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Post Reply Why do people who are a few years older than someone act mean?
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Posted 7/17/17 , edited 7/17/17

jolietjoe wrote:


RalphNator wrote:

Why do people who are a few years older then someone act like mean all the time?


Younger generations, even my generation, have been propagandized into believing that speaking plainly and truthfully is a bad thing, especially if its not good feedback. Only butt kissing platitudes are acceptable feedback; anything else and one is 'being mean.'


It is a culture that rewards incompetence, unfortunately.


But I disagree, when someone's wrong, you should be able to tell them they are wrong, and articulate why.


Good point(s).
Now a days the truth is often considered "hate speech" or something of the like. And people often cannot handle crittercisim, even when it should be constructive. Everything considered offensive in some form now.
People never failing and getting participation medals and the like, are not helping prepare kids for real life.


RyukoKuroki wrote:

Because "older people" naturally feel that they are superior, give their age, how much they have "experienced" and that they know whats right for "youth" no matter what.


It will happen to you! lol seriously though, it happens to all of us. Some more then others but trust me.
Not sure that "superior" is the correct word though. Smarter, more experienced, more knowledgeable. Plus we all thought music was better back in the day and so was fashion and so was everything lol.
It WILL happen to you. I remenber when i was younger hearing the same shit and being told all the things i will grow out of and how things used to be different and what will happen if i dont do this or that(or do do this or that).
And as a kid you always think that you are smater than you actually are. Think you know it all. That's why we all do stupid shit when we are young, do risky things and bad things and make mistakes. Young and dumb is a real thing.
Again, different people are different and some adults never grow wise enough to make wise decisions. I know, i still act immature in some ways and still make poor decisions. But with age you learn so much.
And when we are young we dont like being told what to do and if anything we often act rebelious and do the opposite and really we all need to make mistakes for ourselfvesin order to learn. No matter how much advice is given and warnings given most kids will go out and make the mistakes or do shit they regret or get in trouble for regardless of advice. Takes acual experiences to learn.
But i garuntee that there will come in a time in your life where you will think back to what someone older said to you and be like "dam, they were right".

Shit now iam acting like an older person and giving a lecture ^^;

Posted 7/17/17

MrAnimeSK wrote:
There is truth in that statement though. Because experience is everything. Experiencing things first hand rather than talking about things that you have never experienced.
That's not to say that we stop doing that as we get older.

Experience is everything because you learn from it, you learn new skills and you learn from faliures and from making mistakes , learn from bad decisions, learn from interactions with other people, etc


I'd have to disagree, to an extent. While experience is fundamental to change one's own perspectives on things (to grow, as a person), I don't agree that "experience is everything". Professionally speaking, I tend to hire someone that's been out of college for less than 5 years over someone that's been out of college for over a decade (this is more of a self-analysis versus a "this rule is always met" mentality - nor is this age-based as the guys older than me I've hired were only fresh out of going back to school to learn something new). I think us older folks tend to get a stick up our asses at times and think that we're significantly more "enlightened" on a subject when we've become jaded by our experience. There's a delicate balance between the two (experience and knowledge) or between other things like "common sense and book sense".


MrAnimeSK wrote:
I think nowadays kids are more educated than kids from previous generations and it has made many of them know it alls, without having had actually experienced jack shit out there in the real world.


I've said something in another thread (politically-focused one) that said this in a slightly more tactful way. The issue is that too many people who are in their 30-50's think "those damn kids think they know everything!" (this originally stemmed from how Democrats changed their stance on the FBI/CIA - but the point remains the same). The reality is that many of those who are 18-28 just were not around for those "critical political moments" that caused Democrats to take over for 8 years. The vast majority of those on this forum are within this age range. This means that many people only have the sources given to them in order to "learn" about this era. Sure, a 28-year-old would have been around 11 years old when 9/11 happened - but the only real information they have is what was given to them online, by their parents/teachers, and so forth.

This even goes back to my generation or older generations. We all "missed" certain progress and can only learn from what material we have to learn from. Experience is only a factor - not everything. You weren't alive when certain things happened, neither was I.


MrAnimeSK wrote:
It's not just experience and knowledge, it's also maturity and your tastes changing. Plus (of course this varies for each individual) you tend to have more common sense when you are older.

But yes as for politics and that, whilst older people do and should have more knowledge about such things, alot of it is still opinion based. Raher than actually knowing better necessarily.


I do think it varies. Some people become more confident in themselves as they get older, they stop questioning things and just go with whatever is spoon-fed to them by the sources they trust. This goes with the conspiracy theorists to the SJWs to the hipsters that are sitting in rocking chairs smoking weed at 84 years of age. In the end, I find it better just to accept most things post as their opinion when there's not enough sources that peak around the corners that provide information.
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Posted 7/17/17
Some reference would be nice for this thread as to what exactly it is your referring to. For me it would really depend on the circumstances. a 16yr old telling me that how they view the world is how it really works would no go over well for me. As likely,.the 16yr old has only read in books or taken in bits and pieces of (insert media here). They have not seen the real world or realized that logic and common sense is not the basis for the worlds current state. To the same effect I suppose I would be more likely to heed correction from someone 10-20yrs older then I am. However this only works with some situations. if its a moral or philosophical issue.. I try to be open minded and tolerant.
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Posted 7/18/17
Yeah fair points ninjitsuko.

I guess kids can be "mean" to older people as well as far as how computer ilterate they can be and how stcuk in the past they are and etc.

Yeah i guess no point posting in this thread anymore unless OP gives better examples (i know OP was edited).

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Posted 7/19/17 , edited 7/19/17

RalphNator wrote:

Why do people who are a few years older then someone act like a fucking king in Queens clothing?


They act like Kevin James?...Oh, wait, sorry, that's "The King of Queens".


RalphNator wrote:

. I will. Maybe I will get my answer.


Please YouTube it when you do.

(It'll save a lot of discussion as to why.)
Posted 7/19/17

RalphNator wrote:

Why do people who are a few years older then someone act like a fucking king in Queens clothing?


> Let's see 21 yrs. old and your questioning why people are mean to you? you need to grow up the world is a ugly place out there take a look around.
> Come back and talk to me in another 10 yrs? oh wait I will probably be dead seeing how i'm so old...
Posted 7/19/17

ninjitsuko wrote:


MrAnimeSK wrote:
There is truth in that statement though. Because experience is everything. Experiencing things first hand rather than talking about things that you have never experienced.
That's not to say that we stop doing that as we get older.

Experience is everything because you learn from it, you learn new skills and you learn from faliures and from making mistakes , learn from bad decisions, learn from interactions with other people, etc


I'd have to disagree, to an extent. While experience is fundamental to change one's own perspectives on things (to grow, as a person), I don't agree that "experience is everything". Professionally speaking, I tend to hire someone that's been out of college for less than 5 years over someone that's been out of college for over a decade (this is more of a self-analysis versus a "this rule is always met" mentality - nor is this age-based as the guys older than me I've hired were only fresh out of going back to school to learn something new). I think us older folks tend to get a stick up our asses at times and think that we're significantly more "enlightened" on a subject when we've become jaded by our experience. There's a delicate balance between the two (experience and knowledge) or between other things like "common sense and book sense".


It makes me wonder what the heck you do hiring for - most professions, such choices are made simply because an entry level salary is easier to pay than an expert's salary. Unless you've already got an expert around to train them, and the time/space to train them...then you're just getting what you pay for. Most kids come out of college not being able to troubleshoot their way out of a paper bag.
Posted 7/19/17

jolietjoe wrote:
It makes me wonder what the heck you do hiring for - most professions, such choices are made simply because an entry level salary is easier to pay than an expert's salary. Unless you've already got an expert around to train them, and the time/space to train them...then you're just getting what you pay for. Most kids come out of college not being able to troubleshoot their way out of a paper bag.


Mostly Java/C++ programmers, onboarding specialists for certain third-party partners, and Tier 1 Technical Support (of our product). Older people in any of these fields are so jaded that they spend more time complaining about the client code being too "rigid" (because I'm particular about how the code is and want to make sure anyone [new or old] can understand what's being done) than being productive. Onboarding specialists are better off understanding that customers come first and enterprise customers have a certain expectation. Again, age equates to that "oh, this crap again..." mentality.

Out of the two 40+-year-olds I've hired in the last four years, neither of them is around (from either of the above departments). The first guy ended up trying to delete all backup copies of our software source because he thought it was "too neat and needed creativity" and the second was an onboarding guy who cussed out an enterprise customer because he didn't agree with what they did. Tier 2 is booked up with former-college guys who started (and I trained them myself). Tier 1 is for those who haven't enough knowledge of the platform to troubleshoot a user/password issue - which is hard to find anyone over the age of 25 willing to do that (even though it's $75k a year).

But what you said does remain true: I personally train those whom I hire. I do a knowledge transfer and get them to where I think they need to be in order to figure out things themselves.
Posted 7/19/17

ninjitsuko wrote:


jolietjoe wrote:
It makes me wonder what the heck you do hiring for - most professions, such choices are made simply because an entry level salary is easier to pay than an expert's salary. Unless you've already got an expert around to train them, and the time/space to train them...then you're just getting what you pay for. Most kids come out of college not being able to troubleshoot their way out of a paper bag.


Mostly Java/C++ programmers, onboarding specialists for certain third-party partners, and Tier 1 Technical Support (of our product). Older people in any of these fields are so jaded that they spend more time complaining about the client code being too "rigid" (because I'm particular about how the code is and want to make sure anyone [new or old] can understand what's being done) than being productive. Onboarding specialists are better off understanding that customers come first and enterprise customers have a certain expectation. Again, age equates to that "oh, this crap again..." mentality.

Out of the two 40+-year-olds I've hired in the last four years, neither of them is around (from either of the above departments). The first guy ended up trying to delete all backup copies of our software source because he thought it was "too neat and needed creativity" and the second was an onboarding guy who cussed out an enterprise customer because he didn't agree with what they did. Tier 2 is booked up with former-college guys who started (and I trained them myself). Tier 1 is for those who haven't enough knowledge of the platform to troubleshoot a user/password issue - which is hard to find anyone over the age of 25 willing to do that (even though it's $75k a year).

But what you said does remain true: I personally train those whom I hire. I do a knowledge transfer and get them to where I think they need to be in order to figure out things themselves.


Makes some sense when the tech is new enough....but I did have a div/0 at the idea of a company paying someone 75k to do a tier 1 job, that's the kind of stuff most people are botting or have long since outsourced to indians for and paying them about 3 fitty an hour for!

Anyone that deletes a backup of something deserves to get shitcanned!
Posted 7/19/17 , edited 7/19/17

jolietjoe wrote:
Makes some sense when the tech is new enough....but I did have a div/0 at the idea of a company paying someone 75k to do a tier 1 job, that's the kind of stuff most people are botting or have long since outsourced to indians for and paying them about 3 fitty an hour for!

Anyone that deletes a backup of something deserves to get shitcanned!


When I started this company as a developer/tier 3 guy, tier 1 was outsourced through what's now known as "Upwork" (used to be called Odesk). They got paid somewhere around $4.75-5 an hour and most of them were from the Phillippines. The issue with this was that most of them were "subcontracted" by a group that got a gross percentage of their wages. This lead to them literally doing nearly nothing. I couldn't blame them.

Once I got bumped up to Director and Lead/Senior Developer, getting rid of those guys and hiring local (well, Americans - most of tier 1 are remote workers like myself) employees. They get paid well because they're the front line of "customer cussing you out for nothing" onslaught. They get next to zero thanks and take the blunt of most people's wrath.

As for the guy that was trying to delete backups ... yeah, I got an alert on my phone through our server monitoring software that an attempt to delete a backup and its source file had been made. Let's just say that it was one of the few times I've been in a hurry to get to a Starbucks to completely remove his access. He was one of those near-50 year olds who demanded to be relevant and thought that people my age (29 at the time) didn't know how to handle "real threats" like what he was trying to do. GG, fired without a letter of recommendation.
Posted 7/19/17

ninjitsuko wrote:


jolietjoe wrote:
Makes some sense when the tech is new enough....but I did have a div/0 at the idea of a company paying someone 75k to do a tier 1 job, that's the kind of stuff most people are botting or have long since outsourced to indians for and paying them about 3 fitty an hour for!

Anyone that deletes a backup of something deserves to get shitcanned!


When I started this company as a developer/tier 3 guy, tier 1 was outsourced through what's now known as "Upwork" (used to be called Odesk). They got paid somewhere around $4.75-5 an hour and most of them were from the Phillippines. The issue with this was that most of them were "subcontracted" by a group that got a gross percentage of their wages. This lead to them literally doing nearly nothing. I couldn't blame them.

Once I got bumped up to Director and Lead/Senior Developer, getting rid of those guys and hiring local (well, Americans - most of tier 1 are remote workers like myself) employees. They get paid well because they're the front line of "customer cussing you out for nothing" onslaught. They get next to zero thanks and take the blunt of most people's wrath.


Props for doing the right thing, man...still a head scratcher about such a high salary for tier 1 much less 2 or 3...I mean I'm up there and get paid well, but I put my time in and got 20 years in the biz. Going in to the office these days is just a recipe for all kinds of non-work conversations that sap time out of my day. (Way more than a few minutes here and there, like being here is.)
Posted 7/19/17

jolietjoe wrote:
Props for doing the right thing, man...still a head scratcher about such a high salary for tier 1 much less 2 or 3...I mean I'm up there and get paid well, but I put my time in and got 20 years in the biz. Going in to the office these days is just a recipe for all kinds of non-work conversations that sap time out of my day. (Way more than a few minutes here and there, like being here is.)


Long story short: shit got real and to keep them on, we gave them a pretty hefty promotion. CEO thought we were about to get acquired and bumped it to a bit for everyone. Didn't get acquired, but my overhaul of the client has brought in a massive amount of profit in the last 8 months (since shit got real). So it's balanced out, the guys are earning their pay by basically becoming Tier 2.5 (the pay raise encouraged them to improve their skill set - one even learned Java in the last 3-5 months to the point where they can do some basic troubleshooting on the servlets).

I feel you, though. When all of my projects are completed, I slack off like crazy. I'm on vacation this week and pop in here when I'm editing photos or early morning while sipping coffee (and working on a personal project/idea of mine). Work days get sapped on CR because there's not a lot of things going on other than shittalking with the other guys on Skype and teaching them whatever they ask to be taught.
Posted 7/19/17

ninjitsuko wrote:


jolietjoe wrote:
Props for doing the right thing, man...still a head scratcher about such a high salary for tier 1 much less 2 or 3...I mean I'm up there and get paid well, but I put my time in and got 20 years in the biz. Going in to the office these days is just a recipe for all kinds of non-work conversations that sap time out of my day. (Way more than a few minutes here and there, like being here is.)


Long story short: shit got real and to keep them on, we gave them a pretty hefty promotion. CEO thought we were about to get acquired and bumped it to a bit for everyone. Didn't get acquired, but my overhaul of the client has brought in a massive amount of profit in the last 8 months (since shit got real). So it's balanced out, the guys are earning their pay by basically becoming Tier 2.5 (the pay raise encouraged them to improve their skill set - one even learned Java in the last 3-5 months to the point where they can do some basic troubleshooting on the servlets).

I feel you, though. When all of my projects are completed, I slack off like crazy. I'm on vacation this week and pop in here when I'm editing photos or early morning while sipping coffee (and working on a personal project/idea of mine). Work days get sapped on CR because there's not a lot of things going on other than shittalking with the other guys on Skype and teaching them whatever they ask to be taught.


Again, props to you and your company for doing the right thing, seeing value in the company, and reinvesting in the business and in the business knowledge of those who work for you. There is tremendous value in this that many in the corporate world dont see, most of the 6/7 figure types just want to say screwit and not put in the real work and roll up their sleeves to make the business more solid and would rather chase profits at the casino *cough* I mean stock market instead.

Big hearty thumbs up!
Posted 7/19/17

jolietjoe wrote:
Again, props to you and your company for doing the right thing, seeing value in the company, and reinvesting in the business and in the business knowledge of those who work for you. There is tremendous value in this that many in the corporate world dont see, most of the 6/7 figure types just want to say screwit and not put in the real work and roll up their sleeves to make the business more solid and would rather chase profits at the casino *cough* I mean stock market instead.

Big hearty thumbs up!


There's always a chance that the shit hits the fan and falls flat out of nowhere. The executives all said they'd stick around with a 25% cut to ensure that the lower tiers of employees would get a raise to encourage them to continue working with us. Nobody knows how long the boat will stay afloat but they're damn-well trying to strap a jet engine to it. Lol
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Posted 7/19/17
Well to cycle back to the debate's origin, why is it mean?

I think we've become used to everyone trying to be a comedian. I have one friend who is a gifted programmer (to my poor eyes at any rate). But any and all of his advice comes off like a bad comedian routine where they try to be the asshat. If I step back I can see he's trying to be a bit funny about it, just failing miserably.

The charges in my office under my care has the oldest one talk in non-stop cynical snipes at everyone he believes steps out of line and actively sabotages their work. (He too, is smart, so he knows how to do just enough to not get in trouble).

Heck i'm reading philosophy books from millennia past and the slightly older people are taking a complete dump on the youngsters who pose sensible yet insufficiently thought-out opinions. The wise guy is quite often 'mean.'

Really I think the issue is to realize and accept everyone has the capacity to be mean, Friends, Family, Coworkers, etc. Working with and through others 'mean' streaks is I think the goal.
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