Post Reply Politicians as Code Geass Characters
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Posted 7/30/17 , edited 7/30/17
We're all celebrating Code Geass arriving at Crunchyroll, and I think we need something fun everyone can appreciate without hating each other, in the spirit of the suggestion BlueOni made a while ago:


BlueOni wrote:

I figured it might've been the flurry of cute anime girls in MAGA hats and SS uniforms that seemed to catch on for a while (not that the two are comparable, just that they're both found in those places). Of course, if that really bothers someone there are always cute anime girls in Soviet uniforms to counter with. A good meme war might do CR General good. Lighten the mood around here.


Let's compare politicians to Code Geass characters. Last week the universe obligingly gave us submission #1: Anthony Scaramucci, as Diethard Ried:



Now, I think this can work, and that we can avoid flaming and hating each other with this. But I think that requires me to impose just one rule:

Rule for this thread: Argue as much as you want about why the politician is like the character you chose - even saying that the politician is stupid or evil is fine - but remember it's a game. Take it all in stride, and don't attack each other about it. If someone's post makes you mad, counter with another post with another character, or argue about the merits of the post's identification of a politician with a character. Talk about the politician with regards to the comparison, and nothing else. My idea of this is that the best comparison is one everyone from all sides can laugh at and agree with.

I hope this works, and that we can enjoy doing this together. I want to see what everyone comes up with.
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Posted 7/30/17
Can we just... not?

These characters are so complex, and so compelling, and... not only that, but what makes them that way has nothing to do with their "politics". Stated or otherwise. It's actually a good case study as to why you shouldn't just make judgments about people. About why, when someone's ignorant, it's because they lack experience, and that once they gain that experience, and get to know someone who's circumstances are different, they can become a better person. The point of the story is that vengeance is wrong and immature, and that forgiveness and mercy are better things.

. . . . . . but this is fandom, so, no one gets that, everyone hates Villetta and Nina, and no one takes the time to see past the surface of anything so... no one's going to listen to this, so whatever.



My idea of this is that the best comparison is one everyone from all sides can laugh at and agree with.


That's... not... going to happen. In an ideal world, maybe, but in the team-sports politics of the real world?
xxJing 
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Posted 7/30/17
I don't know. I mean many of the Code Geass main characters were actually more idealistic than despotic. Even Charles, as much of an asshole as he seemed to be, wanted to basically bring peace to the world, although be it through the force of the magical god.

Lelouche wanted 2 things, revenge for his mother and safety for his sister. Suzaku thought he could win freedom for Japan by working up the ranks of the Britannian knights. I suppose the one genuinely evil person may have been Schneizel.
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LavenderMintRose wrote:

Can we just... not?

These characters are so complex, and so compelling, and... not only that, but what makes them that way has nothing to do with their "politics". Stated or otherwise. It's actually a good case study as to why you shouldn't just make judgments about people. About why, when someone's ignorant, it's because they lack experience, and that once they gain that experience, and get to know someone who's circumstances are different, they can become a better person. The point of the story is that vengeance is wrong and immature, and that forgiveness and mercy are better things.

. . . . . . but this is fandom, so, no one gets that, everyone hates Villetta and Nina, and no one takes the time to see past the surface of anything so... no one's going to listen to this, so whatever.



I am aware that the characters aren't one-dimensional, and that they don't fit into clear-cut political categories. I don't think you have to worry about me being simplistic in that regard. But that doesn't mean identifying them with politicians can't be funny, or that doing so is somehow a statement that the character is exactly like the politician. Also, I don't understand why people hate Nina.


LavenderMintRose wrote:


My idea of this is that the best comparison is one everyone from all sides can laugh at and agree with.


That's... not... going to happen. In an ideal world, maybe, but in the team-sports politics of the real world?


I am also not someone naive about this. I think this thread idea is interesting and amusing enough that people will enjoy it - and I think it's possible for it to direct people's energies to less... straightforward obnoxiousness.

Anyway, I don't agree that the "point" of Code Geass is that vengeance is wrong and immature and so forth; I don't think works of fiction are necessarily coherent enough that they have a "point" - or even if they are coherent enough, that assigning a point to them makes sense. I think it's primarily about the ethics and legitimacy of revolution, the vicissitudes of human life, and whether we can clean up the mess that is humanity in the first place. (It's also about us injecting ourselves as viewers into the various roles and personalities of the characters, but that's a different direction entirely.)

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Posted 7/30/17

auroraloose wrote:
Also, I don't understand why people hate Nina.


Thank youuuu~~~




I am also not someone naive about this. I think this thread idea is interesting and amusing enough that people will enjoy it - and I think it's possible for it to direct people's energies to less... straightforward obnoxiousness.

Anyway, I don't agree that the "point" of Code Geass is that vengeance is wrong and immature and so forth; I don't think works of fiction are necessarily coherent enough that they have a "point" - or even if they are coherent enough, that assigning a point to them makes sense. I think it's primarily about the ethics and legitimacy of revolution, the vicissitudes of human life, and whether we can clean up the mess that is humanity in the first place. (It's also about us injecting ourselves as viewers into the various roles and personalities of the characters, but that's a different direction entirely.)



(soooo off topic, so, sorry ^_^; )

Generally agree, but two points:

1. and I think you touched on this, that "coherent" isn't really the right word. "Coherent" = ~logically consistent, which, actually, the fact that it's so logically consistent, complex, and three-dimensional is why it can't be simplified into one point.

2. About the second part that I bolded - it's about these things, but these things are, sort of, the question, and "forgiveness and mercy" is, more or less, the answer that the story reaches to those questions. Again, yes, it's simplified, and there's a lot more to the story than just that, but the reason that I say it's the point is that it's the result, or end-point, or "lesson learned" (though that is very simplistic) in several characters' character arcs, particularly for Lelouch. I say this because in the story, for him and for others, anger and thirst for vengeance usually make the problems worse, and forgiveness and calm allow one to see the better solutions.

. . . . . . thank you for reminding me about a big part of why I love this series so much.
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Posted 7/30/17

LavenderMintRose wrote:


auroraloose wrote:
Also, I don't understand why people hate Nina.


Thank youuuu~~~




I am also not someone naive about this. I think this thread idea is interesting and amusing enough that people will enjoy it - and I think it's possible for it to direct people's energies to less... straightforward obnoxiousness.

Anyway, I don't agree that the "point" of Code Geass is that vengeance is wrong and immature and so forth; I don't think works of fiction are necessarily coherent enough that they have a "point" - or even if they are coherent enough, that assigning a point to them makes sense. I think it's primarily about the ethics and legitimacy of revolution, the vicissitudes of human life, and whether we can clean up the mess that is humanity in the first place. (It's also about us injecting ourselves as viewers into the various roles and personalities of the characters, but that's a different direction entirely.)



(soooo off topic, so, sorry ^_^; )

Generally agree, but two points:

1. and I think you touched on this, that "coherent" isn't really the right word. "Coherent" = ~logically consistent, which, actually, the fact that it's so logically consistent, complex, and three-dimensional is why it can't be simplified into one point.

2. About the second part that I bolded - it's about these things, but these things are, sort of, the question, and "forgiveness and mercy" is, more or less, the answer that the story reaches to those questions. Again, yes, it's simplified, and there's a lot more to the story than just that, but the reason that I say it's the point is that it's the result, or end-point, or "lesson learned" (though that is very simplistic) in several characters' character arcs, particularly for Lelouch. I say this because in the story, for him and for others, anger and thirst for vengeance usually make the problems worse, and forgiveness and calm allow one to see the better solutions.

. . . . . . thank you for reminding me about a big part of why I love this series so much.


No problem. I do wish people would actually join in the point of the thread, but talking about Code Geass itself is also enjoyable. Perhaps I shall change my avatar to Nina just to piss people off.

I'm not sure where you're getting forgiveness and mercy from. I don't think there's ever a point where the characters sit down and say, "Yeah, we should have just talked this out in the first place, and tried to understand each other." Japan was literally conquered by an oppressive empire. Indeed,



That's not forgiveness. Sure, Lelouch and others were enraged and motivated by vengeance, and the show presented that as bad; and Suzaku kind of forgave Lelouch for the horrible things that happened. But to put it as baldly as possible, Code Geass asks us to consider the morality of becoming terrorists to protect one's people and cause. And I don't think its answer is clear.

Anyway, I just came up with submission #2: Sean Spicer, as pre-cyborg Jeremiah Gottwald - get this - trying to explain Orange. Like, is Code Geass prophetic or something?



Like, Trump may talk about Spicer's "great ratings," and Scaramucci may "hope he goes on to make a tremendous amount of money." But I hope Sean becomes the first and classiest cyborg assassin ever to walk the earth.
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Posted 7/30/17

auroraloose wrote:


I'm not sure where you're getting forgiveness and mercy from. I don't think there's ever a point where the characters sit down and say, "Yeah, we should have just talked this out in the first place, and tried to understand each other." Japan was literally conquered by an oppressive empire. Indeed,



That's not forgiveness. Sure, Lelouch and others were enraged and motivated by vengeance, and the show presented that as bad; and Suzaku kind of forgave Lelouch for the horrible things that happened. But to put it as baldly as possible, Code Geass asks us to consider the morality of becoming terrorists to protect one's people and cause. And I don't think its answer is clear.



I'm mostly talking about the way that


This is something that a lot of people really hate about the show, they think all of those characters should have died. But I think that a big point of the show was Lelouch learning not to be that person. Not to be the person who would kill all of his enemies instead of letting them learn to be better, and be peaceful and happy, regardless of what they did.
Charles' whole thing - Britannia's whole thing, even before him - is to be ruthless, and that big displays of strength are the best way to do things. To crush your enemies before they have a chance to do anything. Lelouch lived the first ten years of his life surrounded by that, and even though by the start of the series something tells him it's not right, he can't entirely bring himself to leave it behind. C.C. pushes him further down that road, because she's even more steeped in it than he is, but in the end, he does overcome it, and he helps her do the same.
He has two reasons for doing everything he does - like those recap narration thingies say - revenge, which is focused on the past, and creating a peaceful world, which is focused on the future. Nunnally, Suzaku, their friends, are his reasons for doing everything. (ex. the "Happiness is like Glass" scene, the "sacrifice your queen" thing and the fact that that was what made the Geass break (i.e. that's what's most important to him), the fact that C.C.'s attitudes in stage13-14 push him more into being the sort of person he doesn't want to be, and the way in episode 15, he has to push past that)

. . . . ehhh I really just need to write a whole essay on this and just link to it, I'm sorry I'm not mentally "there" enough right now to write it out right now...

. . . . I had an "also" here but I don't remember what it was going to say, but it was something I was going to spoiler tag. Probably about "Miracle Birthday". That thing basically sums up the entire series is the most beautiful and perfect ways and I love it...
xxJing 
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Posted 7/30/17

auroraloose wrote:
Also, I don't understand why people hate Nina.


She is a mentally unstable racist.
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Politics is too complicated.
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