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Post Reply Earth facing "biological annihilation."
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28 / M / Ark-La-Tex
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Posted 7/11/17 , edited 7/11/17
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(C)See BS, pretty much says it all.

Especially for predators, it is Man's "fault". If you don't understand why this is good, take a trip to Africa and walk around in the bush with a spear and you'll understand.

Unless our population is curtailed with draconian measures (think China), human population pressures will force more animals out of their present habitat. Are you going to give up on your genetic legacy? I've (not) done my part - no kids.

It is ironic to talk about bird population drops in the same article with ""Global Warming"" (extra scare quotes). Considering that Bird Choppers aka windmills are a preferred solution. ;-)
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43 / M / NW
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Posted 7/11/17 , edited 7/11/17
Change happens and continues to happen. Try another viewpoint. The event of biological annihilation could be oncoming regardless of humans. Indeed humans could be advancing tech wise and considered as a means to prevent more of the complicated life forms surviving versus the system left alone.
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Posted 7/11/17 , edited 7/11/17
This type of thing already happened in Europe long ago. Humans left the species that lived with us alone while ones hosthostile to humans got wiped out. It used to be that there were areas where nature still dominated but now those places are having mass overpopulation.
runec 
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Posted 7/11/17 , edited 7/11/17
I was about to criticize CBS for clickbaiting what should be a serious scientific article then I saw that the scientific paper in question really is entitled "Biological Annihilation".

I suppose that's one way to get people to pay attention to a science journal.

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Posted 7/11/17 , edited 7/11/17
hell yeah hell yeah bring it on kill me gaia
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32 / M
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Posted 7/11/17 , edited 7/11/17

runec wrote:

I was about to criticize CBS for clickbaiting what should be a serious scientific article then I saw that the scientific paper in question really is entitled "Biological Annihilation".

I suppose that's one way to get people to pay attention to a science journal.



apparently they still wont pay attention, they'll bitch about windmills
qwueri 
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Posted 7/11/17 , edited 7/11/17
While eyebrow raising, an article that broad is just more a note of ecological trends than a call to action. There's alot of localized issues brought up from over-fishing, to land sprawl, to global warming. All serious issues, but each has to be addressed at individual local levels.

And that's not even touching the people who will happily plow into ecological calamity the same way some people drive right into flood water.
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Posted 7/11/17 , edited 7/11/17
This hypothetical ecological disaster could be an example of Capitalism failing due to its negate of external cost, public good, and shared resource. The natural environment can be a sort of public good that provide resource like clean water, food, shelter, and medicine to both humans and animals. Those resources can be shared but not owned as they cannot be stored for long period. The more advanced human societies will alter the local habitat as the internal cost of environmental destruction outweight the benefit of land development even when it incur enomous cost to other animals who live in those habitat.
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Posted 7/11/17 , edited 7/11/17

runec wrote:

I was about to criticize CBS for clickbaiting what should be a serious scientific article then I saw that the scientific paper in question really is entitled "Biological Annihilation".

I suppose that's one way to get people to pay attention to a science journal.



Seriously.

I skipped over this thread several times because I thought it was being needlessly alarmist.
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Posted 7/11/17 , edited 7/11/17

rawratl wrote:


runec wrote:

I was about to criticize CBS for clickbaiting what should be a serious scientific article then I saw that the scientific paper in question really is entitled "Biological Annihilation".

I suppose that's one way to get people to pay attention to a science journal.



apparently they still wont pay attention, they'll bitch about windmills


Windmills are of great concern to bird populations. To discount them is doing a great injustice.

Estimates for bird deaths by wind turbine run from 100,000 a year (the National Research Council) to 300,000 (American Bird Conservancy). Bloomberg News puts the toll at 573,000 birds in 2012. At the high end of the estimates, that's well more than 1,000 birds chopped to death each day.

Meanwhile, as many as 28,000 birds are killed each year — that's one every two minutes — by the Ivanpah solar plant in the Mojave Desert, according to the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service . Ivanpah focuses more than 300,000 mirrors on three 459-foot towers, generating heat of up to 800 degrees — enough to fry birds that happen to fly by.

To be fair, the 2010 BP oil spill in the Gulf of Mexico did do substantial damage to fowl in the region. The U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service reports that 2,303 "visibly oiled" dead birds were collected "within the Deepwater Horizon/BP incident impact area."

But oil spills the size of the BP accident don't happen every year. Deaths caused by wind turbines and solar farms, however, don't stop. The Daily Caller reports that "in the time since the 2010 BP oil spill, some 2.9 million birds have been killed by wind turbines."



Wildlife expert Jim Wiegand has documented how areas searched under wind turbines are still confined to 200-foot radiuses, even though modern monster turbines catapult 80% of bird and bat carcasses much further. Windfarm owners, operating under voluntary (!) USFWS guidelines, commission studies that search much-too-small areas, look only once every 30-90 days, ensuring that scavengers remove most carcasses, and ignore wounded birds that happen to be found within search perimeters.



sinoakayumi wrote:

This hypothetical ecological disaster could be an example of Capitalism failing due to its negate of external cost, public good, and shared resource. The natural environment can be a sort of public good that provide resource like clean water, food, shelter, and medicine to both humans and animals. Those resources can be shared but not owned as they cannot be stored for long period. The more advanced human societies will alter the local habitat as the internal cost of environmental destruction outweight the benefit of land development even when it incur enomous cost to other animals who live in those habitat.


Capitalism does a much better job than the communist delusion.

More Than 80 Percent of China’s Groundwater Polluted: http://www.theepochtimes.com/n3/2031587-more-than-80-percent-of-chinas-groundwater-polluted/
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Posted 7/11/17 , edited 7/11/17

Rujikin wrote:


rawratl wrote:


runec wrote:

I was about to criticize CBS for clickbaiting what should be a serious scientific article then I saw that the scientific paper in question really is entitled "Biological Annihilation".

I suppose that's one way to get people to pay attention to a science journal.



apparently they still wont pay attention, they'll bitch about windmills


Windmills are of great concern to bird populations. To discount them is doing a great injustice.

Estimates for bird deaths by wind turbine run from 100,000 a year (the National Research Council) to 300,000 (American Bird Conservancy). Bloomberg News puts the toll at 573,000 birds in 2012. At the high end of the estimates, that's well more than 1,000 birds chopped to death each day.

Meanwhile, as many as 28,000 birds are killed each year — that's one every two minutes — by the Ivanpah solar plant in the Mojave Desert, according to the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service . Ivanpah focuses more than 300,000 mirrors on three 459-foot towers, generating heat of up to 800 degrees — enough to fry birds that happen to fly by.

To be fair, the 2010 BP oil spill in the Gulf of Mexico did do substantial damage to fowl in the region. The U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service reports that 2,303 "visibly oiled" dead birds were collected "within the Deepwater Horizon/BP incident impact area."

But oil spills the size of the BP accident don't happen every year. Deaths caused by wind turbines and solar farms, however, don't stop. The Daily Caller reports that "in the time since the 2010 BP oil spill, some 2.9 million birds have been killed by wind turbines."



Wildlife expert Jim Wiegand has documented how areas searched under wind turbines are still confined to 200-foot radiuses, even though modern monster turbines catapult 80% of bird and bat carcasses much further. Windfarm owners, operating under voluntary (!) USFWS guidelines, commission studies that search much-too-small areas, look only once every 30-90 days, ensuring that scavengers remove most carcasses, and ignore wounded birds that happen to be found within search perimeters.



sinoakayumi wrote:

This hypothetical ecological disaster could be an example of Capitalism failing due to its negate of external cost, public good, and shared resource. The natural environment can be a sort of public good that provide resource like clean water, food, shelter, and medicine to both humans and animals. Those resources can be shared but not owned as they cannot be stored for long period. The more advanced human societies will alter the local habitat as the internal cost of environmental destruction outweight the benefit of land development even when it incur enomous cost to other animals who live in those habitat.


Capitalism does a much better job than the communist delusion.

More Than 80 Percent of China’s Groundwater Polluted: http://www.theepochtimes.com/n3/2031587-more-than-80-percent-of-chinas-groundwater-polluted/


Pretty sure the windmill point was a flippant rhetorical remark meant to drive a point... as opposed to literally making the case for windmills.

At the same time - renewable energies are absolutely the future of humanity.

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Posted 7/11/17 , edited 7/11/17

21stCenturyGemini wrote:


Rujikin wrote:


rawratl wrote:


runec wrote:

I was about to criticize CBS for clickbaiting what should be a serious scientific article then I saw that the scientific paper in question really is entitled "Biological Annihilation".

I suppose that's one way to get people to pay attention to a science journal.



apparently they still wont pay attention, they'll bitch about windmills


Windmills are of great concern to bird populations. To discount them is doing a great injustice.

Estimates for bird deaths by wind turbine run from 100,000 a year (the National Research Council) to 300,000 (American Bird Conservancy). Bloomberg News puts the toll at 573,000 birds in 2012. At the high end of the estimates, that's well more than 1,000 birds chopped to death each day.

Meanwhile, as many as 28,000 birds are killed each year — that's one every two minutes — by the Ivanpah solar plant in the Mojave Desert, according to the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service . Ivanpah focuses more than 300,000 mirrors on three 459-foot towers, generating heat of up to 800 degrees — enough to fry birds that happen to fly by.

To be fair, the 2010 BP oil spill in the Gulf of Mexico did do substantial damage to fowl in the region. The U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service reports that 2,303 "visibly oiled" dead birds were collected "within the Deepwater Horizon/BP incident impact area."

But oil spills the size of the BP accident don't happen every year. Deaths caused by wind turbines and solar farms, however, don't stop. The Daily Caller reports that "in the time since the 2010 BP oil spill, some 2.9 million birds have been killed by wind turbines."



Wildlife expert Jim Wiegand has documented how areas searched under wind turbines are still confined to 200-foot radiuses, even though modern monster turbines catapult 80% of bird and bat carcasses much further. Windfarm owners, operating under voluntary (!) USFWS guidelines, commission studies that search much-too-small areas, look only once every 30-90 days, ensuring that scavengers remove most carcasses, and ignore wounded birds that happen to be found within search perimeters.



sinoakayumi wrote:

This hypothetical ecological disaster could be an example of Capitalism failing due to its negate of external cost, public good, and shared resource. The natural environment can be a sort of public good that provide resource like clean water, food, shelter, and medicine to both humans and animals. Those resources can be shared but not owned as they cannot be stored for long period. The more advanced human societies will alter the local habitat as the internal cost of environmental destruction outweight the benefit of land development even when it incur enomous cost to other animals who live in those habitat.


Capitalism does a much better job than the communist delusion.

More Than 80 Percent of China’s Groundwater Polluted: http://www.theepochtimes.com/n3/2031587-more-than-80-percent-of-chinas-groundwater-polluted/


Pretty sure the windmill point was a flippant rhetorical remark meant to drive a point... as opposed to literally making the case for windmills.

At the same time - renewable energies are absolutely the future of humanity.



Renewables are one of the many answers to the future. I just wonder if when we get fusion power will renewables have a mass dieoff or will they stay competitive.
Posted 7/11/17 , edited 7/11/17

Rujikin wrote:

Renewables are one of the many answers to the future. I just wonder if when we get fusion power will renewables have a mass dieoff or will they stay competitive.


The issue with fusion power is that most people are still just a little skeptical about having a fusion reactor in their backyard... or anywhere near them. We'll see what'll happen when Europe jumps onto fusion power before the US (which is more likely than not). It'll be interesting to see if US ends up nuking themselves to death due to the earthquakes that plague the West Coast (at least one earthquake at 8.0 or higher per year and thousands of moderate to "major" earthquakes per year). The West could end up with a larger sample size of Japan and nuclear reactors.

Renewables are nice and all, just interesting to see how we're going to optimize the technology to stop damaging/impacting our environment overall.
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Posted 7/11/17 , edited 7/11/17
Fake News.
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