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Post Reply Police should not fire unless fired upon
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Posted 7/17/17 , edited 7/17/17
That would be an insane policy. Don't fire unless fired upon? Do you think this is some anime? Because that's a good way to get a lot of police killed.

You may not like the world the way it is, but it's that way for a reason. Police do what they need to. Reality isn't as kind as you'd like it to be.

Edit after reading the article:
Those officers failed to follow basic policy when they failed to turn on their cams. We don't know what happened yet, but for that alone they should be harshly punished.

But there is nothing in this story that states that police need to change what they do, only that people are idiots and don't DO what they are supposed to in the first place, which is likely the real issue here.
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Posted 7/17/17 , edited 7/17/17

DevinKuska wrote:

Not sure where your from but in the US you do realize the police legally have no obligation to shoot someone about to commit a crime right? Technically their job is to enforce laws. until the person kills your loved one they are not legally obligated to do anything. Now thats not what usually happens but if they did nothing until after the fact the law would still side with the officer.


It wasn't a question of what the police officer could legally do or not, but whether the poster would feel the same way if a police officer failed to do his job and that was the excuse he provided for it. Sure, a police officer could probably legally stand around watching as some bad dude shot bystander after bystander, but he would be shirking his duty in doing so, and probably wouldn't have a job for long. The station would catch some major hell from the community as well.


Edit:
The other issue with the topic creators reasoning is that if the police officer waits to be fired upon before firing, it isn't just that he could be killed. Once the police officer is dead or incapacitated, you now have a criminal, that would go so far as killing a police officer, who now has access to a further arsenal of deadly weapons with which to kill other people.
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Posted 7/17/17 , edited 7/17/17
Do you know what people will do when they know the cop won't react or retaliate?



Terrible story though, hopefully the justice system isn't completely inept on this case.
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Posted 7/17/17 , edited 7/17/17

PandaSamaBoi wrote: This police fiasco goes beyond targeting my fellow African Americans at this point.

Now, not all cops are bad. Not even most of them are, but there are too many jumpy and untrained dolts running around with a badge and a gun.
hmmm... Also if you think so, you could try to be in their shoes.
But I agree that some have some issues in their views or sometimes often take the law in their own hands.
As well with events that could be handled better. (those who have given up and ends up with breaking bones or more serious things)

I dunno why you should make this about race issues or about race at all?
"goes beyond targeting my fellow African Americans at this point"

Sorry but the cops might have gained a bit of a "racist view" when dealing with bullshit like "death to all cops" or "fry em like bacon".
To those who are so against cops that they shoot them even when they are not on duty.
This circle of hatred will just continue with how some of the people are acting around these issues.
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Posted 7/17/17

GooseMcDucks wrote:


PandaSamaBoi wrote: This police fiasco goes beyond targeting my fellow African Americans at this point.

Now, not all cops are bad. Not even most of them are, but there are too many jumpy and untrained dolts running around with a badge and a gun.
hmmm... Also if you think so, you could try to be in their shoes.
But I agree that some have some issues in their views or sometimes often take the law in their own hands.
As well with events that could be handled better. (those who have given up and ends up with breaking bones or more serious things)

I dunno why you should make this about race issues or about race at all?
"goes beyond targeting my fellow African Americans at this point"

Sorry but the cops might have gained a bit of a "racist view" when dealing with bullshit like "death to all cops" or "fry em like bacon".
To those who are so against cops that they shoot them even when they are not on duty.
This circle of hatred will just continue with how some of the people are acting around these issues.


There is racial tension between the AA community and the police, this is blatantly obvious. It seems like quite a few police officers are more high strung around AA men, and they seem to lose their rationality and composure. I brought it up because it is a problem, but now they just beat up, attack, and shoot anybody. Hopefully this prompts those biased pro police douches to see there are too many untrained officers popping off their guns for no reason. Maybe I didn't need to bring up race, but regardless something needs to change, too many innocent people are getting hurt.
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Posted 7/17/17

GooseMcDucks wrote:

I dunno why you should make this about race issues or about race at all?
"goes beyond targeting my fellow African Americans at this point"
.


So much this. It's not a race issue, nor has it been in years and years.

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Posted 7/17/17

PandaSamaBoi wrote:


There is racial tension between the AA community and the police, this is blatantly obvious


And do you think that is somehow the fault of the police?
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Posted 7/17/17

PandaSamaBoi wrote:


There is racial tension between the AA community and the police, this is blatantly obvious. It seems like quite a few police officers are more high strung around AA men, and they seem to lose their rationality and composure. I brought it up because it is a problem, but now they just beat up, attack, and shoot anybody. Hopefully this prompts those biased pro police douches to see there are too many untrained officers popping off their guns for no reason. Maybe I didn't need to bring up race, but regardless something needs to change, too many innocent people are getting hurt.


The "Tension" your referring to could easily be dealt with if members of BLM were a bit more reasonable in their statements. I say that because the only tensions I am aware of between those of african descent and the police is based on this faulty belief that somehow Police are the biggest threat to the US's African culture. Facts do not support this line of thinking

http://www.politifact.com/florida/article/2015/may/21/updated-look-statistics-black-black-murders

https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/bvvc.pdf

http://www.intellectualtakeout.org/blog/chicago-75-murdered-are-black-71-murderers-are-black

https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2013/crime-in-the-u.s.-2013/offenses-known-to-law-enforcement/expanded-homicide/expanded_homicide_data_table_6_murder_race_and_sex_of_vicitm_by_race_and_sex_of_offender_2013.xls

The list of information goes on and on. Most of the tension is based on certain groups generating hysteria to their targeted demographic. I would encourage you to look at a few links and decide for yourself. Though i do agree that we do need to do something about when people who are actually innocent (this story or the gentlemen shot reaching for his wallet in his gfs car) get shot without any real justification other then police officer saying he feared for his life.
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Posted 7/17/17

Yokoshima333 wrote:


PandaSamaBoi wrote:


There is racial tension between the AA community and the police, this is blatantly obvious


And do you think that is somehow the fault of the police?


They don't help when several officers are all on one guy, and either tase or beat the crap out of him when it doesn't look like he's struggling. But idk how to fix it, I'll end this convo here.
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Posted 7/17/17
The idea of giving a police officer carte blanche to shoot someone at the slightest perceived provocation is scary. How is anyone supposed to trust and talk to the police when you never know what might set them off into shooting you.
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Posted 7/17/17 , edited 7/17/17

DevinKuska wrote:


PandaSamaBoi wrote:


There is racial tension between the AA community and the police, this is blatantly obvious. It seems like quite a few police officers are more high strung around AA men, and they seem to lose their rationality and composure. I brought it up because it is a problem, but now they just beat up, attack, and shoot anybody. Hopefully this prompts those biased pro police douches to see there are too many untrained officers popping off their guns for no reason. Maybe I didn't need to bring up race, but regardless something needs to change, too many innocent people are getting hurt.


The "Tension" your referring to could easily be dealt with if members of BLM were a bit more reasonable in their statements. I say that because the only tensions I am aware of between those of african descent and the police is based on this faulty belief that somehow Police are the biggest threat to the US's African culture. Facts do not support this line of thinking

http://www.politifact.com/florida/article/2015/may/21/updated-look-statistics-black-black-murders

https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/bvvc.pdf

http://www.intellectualtakeout.org/blog/chicago-75-murdered-are-black-71-murderers-are-black

https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2013/crime-in-the-u.s.-2013/offenses-known-to-law-enforcement/expanded-homicide/expanded_homicide_data_table_6_murder_race_and_sex_of_vicitm_by_race_and_sex_of_offender_2013.xls

The list of information goes on and on. Most of the tension is based on certain groups generating hysteria to their targeted demographic. I would encourage you to look at a few links and decide for yourself. Though i do agree that we do need to do something about when people who are actually innocent (this story or the gentlemen shot reaching for his wallet in his gfs car) get shot without any real justification other then police officer saying he feared for his life.


Black on black violence is a problem, and I acknowledge that, but the police are also a problem, not as much as AA killing fellow AAs. But the first article you sent to me stated 84% of white victims are killed by white people. So it's not just blacks killing their own, white people do it as well but the media likes to focus on the negative sides of blacks, and the negativity of everything to be honest, all to spin opinions a certain way. Perhaps there is less violence with whites, but this is a whole different topic. There would be less violence in the AA community if there were more opportunities offered to young children and teens. They get this mentality that the only way out of the "hood" is to become a baller or a rapper. These kids can play basketball for a team at school, and that's about it. They don't have many activities to occupy themselves with (like at a primarily white school in a generally rich area, where the kids for a good percentage of them, come from good families with money, and have plenty of activities to occupy themselves with, not to mention good education. This is not the case everywhere though, this is an example.) Poverty will drive young black teens to go find ways to make money, often illegal ways. This creates violence. Young AA also have a tendency to make fun of education and take it as a joke. (I go to an ALL black high school, so I know this firsthand.) I just went off topic a bit but that's a small piece to unraveling why shit is the way it is. Impoverished communities, with little money and activities to bring up a kid, breeds criminals, and this continues for generations.

BLM is another topic. They MEAN to do good, and they don't mean JUST black lives matter. They're basically saying all lives matter, but black lives matter too, and they're saying it because it seems like to the police that they don't matter. The group is not put together that well. There are too many dickheads doing all this bad stuff putting the whole group in a negative light. (Like blocking off an entire freeway). I really don't feel like discussing BLM lol, this type of stuff gets ugly fast, and this is why I USUALLY avoid political posts, but I failed to do so this time lol.

Edit: America just has alot of problems. This is why I watch anime and game to escape this shit lol.
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Posted 7/17/17 , edited 7/17/17

moonhawk81 wrote:


MysticGon wrote:

https://www.rt.com/usa/396510-woman-killed-police-shooting/

Just another in a long line of senseless killings. Police officers know what they are signing up for when they take the job. The general public never expect to get gunned down by those who are sworn to protect and serve.

I feel police officers and the frightened, trigger happy lot among them must not discharge their weapons until fired upon. And since cops have proven to be as dishonest and the average person caught doing something wrong cameras should be rolling at all times. They have the right to take lives so they should be held at the highest of standards.

No preemptive strikes, no "but they had a knife or they were reaching ". Police officers that treat life like fodder should be prevented from using lethal force at every turn with safeguards to protect the public.


Are you a police officer? If not, then I respectfully submit that you are ignorant of certain important aspects, responsibilities, and liabilities of the job. To wit, you are not in a position to issue a blanket statement about the profession. Do you disagree with this individual officer's actions? Obviously. But to extrapolate suppositions about all police officers from that is just plain wrong. I'm proud of the job I do and the profession in which I serve. And I do NOT think that I must allow someone to shoot me first before I can [re]act. If I allow myself to be hurt, then whom can I protect?

Very rarely have I bothered to call a Forums comment "offensive" to me. I shall make exception for this one.


At least you are alive to feel offended. As a member of the public which police officers would be sworn to protect and serve I would feel safer with this policy in place. A society where you have to fear the police as much as the criminals is not a free society. We'll just have to agree to disagree, respectfully of course.
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Posted 7/17/17 , edited 7/17/17

Kavalion wrote:

Hard to say if we should blame police or immigrants named Mohamed.


lmao
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Posted 7/17/17 , edited 7/17/17

DevinKuska wrote:
The "Tension" your referring to could easily be dealt with if members of BLM were a bit more reasonable in their statements. I say that because the only tensions I am aware of between those of african descent and the police is based on this faulty belief that somehow Police are the biggest threat to the US's African culture. Facts do not support this line of thinking


Er, what? Your facts essentially say that people tend to shoot people who are in range of their guns.

Racial tensions in America, especially between police and communities, didn't just suddenly start in 2013.



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Posted 7/17/17

PandaSamaBoi wrote:

This police fiasco goes beyond targeting my fellow African Americans at this point. Some police officers will simply off anybody now. I'm not sure what this poor woman did to be shot, after all she did only call the police. I guess 911 is the Free Murder Hotline nowadays.

Now, not all cops are bad. Not even most of them are, but there are too many jumpy and untrained dolts running around with a badge and a gun.


I agree.
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