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Post Reply Charges dropped against confessed murderer
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Posted 7/10/17

Amyas_Leigh wrote:

This is a bit more clear cut than that. Read the full article.


I did, did you? I read through everything and even watched the full video, hence the question, "You don't have any comprehension skills?".

Nowhere in the article did it mention charges dropped due to victim provocation, yet your second paragraph in your opening post stated this, which was what made me curious and clicked the article link in the first place. If your opening post had been accurate, I wouldn't have bothered clicking the link, since the key words here are, "key witnesses".

Is my comprehension retarded? The others seem to agree with me. I think you should know when your thread has backfired?
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Posted 7/10/17

LingLingJuju wrote:


Amyas_Leigh wrote:

This is a bit more clear cut than that. Read the full article.


I did, did you? I read through everything and even watched the full video, hence the question, "You don't have any comprehension skills?".

Nowhere in the article did it mention charges dropped due to victim provocation, yet your second paragraph in your opening post stated this, which was what made me curious and clicked the article link in the first place. If your opening post had been accurate, I wouldn't have bothered clicking the link, since the key words here are, "key witnesses".

Is my comprehension retarded? The others seem to agree with me. I think you should know when your thread has backfired?


Like I said, the State Attorney made a lot of bullshit excuses as to why the charges were dropped, everything from 'the guy was fat' to the 'key witness' being missing despite there being multiple witnesses whose testimony they had no problem taking, a confession and a dead body with an autopsy report that said he was strangled to death.
If you had read the article, you would know these things
The SA lied and said they didn't have enough evidence, then released this contradictory statement


The State has no competent evidence to rebut the argument that when Donley is called a "n-word", he was suddenly provoked to turn and strike Mr. Grant.


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Posted 7/10/17
https://digital.library.txstate.edu/bitstream/handle/10877/2969/fulltext.pdf?sequence=1
TLDR a confession isn't always reliable
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Posted 7/10/17 , edited 7/10/17

Amyas_Leigh wrote:


LingLingJuju wrote:


Amyas_Leigh wrote:

This is a bit more clear cut than that. Read the full article.


I did, did you? I read through everything and even watched the full video, hence the question, "You don't have any comprehension skills?".

Nowhere in the article did it mention charges dropped due to victim provocation, yet your second paragraph in your opening post stated this, which was what made me curious and clicked the article link in the first place. If your opening post had been accurate, I wouldn't have bothered clicking the link, since the key words here are, "key witnesses".

Is my comprehension retarded? The others seem to agree with me. I think you should know when your thread has backfired?


Like I said, the State Attorney made a lot of bullshit excuses as to why the charges were dropped, everything from 'the guy was fat' to the 'key witness' being missing despite there being multiple witnesses whose testimony they had no problem taking, a confession and a dead body with an autopsy report that said he was strangled to death.
If you had read the article, you would know these things
The SA lied and said they didn't have enough evidence, then released this contradictory statement


The State has no competent evidence to rebut the argument that when Donley is called a "n-word", he was suddenly provoked to turn and strike Mr. Grant.




Breakdown of your points:

1) The guy was fat: This is the most important point. Due to his heart condition (which was deemed a contributing cause of death) there are two things that could be argued. One is that the death did not occur in a situation which would normally contribute to death, which could bring charges down to manslaughters. Two is that the death was actually not due to strangulation but instead it was a heart attack, which could eliminate even the manslaughter charge. Here is a statement from the defense on this point:


“We’ve had several medical experts look at it, various depositions. I had one of the top forensic pathologists in the country as well as another doctor review it. The cause of death (determined by the medical examiner) was probably in error. It was a heart attack, more than likely.”


2) Key witness: According to the police, the one witness who saw the whole fight had left the country. Having the full picture of the confrontation is extremely important, especially considering the relevant facts of the case. You need to know whether the actions performed by the suspect are something a reasonable person would expect to cause death. If witnesses only saw a piece of the fight, that makes this question much more difficult.

3) Confession: Basically irrelevant. The defense is unlikely to use the "it wasn't me" defense, so the confession doesn't really provide any information that they would rebut. As the suspect is not an expert witness, even their words have basically no impact on matters of opinion such as cause of death.

4) Autopsy report: Addressed above. Basically, the conclusions are in question.

5) The n-word: An argument could be made that this was a crime of passion which would lower the charges to voluntary manslaughter.

Basically, overall, it is questionable whether you would actually get any prosecution, but if you did get one it would almost certainly be a manslaughter charge which holds significantly less of a penalty than homicide charges. At that point, when you don't have the evidence to confidently bring something to court, it isn't uncommon to drop charges. Bringing things that are unlikely to result in conviction (or satisfying conviction) to court is a waste of taxpayer money and relly doesn't do much good.
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Posted 7/10/17 , edited 7/10/17

Amyas_Leigh wrote:
Like I said, the State Attorney made a lot of bullshit excuses as to why the charges were dropped, everything from 'the guy was fat' to the 'key witness' being missing despite there being multiple witnesses whose testimony they had no problem taking, a confession and a dead body with an autopsy report that said he was strangled to death.
If you had read the article, you would know these things
The SA lied and said they didn't have enough evidence, then released this contradictory statement


Sure, if you ignore everything everyone is telling you about the legal system and the available information regarding the case.

Why did you even start a thread if you had no intention of talking about the it? -.-

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Posted 7/10/17 , edited 7/10/17

sundin13 wrote:



1) The guy was fat: This is the most important point. Due to his heart condition (which was deemed a contributing cause of death) there are two things that could be argued. One is that the death did not occur in a situation which would normally contribute to death, which could bring charges down to manslaughters. Two is that the death was actually not due to strangulation but instead it was a heart attack, which could eliminate even the manslaughter charge. Here is a statement from the defense on this point:


Defense attorney Fred Haddad, meanwhile, developed his own theory of the case.

“We’ve had several medical experts look at it, various depositions. I had one of the top forensic pathologists in the country as well as another doctor review it. The cause of death (determined by the medical examiner) was probably in error. It was a heart attack, more than likely.”


.


I wouldn't take the pet theory of the defense lawyer as gospel. Its his job to let murderers/rapists/pedophiles etc go free. Can ill people who can't take as much of a beating not be killed as a result of other people's actions in his fantasy land? Seems so. It looks like their most "legit" defense too, "top forensic pathologists" the defense lawyer says "he had" review it .
I'm certain the initial autopsy report was more accurate than some "review" done after the corpse had rotted to nothing.
The "missing key witness" is another bullshit excuse that doesn't hold water when you look at the facts of the case. It doesn't matter how unhealthy the victim was, the choice was still made to steal and then assault someone that resulted in a homicide.

This would not fall under a 'crime of passion' even if that state has laws on the books about it, especially since he was in the wrong for theft of service to begin with. And up to ten years in prison for voluntary manslaughter is nothing to sneeze at, I'm certain the victim's sister would have appreciated that at least rather than to let the killer go free.
Its a staggering display of incompetence on part of the prosecution, that's for sure.



runec wrote:

Sure, if you ignore everything everyone is telling you about the legal system and the available information regarding the case.

Why did you even start a thread if you had no intention of talking about the it? -.-



Everything everyone is telling me? You mean like how unhealthy or ill people can't be murdered according to what was implied by several posters ITT? And that confessions don't matter at all? Sure








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Posted 7/10/17 , edited 7/10/17

Amyas_Leigh wrote:


sundin13 wrote:



1) The guy was fat: This is the most important point. Due to his heart condition (which was deemed a contributing cause of death) there are two things that could be argued. One is that the death did not occur in a situation which would normally contribute to death, which could bring charges down to manslaughters. Two is that the death was actually not due to strangulation but instead it was a heart attack, which could eliminate even the manslaughter charge. Here is a statement from the defense on this point:


Defense attorney Fred Haddad, meanwhile, developed his own theory of the case.

“We’ve had several medical experts look at it, various depositions. I had one of the top forensic pathologists in the country as well as another doctor review it. The cause of death (determined by the medical examiner) was probably in error. It was a heart attack, more than likely.”


.


I wouldn't take the pet theory of the defense lawyer as gospel. Its his job to let murderers/rapists/pedophiles etc go free. Can ill people who can't take as much of a beating not be killed as a result of other people's actions in his fantasy land? Seems so. It looks like their most "legit" defense too, "top forensic pathologists" the defense lawyer says "he had" review it .
I'm certain the initial autopsy report was more accurate than some "review" done after the corpse had rotted to nothing.


Its not about taking anyone's word as gospel. Its about looking at the arguments that will be seen in court and evaluating them. Also, you can't just make up evidence and present it to the court. If the defense says that they have had the evidence evaluated, they probably had the evidence evaluated. And believe it or not, independent verification is a crucial part of our criminal justice system. Often times you get results from the defense which line up with what the prosecution was pushing and sometimes you don't. If it doesn't you have to examine the evidence and the conclusions that were made. This is even more true with subjective evidence like cause of death which is a conclusion that you reach by looking at the totality of the evidence. The fact that the original ME suggested that heart disease was a contributing cause just lends more validity to the theory that the cause of death was a heart attack.

As for how the second opinion reached their conclusion, there is no way to know without hearing the full details. I doubt that it was performed on an exhumed body, but even if it was, you can still learn a lot from a body in various stages of decomposition.

Also, please stop saying that I implied that an unhealthy person can't be murdered. No one implied that. You are trying to obfuscate the point by rewriting it into something that sounds dumb. That is incredibly disengenous and just makes you look bad.
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Posted 7/10/17

rawratl wrote:

Standard Amyas thread. Oh look a black man murdered a poor white man and was acquitted. This of course never happens on the other side! Do we really have to sit here and post articles of every little incident? I mean if we did this to white people or anyone else who is acquitted from murder for ridiculous reasons there would be thousands of threads. Quit wasting everyone's time with your silly attempts to stoke racial tensions on an anime forum. It's pathetic.


"Admitted Killer" Who gives a shit about his skin color?

Am I the only one who finds this deeply disturbing? The killer choked a man to death but it was dropped?

The fuck are you doing Florida?
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Posted 7/10/17 , edited 7/10/17

Kelgair wrote:


rawratl wrote:

Standard Amyas thread. Oh look a black man murdered a poor white man and was acquitted. This of course never happens on the other side! Do we really have to sit here and post articles of every little incident? I mean if we did this to white people or anyone else who is acquitted from murder for ridiculous reasons there would be thousands of threads. Quit wasting everyone's time with your silly attempts to stoke racial tensions on an anime forum. It's pathetic.


"Admitted Killer" Who gives a shit about his skin color?

Am I the only one who finds this deeply disturbing? The killer choked a man to death but it was dropped?

The fuck are you doing Florida?


If you would bother actually reading through the thread or at least the news on the trial, you would see that that is really not what happened at all.
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Posted 7/10/17

Amyas_Leigh wrote:
Everything everyone is telling me? You mean like how unhealthy or ill people can't be murdered according to what was implied by several posters ITT? And that confessions don't matter at all? Sure


Yeah, no. No one told you that. They told you that the conclusion of medical forensics is that he most likely died from complications with pre-existing heart problems. Hence it was downgraded to manslaughter as an intent to kill could not be established. The suspect was not even aware the victim had died.

You were also told that what the suspect said was not legally considered a confession.

Now you're demanding we look at the "facts of the case" in the same breath you just flagrantly dismissed the facts you didn't like.

If you can't even keep your shit together in your own thread on a non-partisan topic I really don't know what to tell you.


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Posted 7/10/17

octorockandroll wrote:


Kelgair wrote:


rawratl wrote:

Standard Amyas thread. Oh look a black man murdered a poor white man and was acquitted. This of course never happens on the other side! Do we really have to sit here and post articles of every little incident? I mean if we did this to white people or anyone else who is acquitted from murder for ridiculous reasons there would be thousands of threads. Quit wasting everyone's time with your silly attempts to stoke racial tensions on an anime forum. It's pathetic.


"Admitted Killer" Who gives a shit about his skin color?

Am I the only one who finds this deeply disturbing? The killer choked a man to death but it was dropped?

The fuck are you doing Florida?


If you would bother actually reading through the thread or at least the news on the trial, you would see that that is really not what happened at all.


Meh, I saw the video and read the article from http://www.wptv.com/news/region-c-palm-beach-county/west-palm-beach/admitted-killer-of-west-palm-beach-man-walks-free

What happened otherwise? They got in a fight and because one guy was fat the other guy is let off after strangling him to death? I'm not buyin it. :/

Or should I not believe local news?
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Posted 7/10/17

runec wrote:

They told you that the conclusion of medical forensics is that he most likely died from complications with pre-existing heart problems.




That was a pet theory presented by the defense lawyer with no proof, based on opinions of so called 'experts' he found himself. Opinions made long after the corpse of the victim had began the decomposition process. Hell, I don't even think they had a look at the body, there is no indication of it that I have found, and for some reason I doubt they kept the corpse frozen since 2012.


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Posted 7/10/17 , edited 7/10/17

Kelgair wrote:


octorockandroll wrote:


Kelgair wrote:


rawratl wrote:

Standard Amyas thread. Oh look a black man murdered a poor white man and was acquitted. This of course never happens on the other side! Do we really have to sit here and post articles of every little incident? I mean if we did this to white people or anyone else who is acquitted from murder for ridiculous reasons there would be thousands of threads. Quit wasting everyone's time with your silly attempts to stoke racial tensions on an anime forum. It's pathetic.


"Admitted Killer" Who gives a shit about his skin color?

Am I the only one who finds this deeply disturbing? The killer choked a man to death but it was dropped?

The fuck are you doing Florida?


If you would bother actually reading through the thread or at least the news on the trial, you would see that that is really not what happened at all.


Meh, I saw the video and read the article from http://www.wptv.com/news/region-c-palm-beach-county/west-palm-beach/admitted-killer-of-west-palm-beach-man-walks-free

What happened otherwise? They got in a fight and because one guy was fat the other guy is let off after strangling him to death? I'm not buyin it. :/

Or should I not believe local news?


What happened otherwise? He died of a fucking pre existing heart condition and there was no sufficient medical evidence or testimonial evidence suggesting otherwise. Why would you even equate that to "he was let off because the guy was fat"? Forget a jump from point A to point B, that's like a jump from point A to point Yellowstone, there isn't even a logical progression there.
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Posted 7/10/17

runec wrote:


Amyas_Leigh wrote:
Everything everyone is telling me? You mean like how unhealthy or ill people can't be murdered according to what was implied by several posters ITT? And that confessions don't matter at all? Sure


Yeah, no. No one told you that. They told you that the conclusion of medical forensics is that he most likely died from complications with pre-existing heart problems. Hence it was downgraded to manslaughter as an intent to kill could not be established. The suspect was not even aware the victim had died.

You were also told that what the suspect said was not legally considered a confession.

Now you're demanding we look at the "facts of the case" in the same breath you just flagrantly dismissed the facts you didn't like.

If you can't even keep your shit together in your own thread on a non-partisan topic I really don't know what to tell you.




I'm glad I've been good with my health since apparently being fat precludes me from being strangulated...

He was strangulated, health problems were secondary. The intent to kill was there, and resulted in the desired result. ;P
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Posted 7/10/17 , edited 7/10/17

octorockandroll wrote:


Kelgair wrote:


octorockandroll wrote:


Kelgair wrote:


rawratl wrote:

Standard Amyas thread. Oh look a black man murdered a poor white man and was acquitted. This of course never happens on the other side! Do we really have to sit here and post articles of every little incident? I mean if we did this to white people or anyone else who is acquitted from murder for ridiculous reasons there would be thousands of threads. Quit wasting everyone's time with your silly attempts to stoke racial tensions on an anime forum. It's pathetic.


"Admitted Killer" Who gives a shit about his skin color?

Am I the only one who finds this deeply disturbing? The killer choked a man to death but it was dropped?

The fuck are you doing Florida?


If you would bother actually reading through the thread or at least the news on the trial, you would see that that is really not what happened at all.


Meh, I saw the video and read the article from http://www.wptv.com/news/region-c-palm-beach-county/west-palm-beach/admitted-killer-of-west-palm-beach-man-walks-free

What happened otherwise? They got in a fight and because one guy was fat the other guy is let off after strangling him to death? I'm not buyin it. :/

Or should I not believe local news?


What happened otherwise? He died of a fucking pre existing heart condition and there was no sufficient medical evidence or testimonial evidence suggesting otherwise. Why would you even equate that to "he was let off because the guy was fat"? Forget a jump from point A to point B, that's like a jump from point A to point Yellowstone, there isn't even a logical progression there.


He died because he was strangled. His body was secondary. A pathetic defense you don't see often....
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