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Post Reply Police should not fire unless fired upon
runec 
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Posted 7/17/17 , edited 7/17/17

DevinKuska wrote:
Actually it is, its even in their mission statement. Unless al the sites I have looked up are false(not impossible to be sure). My bringing up race vs race murder rates is because in the media I constantly see people claiming to be with BLM stating the "Black Men" fear police because somehow the police are out to kill "black" people. The links I provided show this is probably they least of their worries. As far as police protecting and serving... I dont know. Personally i feel that motto is misleading. From the 4 police officers I know (1 state trooper, 1 sheriff deputy, 2 city police) it should more be "To enforce" rather then "Serve and protect" as far as how police agencies are structured and ran.


Where does that say the police are the biggest threat African Americas face? And yes, they do fear police in some areas and rightly so. There's never just one "bad apple". If you live in an area with some "bad apple" officers then it is, as the saying goes, the entire bunch. The local precincts themselves quite likely have a systematic problem with their police culture. Stations full of good cops don't typically tolerate bad cops. Stations full of bad cops are going to push out good cops. If you live in a community with the former, great. You've probably never had any problems. If you live in a community with the latter, you're probably fucked and people living in said other community shrug and wonder what you're complaining about.

If you have a violent / racist / shithead officer on the force, there's no way at least some of his colleagues aren't aware of it. But police cultural in some areas tends to go all Blue Wall and bunker down in a victim mentality. All to protect one asshole.

Also the mission statement is two down on the left hand menu there. Try clicking that instead.
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Posted 7/17/17

Nasigno wrote:


ran76 wrote:


Shipwright wrote:

I disagree. Police officers should be able to defend themselves when they are threatened rather than waiting to get shot and possibly killed. I really dislike when people take a headline about an instance in which a cop appears to be in the wrong and use it as justification to label all cops as unprofessional and "trigger happy." Police officers aren't fodder either, you know. They're human beings.


To use another incident as an example: how is shooting someone in the back that's trying to run a danger to the officer again? Did the suspect lay a silent but deadly?


Why you running? We could argue this all day and say Person A was armed, dangerous and had 330 deaths under his belt, or Person B was the second coming of Jesus, either way why you running from police? What are they willing to do to get away? How many people will they hurt to get away?

It's all fun and games till your loved one gets hurt cause police chasing someone "let them get away" cause y'know its bad to shoot fleeing suspects who more than likely are not in the right state of mind.

Likewise in some of those "incidents" the person prior attacked the officer then fled, that presents they are violent and willing to do whatever to get away. If they are willing to attack police, they are willing to attack other -unarmed- people. You do not want to let someone like that get away.


running isn't an automatic death sentence though. and there was no evidence the cop was attacked previously or that the suspect was armed. again what is the cop worried about? how was he in imminent danger? here's a hint, he wasn't in danger and the cop even plead guilty to a federal charge
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Posted 7/17/17 , edited 7/17/17

runec wrote:


DevinKuska wrote:
Actually it is, its even in their mission statement. Unless al the sites I have looked up are false(not impossible to be sure). My bringing up race vs race murder rates is because in the media I constantly see people claiming to be with BLM stating the "Black Men" fear police because somehow the police are out to kill "black" people. The links I provided show this is probably they least of their worries. As far as police protecting and serving... I dont know. Personally i feel that motto is misleading. From the 4 police officers I know (1 state trooper, 1 sheriff deputy, 2 city police) it should more be "To enforce" rather then "Serve and protect" as far as how police agencies are structured and ran.


Where does that say the police are the biggest threat African Americas face? And yes, they do fear police in some areas and rightly so. There's never just one "bad apple". If you live in an area with some "bad apple" officers then it is, as the saying goes, the entire bunch. The local precincts themselves quite likely have a systematic problem with their police culture. Stations full of good cops don't typically tolerate bad cops. Stations full of bad cops are going to push out good cops. If you live in a community with the former, great. You've probably never had any problems. If you live in a community with the latter, you're probably fucked and people living in said other community shrug and wonder what you're complaining about.

If you have a violent / racist / shithead officer on the force, there's no way at least some of his colleagues aren't aware of it. But police cultural in some areas tends to go all Blue Wall and bunker down in a victim mentality. All to protect one asshole.

Also the mission statement is two down on the left hand menu there. Try clicking that instead.


I live with Seattle Police which have made national headlines and are currently under DOJ supervision but for repeated excessive force complaints. I know two Seattle Police and yes they do tolerate bad cops, its not really a choice. The way the police depts are set up its VERY difficult to transfer or fire an officer for anything short of criminal acts. That said the "Fraternal order" dioesnt usually get subjected to prosecution (which was my beef in my original statement). Add to this that if you file a report or complaint about anyone in your department it gets circulated and might as well have been broadcast over a megaphone. This lack of discretion (at least from the two I am friends with) causes officers to feel as though they cannot report blatant bad behavior for fear of retaliation if the complaint is dismissed, or the person continues to work in same jurisdiction.

I think this is where you and I can agree on. the "Blue wall" as you called it is the main issue. Some of these officers in recent events are blatantly obvious. When you have the vast majority of police never firing their weapon in 10+years of service but have 1 guy who's shot 8 people... then its time to question whether said individual is really an asset. If nothing else there ability to de-escalate is questionable.

As to where it states on the website about police being biggest threat. It doesnt state it exactly. i was paraphrasing media clips I hear from NPR radio(only news I bother with on the drive to work) though "#BlackLivesMatter is working for a world where Black lives are no longer systematically and intentionally targeted for demise." saying your being targeted... by police or otherwise... idk to me sounds a bit paranoid.

EDIT: ahh sorry when I posted link I was looking at mission statement but link posted brings you to home page when I clicked it. sorry about that.
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Posted 7/17/17

Yokoshima333 wrote:


PandaSamaBoi wrote:


Yokoshima333 wrote:


PandaSamaBoi wrote:


There is racial tension between the AA community and the police, this is blatantly obvious


And do you think that is somehow the fault of the police?


They don't help when several officers are all on one guy, and either tase or beat the crap out of him when it doesn't look like he's struggling. But idk how to fix it, I'll end this convo here.


Beating them is something that is not common, which is why "tazing" is. Now if they followed orders I guarantee it would cut down on issues by at least 90%.


In a just world you would be right. In the real world, a cooperating suspect gets spartan kicked in the chest and ends up with cracked ribs, or shot for turning his back to the cop
runec 
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Posted 7/17/17 , edited 7/17/17

DevinKuska wrote:
I live with Seattle Police which have made national headlines and are currently under DOJ supervision but for repeated excessive force complaints. I know two Seattle Police and yes they do tolerate bad cops, its not really a choice. The way the police depts are set up its VERY difficult to transfer or fire an officer for anything short of criminal acts. That said the "Fraternal order" dioesnt usually get subjected to prosecution (which was my beef in my original statement). Add to this that if you file a report or complaint about anyone in your department it gets circulated and might as well have been broadcast over a megaphone. This lack of discretion (at least from the two I am friends with) causes officers to feel as though they cannot report blatant bad behavior for fear of retaliation if the complaint is dismissed, or the person continues to work in same jurisdiction.


That's part of the sort of thing I was alluding to, yes. Departments shouldn't have a snitches get stitches mentality with their fellow officers. Nor should they have to fear retaliation for just being decent human beings. I've heard problems like that with the NYPD as well.



DevinKuska wrote:I think this is where you and I can agree on. the "Blue wall" as you called it is the main issue. Some of these officers in recent events are blatantly obvious. When you have the vast majority of police never firing their weapon in 10+years of service but have 1 guy who's shot 8 people... then its time to question whether said individual is really an asset. If nothing else there ability to de-escalate is questionable.


That's another thing, yeah. When we get a story like this its rare that its some officer with no prior issues. Even in this case, this officer still has two prior complaints open against him. In other cases, like Tamir Rice, the officer had literally resigned from another precinct because of emotional instability and a "severe lack of composure" whenever he held a firearm. Then somehow got a job as a cop again. Then somehow despite all that did not get indicted.



DevinKuska wrote:
As to where it states on the website about police being biggest threat. It doesnt state it exactly. i was paraphrasing media clips I hear from NPR radio(only news I bother with on the drive to work) though "#BlackLivesMatter is working for a world where Black lives are no longer systematically and intentionally targeted for demise." saying your being targeted... by police or otherwise... idk to me sounds a bit paranoid.


On one hand it may sound a little paranoid to me as well. But on the other hand, I can't claim to have the same negative and systematic experiences with police and the justice system. As I am both not American and embarrassingly white. So I know I am in no position to judge and instead I try to understand where they're coming from.

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Posted 7/18/17
Yeah i found out about this a day ago because the parents were FUMING and it made the news.

i hear the parents are trying to press charges in some way
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Posted 7/18/17 , edited 7/18/17
"Minnesota police wear body cameras, but the officers involved did not have their cameras turned on at the time."

"Police said a squad camera also failed to capture the incident, and investigators were seeking to determine if any video of the incident existed."

That's not suspicious at all there is more to suggest foul play on first look then anything i wonder what will come of it.






"The Hennepin County Medical Examiner, after conducting an autopsy on Ms Damond, has issued a statement saying the fatal police shooting was a homicide. She died from a gunshot wound to her abdomen.
Police say officers were responding to a call about a possible assault late on Saturday when Ms Damond was killed. Authorities have released no details about what led to the shooting.
But a history of complaints made against the police officer who shot Ms Damond, including one incident which he is being sued for, has also emerged.
"'

http://www.news.com.au/world/north-america/shooting-death-of-justine-damond-in-minneapolis-sparks-calls-for-federal-investigation/news-story/2d2486888c0c6d8fa1ca3d8f4bc7df91

CASE SOLVED-ish
runec 
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Posted 7/18/17
Its only been a week since they shot something with no explanation.

http://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2017/07/10/harteau-responds-officer-dog-shooting/
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Posted 7/18/17 , edited 7/18/17
I don't even know what to think of police brutality. Triggered by people who chances taking a shot on someone in an alley they think is burglar and shoots the one who dialed 911.

Honestly every PO needs to be tested before they can carry a gun. Hand the guy a gun with blanks, and see what he does on incidents that doesn't require anyone to be shot. Of course that would get old and my ideas are dumb.
But really... Handing out guns to people just because they got an education seems like education = trust. Smart people does not equal reasonable people.

Anyways. This guy "Noor" has got complains multiple times, now sued twice and a case which can't be made public... How does this lunatic keep his job? He even gets a paid leave AKA vacation for killing an innocent women, hooooly s***!

I'm done
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Posted 7/18/17
That is good and all, but only works if their up against Han Solo as he shot first
Posted 7/18/17
Didn't read the entire thread, did anyone mention the cop was a Somali immigrant that was fast tracked into being a police officer?

Instead of two years of training he only had to take four months, because he was 'non traditional'




The departments then pay for training at Hennepin Technical College that would normally take 2 years that's squeezed into just 4 months, while giving the trainees a a salary at the same time.


http://www.fox9.com/news/267094891-story


St. Louis Park Police say the program gives them a larger pool of potential candidates to hire from, while diversifying their police force at the same time.



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Posted 7/18/17 , edited 7/18/17

Amyas_Leigh wrote:

Didn't read the entire thread, did anyone mention the cop was a Somali immigrant that was fast tracked into being a police officer?

Instead of two years of training he only had to take four months, because he was 'non traditional'




The departments then pay for training at Hennepin Technical College that would normally take 2 years that's squeezed into just 4 months, while giving the trainees a a salary at the same time.


http://www.fox9.com/news/267094891-story


St. Louis Park Police say the program gives them a larger pool of potential candidates to hire from, while diversifying their police force at the same time.





Jumping on the anti-immigrants train as usual i see.
(even if his training was unfair)
runec 
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Posted 7/18/17 , edited 7/18/17

Amyas_Leigh wrote:
Didn't read the entire thread, did anyone mention the cop was a Somali immigrant that was fast tracked into being a police officer?

Instead of two years of training he only had to take four months, because he was 'non traditional'


No, because that program began in 2017 and this officer was hired in 2015.

If you're going to start your usual bullshit at least put in a minimum of effort. -.-



qwueri 
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Posted 7/18/17 , edited 7/18/17

Amyas_Leigh wrote:

Didn't read the entire thread, did anyone mention the cop was a Somali immigrant that was fast tracked into being a police officer?

Instead of two years of training he only had to take four months, because he was 'non traditional'




The departments then pay for training at Hennepin Technical College that would normally take 2 years that's squeezed into just 4 months, while giving the trainees a a salary at the same time.


http://www.fox9.com/news/267094891-story


St. Louis Park Police say the program gives them a larger pool of potential candidates to hire from, while diversifying their police force at the same time.




Do you have an article actually citing that the officer was fast-tracked in that program? Because the article you linked sounds like a new program whose first graduates finish in October and was available only to those who at least had a two year degree already, and Noor is reported to have been on the force for two years.

Two police officers responded and one of them -- who had served only two years on the force -- shot the 40-year-old in the abdomen, killing her, according to police and the autopsy released Monday.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/07/18/us/justine-ruszczyk-minneapolis-shooting-australia/index.html
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Posted 7/18/17

runec wrote:


Amyas_Leigh wrote:
Didn't read the entire thread, did anyone mention the cop was a Somali immigrant that was fast tracked into being a police officer?

Instead of two years of training he only had to take four months, because he was 'non traditional'


No, because that program began in 2017 and this officer was hired in 2015.

If you're going to start your usual bullshit at least put in a minimum of effort. -.-





No Runec he is right if this guy wasn't an immigrant it would of never happened! /s
Posted 7/18/17 , edited 7/19/17

qwueri wrote:


Do you have an article actually citing that the officer was fast-tracked in that program? Because the article you linked sounds like a new program whose first graduates finish in October and was available only to those who at least had a two year degree already, and Noor is reported to have been on the force for two years.


Oh, didn't catch that and the date. Still, I'll bet there were more qualified candidates turned down, if there wasn't a similar program in place (affirmative action anyone?) at the time of his hiring. Reading about how the mayor congratulated him for his added "diversity" to the police force makes me think there probably was.

Reminds me of the recent hiring of a former child soldier from Sudan in Atlanta. That can't end badly, right?
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Posted 7/18/17
Police should fire when people's lives are in danger, and when there is truly a threat
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