new body or computer network isn't "you" its just your file storage. Any technology that could supposedly transfer your mind would be plagued by the idea of whether or not the "new" you is actually you. Did "you" actually transfer or did you "you" die in the process and a copy of you wake up in your place? Short of unlocking the power to speak with the dead you could never answer that question.

It all comes around to the problem of destructive copying. Best exemplified by good ol' Star Trek. Do the transporters in Star Trek actually transport people, or do they kill you the moment you step into them and create a functional copy of you at a new location? There's no way to know and the Star Trek universe could be one where untold billions of people unknowingly march to their deaths day in and day out.

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Posted 7/10/17
having my own personal near death experience I don't want this and I honestly cant wait to die I am looking forward to it now because of what I saw on the other side. I actually saw structures and buildings which I cant explain I also had 360 degrees of vision and because I had no body and I was in what I call consciousness form I was forced to see what was happening to me even though I tried to close and cover my eyes without any success. After this I realized we treat death as a species completely wrong it shouldn't be a sad event but a happy one and we should be looking forward to dying and not be scared of it like so many people are.
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Posted 7/10/17 , edited 7/10/17

runec wrote:

We are not physically or mentally equipped for immortality. Even if you could eliminate the aging process, the brain isn't set up for limitless term operation and storage.

The transfer of consciousness would be a whole different can of worms. Transferring memories to a new body or computer network isn't "you" its just your file storage. Any technology that could supposedly transfer your mind would be plagued by the idea of whether or not the "new" you is actually you. Did "you" actually transfer or did you "you" die in the process and a copy of you wake up in your place? Short of unlocking the power to speak with the dead you could never answer that question.

It all comes around to the problem of destructive copying. Best exemplified by good ol' Star Trek. Do the transporters in Star Trek actually transport people, or do they kill you the moment you step into them and create a functional copy of you at a new location? There's no way to know and the Star Trek universe could be one where untold billions of people unknowingly march to their deaths day in and day out.



There are, supposedly, children who come back with the memories of past lives (very allegedly, and take with a grain of salt)..

...so perhaps the universe has a way of achieving this 'transference' already and we just may not be aware of it.

But, anyway.... I don't like the idea of immortality. Losing all my friends and family, while watching humanity make the same mistakes for several thousand years seems a bit like a curse, IMO

Of course, if humanity ever manages to become a spacefaring race, well... then I'd have to reconsider. I would absolutely love to see what is out there in the rest of the universe.
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Posted 7/10/17
Immortality won't happen here, and it sounds completely boring.
Kintor 
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Posted 7/10/17 , edited 7/10/17

gvblackmoon wrote:

You dystopian world view is both shortsighted and fails to understand how people work together and improve the world when they are actually focused on that. We are not going to end up in Metropolis or in Shadowrun or Cyberpunk, we will move past what we currently are into into a better day. We were on this path once before Reagan shorter work weeks better pay but then Regan happened and it all went to shit. So if we work at it we can get back to a path were everyone does better.

Be careful with such saccharine words, the power of dystopia will always have greater appeal then utopia. Forget the likes of Star Trek's bloated Federation. The future lies with Warhammer 40,000 and the Imperium of Man, wherein humanity's true worth will shine in an age of endless darkness.

Honestly though, in the near term a Cyberpunk Dystopia sounds like my kind of reality. I've been waiting my whole life for the promise of Cyberpunk to be realised. Now with the convergence of cybernetics, virtual reality and mass communication; against the backdrop of an increasingly unstable world; that promise is being fulfilled. The future we all forge at the dawn of this Cyberpunk age will define the destiny of humanity for all time, as inevitably there will be winners and losers as the post-WW2 status quo is upended.

The pursuit of immortality is part of the struggle. The world is so complicated and increasingly shaped by human intervention, becoming immortal is fast becoming something of a moral imperative, if only so that someone will be able to have their vision of the world seen through to the end. If humanity manages to survive the coming decades the civilisation that emerges from the upheaval will be vastly different to anything that has come before.

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Posted 7/10/17

gvblackmoon wrote:

Incorrect it is not mostly through war. The rich do not need the poor again this is a miss understanding of how society work. When we actually and I hate to use the term wage war on poverty that is what LBJ called it at the time. We reduced those in poverty and lifted them up and in doing so everyone including the rich did better.

You dystopian world view is both shortsighted and fails to understand how people work together and improve the world when they are actually focused on that. We are not going to end up in Metropolis or in Shadowrun or Cyberpunk, we will move past what we currently are into into a better day. We were on this path once before Reagan shorter work weeks better pay but then Regan happened and it all went to shit. So if we work at it we can get back to a path were everyone does better.


And I think your view is idealistic and naive, but I guess I'll agree to disagree and wish I can see it your way.
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Posted 7/10/17 , edited 7/10/17
I want to be Brad Pitt's wife.

Truth be told, we are at an age where they say we can do anything if we put our minds to it, but then not really. What if we don't make it? That my life is wasted away dreaming? That being Brad Pitt's wife is never achieved? Are you optimistic about it? What do you think?
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Posted 7/10/17
Meh
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Posted 7/10/17

gsm642 wrote:

having my own personal near death experience I don't want this and I honestly cant wait to die I am looking forward to it now because of what I saw on the other side. I actually saw structures and buildings which I cant explain I also had 360 degrees of vision and because I had no body and I was in what I call consciousness form I was forced to see what was happening to me even though I tried to close and cover my eyes without any success. After this I realized we treat death as a species completely wrong it shouldn't be a sad event but a happy one and we should be looking forward to dying and not be scared of it like so many people are.


I have had my own NDE's and boy can I say I too am looking forward to how "consciouness" would be experienced then. I was even majorly obsessed with the thought of death when that happened, to an unhealthy extent. But that's settled over as I accepted that that experience is guaranteed to come and there's no reason to rush it. But that in no way objectively makes what was experienced true. It could very well be what was experienced was a result of the human brains activity (similar to how we create realities that are indistinguishable from (REALITY) in our dreams). None of that is understood, both NDE's and dreams, but that doesn't take away that it completely removed the fear of dying from me.

Ooooh boy it's been a while since I contemplated this.
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Posted 7/10/17 , edited 7/10/17

21stCenturyGemini wrote:


runec wrote:

We are not physically or mentally equipped for immortality. Even if you could eliminate the aging process, the brain isn't set up for limitless term operation and storage.

The transfer of consciousness would be a whole different can of worms. Transferring memories to a new body or computer network isn't "you" its just your file storage. Any technology that could supposedly transfer your mind would be plagued by the idea of whether or not the "new" you is actually you. Did "you" actually transfer or did you "you" die in the process and a copy of you wake up in your place? Short of unlocking the power to speak with the dead you could never answer that question.

It all comes around to the problem of destructive copying. Best exemplified by good ol' Star Trek. Do the transporters in Star Trek actually transport people, or do they kill you the moment you step into them and create a functional copy of you at a new location? There's no way to know and the Star Trek universe could be one where untold billions of people unknowingly march to their deaths day in and day out.



There are, supposedly, children who come back with the memories of past lives (very allegedly, and take with a grain of salt)..

...so perhaps the universe has a way of achieving this 'transference' already and we just may not be aware of it.

But, anyway.... I don't like the idea of immortality. Losing all my friends and family, while watching humanity make the same mistakes for several thousand years seems a bit like a curse, IMO

Of course, if humanity ever manages to become a spacefaring race, well... then I'd have to reconsider. I would absolutely love to see what is out there in the rest of the universe.


Immortality of consciousness may very well be real but it's not something to fear. How do you know you will return as a human? I tend to subscribe to the point of view that buddhists hold in that all life sacred. As you could die and be reincarnated as an earth worm, a dog, an alien from Alpha Centauri watching Centaurian Anime posting about it on CentauriRoll.

The human mind can't even begin to comprehend the possibilities.
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Posted 7/10/17 , edited 7/10/17
It sounds great until you consider all the numerous issues with never being able to die. You would have to fake your own death every 80-100 years so people do not grow suspicious of your unnatural life span. Unless you want to be a lab rat for some illegal bio-lab for the remainder of the universes existence. Then you have to consider the fact ALL your loved ones will die at some point in time. Once you get past all of this, your mind may end up decaying. What is 10 years, 100, or even 1000 to someone who has lived for untold centuries? You would sit there, like an old Greek temple. Collecting dust, dirt, and hell even plants would grow on you from sitting for so long. That is the life you would be doomed to if you became immortal.
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Posted 7/10/17

ninjitsuko wrote:


Hi, I would like to discuss with you because you seem like a person that likes to discuss with other people and is not an asshole. I'm asking you because some people can misinterpret my intentions and think that I'm just trolling or stalking. My reason for this is that I want to practice my writing in English creating more elaborate arguments each time.

So, even though I do NOT agree with immortality, I'm going to take the other side for the sake of the discussion.

About the following argument:

The meaning and purpose of one's life lose substance if you were immortal. The struggle of life is what makes life a forever-interesting experience. One should never feel complacent in life - they should always strive for more. Be it a hobby, be it a better job, be it a better circumstance (location, environment, job... whatever).

Don't think that if we change and become immortal beings then the purpose of our "lives" or existence changes too?

I mean hasn't this purpose changed over time? Take for example that time when we were living in caves. What was our purpose back then? I think that it was to fulfill the most basic needs that we had, which I think they were to eat, to reproduce, to sleep, to mention a few ones. And as can be noted, these needs weren't that different from other animals. While in contrast nowadays our needs are more complex as you mention before; it is not enough to just fulfill those basic needs; we look for more.


I feel that if you were immortal, these things would lose their meaning and you'd be more apathetic, less productive, and more uncaring about the things you'd think you'd care about.

Yes, these things probably would lose their meaning, but as it was noted before, a new purpose with new needs is created, so our attitude would not change but our purpose.


Humans are stupid. We only entertain ourselves because we know we're going to die one day. Imagine if you knew that you would never die - how boring would that be.

Given that being immortal free us from the primitive purpose with primitive needs, we will become a better version of ourselves, like right now we are a better version of the ones that lived in caves.

I know it is hard to imagine a purpose that will fulfill our existence if we become immortal, but wasn't it also difficult to imagine our current purpose when we were living in caves? Someone can argue that back then we didn't imagine a thing, because our brains weren't that developed, but wouldn't that make it the same case with our future ourselves? Wouldn't the immortal people of the future will think that our brains weren't that developed too? That's quite funny.

Think of things that will be plausible thanks to immortality like for example traveling throughout the galaxy, unless we find a way of traveling faster than light, which I hope instead.

Off topic: I'll be attentive to any suggestions on my overall text structure and grammar; also please take it easy with me, because I don't like spanking from another man!
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Posted 7/10/17

amejia0 wrote:


21stCenturyGemini wrote:


runec wrote:

We are not physically or mentally equipped for immortality. Even if you could eliminate the aging process, the brain isn't set up for limitless term operation and storage.

The transfer of consciousness would be a whole different can of worms. Transferring memories to a new body or computer network isn't "you" its just your file storage. Any technology that could supposedly transfer your mind would be plagued by the idea of whether or not the "new" you is actually you. Did "you" actually transfer or did you "you" die in the process and a copy of you wake up in your place? Short of unlocking the power to speak with the dead you could never answer that question.

It all comes around to the problem of destructive copying. Best exemplified by good ol' Star Trek. Do the transporters in Star Trek actually transport people, or do they kill you the moment you step into them and create a functional copy of you at a new location? There's no way to know and the Star Trek universe could be one where untold billions of people unknowingly march to their deaths day in and day out.



There are, supposedly, children who come back with the memories of past lives (very allegedly, and take with a grain of salt)..

...so perhaps the universe has a way of achieving this 'transference' already and we just may not be aware of it.

But, anyway.... I don't like the idea of immortality. Losing all my friends and family, while watching humanity make the same mistakes for several thousand years seems a bit like a curse, IMO

Of course, if humanity ever manages to become a spacefaring race, well... then I'd have to reconsider. I would absolutely love to see what is out there in the rest of the universe.


Immortality of consciousness may very well be real but it's not something to fear. How do you know you will return as a human? I tend to subscribe to the point of view that buddhists hold in that all life sacred. As you could die and be reincarnated as an earth worm, a dog, an alien from Alpha Centauri watching Centaurian Anime posting about it on CentauriRoll.

The human mind can't even begin to comprehend the possibilities.


Hm, I suppose.

The universe is a strange place after all. We have on idea what exactly is this existence we're inhabiting. We just take it one day at a time and handle whatever comes our way

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Posted 7/10/17 , edited 7/10/17

descloud wrote:

It sounds great until you consider all the numerous issues with never being able to die. You would have to fake your own death every 80-100 years so people do not grow suspicious of your unnatural life span. Unless you want to be a lab rat for some illegal bio-lab for the remainder of the universes existence. Then you have to consider the fact ALL your loved ones will die at some point in time. Once you get past all of this, your mind may end up decaying. What is 10 years, 100, or even 1000 to someone who has lived for untold centuries? You would sit there, like an old Greek temple. Collecting dust, dirt, and hell even plants would grow on you from sitting for so long. That is the life you would be doomed to if you became immortal.


All those so called issues are only issues from the mortal point of view that arises from our limited time on this planet and the anxiety of not know when it's your time to go.

As your situation/conditions change so will your perspective and your outlook on life. I honestly believe that someone that attains immortality will struggle through the first century as they will still have remnants of the attachments and mortal outlooks on life but with enough time they will adjust and realize that their fate is no longer tied into the previous "mortal" life they once lived.

Given enough time we adjust to any and all conditions or we die. Remove the possibility of death and we only have the option to adjust.

And in regards to your "human lab rat" scenario. Yes it's definitely a possibility but that's why the type of immortality that was achieved was an important point of discussion. Can you regenerate/be invincible so others can't kill you? Can you have eternal youth/be able to manipulate your cells to be "younger/older". Are you gifted with super strength/powers.

Depending on which of these conditions you are gifted/cursed with can mean the difference between condemning you for all eternity or allowing you to survive unbothered by anything these foolish mortals could throw your way.

If you watch the anime Ajin - Demi-Human you will see a possible scenario for Super Strong/Immortal beings living inside of our modern community. (It's on Netflix)

I would want a similar type of immortality with eternal youth/cell manipulation as well as invincibility/teleportation so humans can't end my life/keep me captive no matter how hard they try.

Even condemning an immortal by trapping and sending them into the depths of space would be unable to destroy their life. As I see space as the next frontier for one with an immortal life after they have exhausted the experiences that can be had on this humble planet.
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