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Post Reply NETFLIX Licensing ANIMES / Anime WAR's 3
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Posted 8/4/17 , edited 8/4/17

TheAncientOne wrote:


DevinKuska wrote:

You cannot honestly believe that can you? Thats like saying its ok for a jeweler to sell conflict diamonds just because they didn't directly order the deaths.

Conflict diamonds are produced under conditions akin to slavery. Low paid animators are free to walk out the door any time, and I've seen no stories that contradict that fact.



No... conflict diamonds are produced under conditions akin to war and genocide.. where do you come up with slavery? They are sold to finance terrorism and inhumane acts of mass violence.
http://diamondfacts.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=128&Itemid=134&lang=en

If you think an animator can simply quit their job and move to another company you seem to misunderstand how business works in Japan. There can be stigma from quiting a job that could possible alienate you from any kind of work. To say nothing that these animators make their bosses sometimes fortunes. I understand the Anime world is feast or famine (Daisuki is a prime example). However paying animators a low salary and then expecting 18+hr days or be terminated... not sure how in your mind thats ok? Then again I don't understand how people shop at Walmart when the company knows for a fact their factories in china pay salve wages, have been busted by Chinese govt. for being sweat shops, and even dangerous work conditions. So perhaps I simply think your statement is uncaring, and thus my annoyance.
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Posted 8/4/17 , edited 8/6/17

DevinKuska wrote:

No... conflict diamonds are produced under conditions akin to war and genocide.. where do you come up with slavery? They are sold to finance terrorism and inhumane acts of mass violence.
http://diamondfacts.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=128&Itemid=134&lang=en

Slavery as in those mining them don't have a choice of whether to work or not.

You also seemed to miss the point that you were comparing a candle to bonfire.



If you think an animator can simply quit their job and move to another company you seem to misunderstand how business works in Japan. There can be stigma from quiting a job that could possible alienate you from any kind of work.

They most likely wouldn't be moving to simply another company, but another industry.

I also find it difficult to believe most going into the business at the current time would be ignorant of the probable conditions they would face.

The industry gets away with this because people are willing to put up with it. A shortage of labor would lead to change far more rapidly than any external pressure.

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28 / M / St.Louis
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Posted 8/4/17
lol the irony
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Posted 8/5/17
You can add Violet Evergarden to the Spring 2018 slate. While I don't mind Netflix's binge model (especially if it's only a couple of shows), that's now a lot of shows that they have gotten for a short time period. Enough that I contacted them to let them know that anime fans wanted to see them simulcast in the future. I suggest that if you have a Netflix account, you do the same. They were way more receptive than Amazon at least.
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Posted 8/6/17

gabuhaha wrote:

You can add Violet Evergarden to the Spring 2018 slate. While I don't mind Netflix's binge model (especially if it's only a couple of shows), that's now a lot of shows that they have gotten for a short time period. Enough that I contacted them to let them know that anime fans wanted to see them simulcast in the future. I suggest that if you have a Netflix account, you do the same. They were way more receptive than Amazon at least.


Thanks for adding / BTW Dont be surprised more get acquired

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Posted 8/6/17
Imo if some show goes to Netflix that is kinda cool coz at least they show most of them WORLDWIDE ahem ahem
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Posted 8/6/17
for those of us who do not have cable then what's so wrong with netlfix dubbing anime? or obtaining anything to be honest. after all, netflix and hulu did kill not just cable but also the ability to rent movies in stores. I stream a heck of a lot of stuff on the net, but sometimes watching something on netflix on a larger screen and not a tablet or cell is refreshing. I sure do wish I could get the net on my tv, that'd be sweet. of course I also have the laptop to stream at.
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Posted 8/6/17
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Posted 8/6/17 , edited 8/6/17

niotabunny wrote:

for those of us who do not have cable then what's so wrong with netlfix dubbing anime? or obtaining anything to be honest.


The problem isn't that they're acquiring anime and dubbing it. The problem is that they hog the license all to themselves and do nothing with it until after the shows are long over. It's not possible to watch these shows as they air unless you pirate them. So you could either watch these shows illegally or you could wait months later to watch them when the hype for these shows has died down. They're under the bizarre impression that anyone who isn't Japanese doesn't care about watching anime that's currently airing and that we only prefer to watch them when there are 5 or 10 dubs out at once. It makes no sense.

It's great that they're investing a lot into making new series. They have every right to do whatever they want with the shows they make. The same shouldn't apply to shows that are made by others and air regularly on television when there's no alternative for people outside of the country to watch alongside them.
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Posted 8/6/17
sounds like something similar with Funimation, once they get their paws on something it can get vicious. it's hard to find something online anymore regarding said anime. but that's the problem with the new age binge society, it'll probably be labeled in there with an addiction before too long. but you can watch them without pirating them, I do this all the time, and they don't acquire them all, the last anime I watched on netflix was little witch academia, that, after the first 13 (season 1) I went online and watched season 2 no problem. but that's how things work these days I suppose, people want to binge and not wait patiently for episode to episode like some prefer to or how it was back in "olden times". for me I get my "fix" however I can, online or netflix, mostly online but still.
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Posted 8/6/17 , edited 8/6/17
Netflix's currently limited amount of anime must be doing extremely well for them to be going all-in on anime like this. I love it. Keep it coming, Netflix!

I'm fine with waiting. Netflix's distribution model makes perfect sense to me. They didn't spend years weening viewers off of weekly episodes and making a binge watching culture just to throw that aside to please a bunch of hard-core anime fans.

"But they simulcast in Japan!" you say. Sure, but I heard binge watching never really took off there, not to mention the comparatively low amount of Japanese Netflix subscribers compared to the rest of the world. Simulcasting may work in the Japanese market and hard core fans may want it in all markets, but that would likely serve alienate casuals and other potential fans who have long since embraced the binge-ing way of watching shows.

They fact is. any anime on Netflix will reach more viewers than it would on Crunchyroll, Funimation, or Anime Strike. All of those services cater directly to people who've already deliberately sought out anime. Netflix on the other hand is introducing anime to people who don't really no anything about it. I've seen the Death Note anime recommended based on having watched Showtime's Dexter, etc. And when Netflix has over 100 million subscribers... that reach is something no anime streaming service can hope to compare against. Amazon Strike could but since it is behind two paywalls it has to be lumped in with Crunchyroll and Funi.

For all of the talk of community here, Netflix is the only one with the potential to grow this community. The other anime streaming services attract people that already know and like anime, many casuals and millions of potential fans are unaware of its existence. Netflix alone can keep on introducing anime to new viewers indefinitely.

The hard-core fans may end up pirating some shows, but that's not really that many people compared to the amount of Netflix subscribers
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Posted 8/6/17 , edited 8/15/17

LavenderMintRose wrote:

. . . . . . . . . . . . . how is this bad, though?

How is it bad for someone else to make an anime?

That just means there's more anime.

You people have no idea what business is. You think anyone who isn't from your otaku club is automatically evil. That's silly and childish.


The problem is not that Netflix is entering the anime industry but that they are offering an inferior service and forcing you to take that service in order to watch their shows legally (The same applies to Amazon). If Amazon released their episodes on time, had a good player, and didn't have a double paywall, everyone would love them being in the industry. If Netflix released episodes as they come out, then people would welcome them to the industry. The problem is that thy don't provide the services most anime fans expect. It makes it feel like they don't respect the anime community. Nobody likes to feel like they are insulted and valued less than others. The main problem, though, is that these companies (Amazon and Netflix) don't seem to understand how strong the illegal anime business is. They don't realize that by restricting the shows and providing services seem as inferior to watch the shows, many people just won't deal with it. They will watch the shows illegal (I am still considering watching Little Witch Academia illegally and I know several people who are watching shows from this season illegally because they can't get both).

To conclude, by Amazon and Netflix treating anime the way they are can and has caused a general feeling of disrespect from the companies, and genera encouragement to use illegal streaming.

By the way, having someone else make anime can be a bad thing. Since you know about economics, you must know what happens when a market becomes over flooded with products (the value of the product goes down, even though the time and effort might stay the same, causing all sorts of problems). Also, there are some studios that I would never trust to turn some of my favorite manga into anime. Sure, there may be more anime, but does quantity really make up for quality?

Also, I don't really have a problem with Netflix entering the anime industry. I just wished they posted the episodes as they came out.
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Posted 8/6/17
I'm glad Netflix is producing anime, because the small amount they currently have is laughable. Most of which you can watch on CR or Hulu. If more anime is made that would not exist otherwise, I count that as a plus. As for how they hold their currently airing licenses hostage util finished airing, I hate that. There are actual TV shows they have that are released on a weekly basis that I have seen while going through their app. I don't watch those, because I don't care for those since they aren't anime. But it shows they have the ability to do so, why they don't do that for anime is just stupid.

One reason I can think of is that they don't have skilled/quick enough Japanese to English Translators like CR does, who can release subs within the hour, not 6 months after the show is aired. How slow can Netflix be, which it takes 6 months to sub 12 episodes? If its just to appease binge watchers, they have a choice. If Netflix would release the episodes weekly, anime fans can watch them weekly, while binge watchers can choose to wait until the entire thing is released. If the binge watchers whine after watching one episode and want the entire thing then, that's on them. They knew what they were getting into. Doing it that way would appease both type of subscribers; binge watchers and anime fans that want their anime weekly.

As for Amazon and Anime Strike, they could have two options for it. One would be the way it is now and the other would be to have an option just for Anime Strike. Because if one already has Netflix and don't buy often or at all from amazon, they have no need or desire to pay for prime. Making Anime Strike also available standalone would be perfect. They would still make money, MORE so than now, since $5 is far more reasonable to pay than $16, if all you want from them is their anime. They get paid from the current model and would also reap more from anime fans.

As someone who pays for multiple streaming services a month: Netflix (4 screens HD)$15/month, Hulu (commercial free)$13/month, CR $7/month, Funi $6/month. That's $41 a month currently, paying $16 just for Anime Strike, even though I really want to watch their recent shows, isn't worth it. If they would make it also have a standalone price, I would not mind at all paying an extra $5, hell even if they bumped their price up to $7-$8 for the standalone price, that would still be ok for me. The price would then fall in line to around CR and Funi pricing. At the current way Amazon is doing it, I'm just going to wait until ALL episodes are aired, see if any news shows are held hostage by them, if so wait some more. Until there are no new ones I want to watch from them, pay their ridiculous price for one month and binge watch ALL of the shows I've put off. They are losing money that way, if you wait more then one season to do that. Which is what they deserve, gouging anime fans that way, when Prime used to be all you needed to watch most of their anime.

Looking forward to Netflix's releases since I have my eye on a few of their upcoming shows; Kagekurui, Fate, A.I.C.O and Cannon Busters. I hope they do well in their endeavors. They are doing more for anime fans then Amazon ever will at their current rate.
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Posted 8/6/17

Otaku_Maou wrote:

I'm glad Netflix is producing anime, because the small amount they currently have is laughable. Most of which you can watch on CR or Hulu. If more anime is made that would not exist otherwise, I count that as a plus. As for how they hold their currently airing licenses hostage util finished airing, I hate that. There are actual TV shows they have that are released on a weekly basis that I have seen while going through their app. I don't watch those, because I don't care for those since they aren't anime. But it shows they have the ability to do so, why they don't do that for anime is just stupid.

I look for Netflix to eventually have anime that is available only through them (even in Japan) and only released all at once. If that begins to happen, the complaints about not being able to watch weekly should go away (as those complaints center around not being able to discuss the episode with everyone else and/or being spoiled).

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Posted 8/6/17 , edited 8/6/17

niotabunny wrote:

sounds like something similar with Funimation, once they get their paws on something it can get vicious. it's hard to find something online anymore regarding said anime. but that's the problem with the new age binge society, it'll probably be labeled in there with an addiction before too long. but you can watch them without pirating them, I do this all the time, and they don't acquire them all, the last anime I watched on netflix was little witch academia, that, after the first 13 (season 1) I went online and watched season 2 no problem. but that's how things work these days I suppose, people want to binge and not wait patiently for episode to episode like some prefer to or how it was back in "olden times". for me I get my "fix" however I can, online or netflix, mostly online but still.


That's not the point. If someone wants to wait months for a show to finish so they binge watch it or watch the dub, no one is stopping them. Having Netflix simulcast a series doesn't conflict with someone's desire to binge watch something when it's done. And there's no divine force preventing people from discovering the series later and binge watching it. There's not a single logical reason why Netflix is refusing to simulcast. Especially when they already do so for some shows they have and they also do it for the anime they stream in Japan. They could easily gain even more subscribers and have them subscribe for longer periods of time if they would allow people to watch a series weekly as it's airing. Anyone who wants to wait for however long it'll take for the series to finish can still do so just as they have before. It makes absolutely no sense why Netflix is so stubborn and insistent on forcing the rest of the world to conform to their binge watch model when they give a certain small percent of their subscribers the ability to watch these same shows however they please and can profit even more if they did the same for every other country. Whoever the people making these decisions are seem to be completely out of touch with those who are willing to subscribe to online services for the purpose of watching anime.

It makes even less sense when you take into consideration that we've now reached a point where English dubs can air on television close to or at the same time as their original Japanese air dates thanks to Funimation, and that's not even counting all their other simuldubs available online. Forcing people to only be able to binge watch a completed show in subs once a dub is finished doesn't work a show that's already aired.


dsfjr1190 wrote:

Netflix's currently limited amount of anime must be doing extremely well for them to be going all-in on anime like this. I love it. Keep it coming, Netflix!

I'm fine with waiting. Netflix's distribution model makes perfect sense to me. They didn't spend years weening viewers off of weekly episodes and making a binge watching culture just to throw that aside to please a bunch of hard-core anime fans.

"But they simulcast in Japan!" you say. Sure, but I heard binge watching never really took off there, not to mention the comparatively low amount of Japanese Netflix subscribers compared to the rest of the world. Simulcasting may work in the Japanese market and hard core fans may want it in all markets, but that would likely serve alienate casuals and other potential fans who have long since embraced the binge-ing way of watching shows.

They fact is. any anime on Netflix will reach more viewers than it would on Crunchyroll, Funimation, or Anime Strike. All of those services cater directly to people who've already deliberately sought out anime. Netflix on the other hand is introducing anime to people who don't really no anything about it. I've seen the Death Note anime recommended based on having watched Showtime's Dexter, etc. And when Netflix has over 100 million subscribers... that reach is something no anime streaming service can hope to compare against. Amazon Strike could but since it is behind two paywalls it has to be lumped in with Crunchyroll and Funi.

For all of the talk of community here, Netflix is the only one with the potential to grow this community. The other anime streaming services attract people that already know and like anime, many casuals and millions of potential fans are unaware of its existence. Netflix alone can keep on introducing anime to new viewers indefinitely.

The hard-core fans may end up pirating some shows, but that's not really that many people compared to the amount of Netflix subscribers


I have never seen a single person say that Netflix should throw aside their binge watch model nor have I seen anyone villainize Netflix for trying to introduce more people to anime. The only complaint is that Netflix is refusing to adapt for the audience of the medium they're expanding into and they've been throwing this audience under the bus for the last 3 years, whether intentional or unintentional. You know what would be better than being able to binge watch a show you're excited for? Being able to watch it when it isn't yesterday's news and also having the option to binge watch it later if you really want. Netflix apparently doesn't think so. That's the issue here. It's not crazy to assume that people who watch anime weekly would also be subscribed to Netflix for other shows ranging from old anime to live action series to the latest Netflix original. I may not be subscribed to Netflix, but it's not uncommon for other weekly anime watchers to be subscribed. What Netflix is doing is catering to one demographic (those who don't watch much anime and happen to find a series that looks interesting) at the cost of neglecting the demographic that is actively seeking the shows they're keeping locked up in a vault.

Having 100 million subscribers doesn't mean that 100 million will be introduced to anime. Maybe a few million at most. Which would still be wonderful on it's own if it wasn't for everything I've mentioned in this post. There's no reason for Netflix to be doing this if they really are serious about helping the anime industry. It's like donating a million dollars to an orphanage and then beating up some orphans who haven't done anything. There's some serious cognitive dissonance going on within Netflix in regards to anime streaming. They act as if releasing an episode shortly after it airs is going to stop them from working on a dozen dubs that they plan on releasing months later despite the fact that they already have someone subbing Kakegurui and Fate/Apocrypha as we speak. They've even released a subbed trailer for Kakegurui, a series that will end in less than 2 months and that Netflix has no intention of releasing until some unknown date in 2018. Do you realize how stupid all of this sounds? Netflix's actions are entirely devoid of sound reasoning.
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