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Post Reply Favorite American Founding Father?
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Posted 8/10/17

Ranwolf wrote:

Can I choose the one who wasn't a racist slave owning hypocrite?.....Oh wait there aren't any.

It wasn't until the goddamn 20th century Americans had leaders worth admiring.


Nothing unique, for the times. I imagine that you don't care for all that many pre-20th century leaders, period.
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Posted 8/10/17 , edited 8/10/17
My favorite has to be Benjamin Franklin. This man was a genius.
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Posted 8/10/17 , edited 8/10/17

Cardamom_Ginger wrote:


Nothing unique, for the times. I imagine that you don't care for all that many pre-20th century leaders, period.


True, then again it's not my fault the human race took so long to produce leaders worth the confidence of their nations


HuastecoOtaku wrote:



William Whipple freed his slave because he believed that no man could fight for freedom and hold another in bondage


And yet he willing associated with a people and a nation that did. That's the worse kind of hypocrisy mate .


Jamming777 wrote:



Should never throw, he tried with the Declaration of Independence in1776, could not get it in the final draft over southern colonies objections.


But you're not denying the Alien and Sedition Acts though
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Posted 8/10/17

Ranwolf wrote:



Jamming777 wrote:



Should never throw, he tried with the Declaration of Independence in1776, could not get it in the final draft over southern colonies objections.


But you're not denying the Alien and Sedition Acts though


Adam's did not veto them but was not their author. The Sedition Act and the Alien Friends Act were allowed to expire under Jefferson in 1800 and 1801. The Alien Enemies Act, however, remains in effect as Sections 21–24 of Title 50 of the United States Code.
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Posted 8/10/17 , edited 8/10/17

HuastecoOtaku wrote:

I've always been an admirer of Thomas Jefferson because of his ideas on the separation of church and state.


He's good, but he wasn't Federalist like John Adams and Alexander Hamilton--
Jefferson would today be called "Leftwing", since he believed that the US would be a isolated Utopia that mediated everyone else's foreign wars but didn't fight any.

He also believed that America's biggest export industry would be its farming, and under individual states' rights, the country would be peaceful and agrarian, rather than industrial, which some of the northern folk in New England and the current capital of NYC believed.
The only reason Washington DC was built in a "Maryland swamp" (and closer to Virginia) was a tradeoff between Hamilton and Jefferson over funding to create the National Treasury versus keeping the capital in NYC.

John Adams was the united Federalist who believed that America should be its own strong country to trade with Britain on the world stage, but he was also shouted down when he thought "Mr. President" was just too informal for the great Gen. Washington, and the attempt for Congress to shut him up already basically created the "silent" role of the Vice President.
The idealistic division, plus Adams' frustration with Jefferson refusing to say a bad word about France's revolution, broke up the long friendship, and turned Adams v. Jefferson 1800 into the ugliest presidential election in history, counting GHWBush v. Dukakis and Trump v. HClinton.

(And gotta give some props to Ben Franklin--Yes, a horny old goat, but probably the most conscious of trying to create the individual brand image of the new American Identity in Europe's eyes, as a new country for real, while England and France were taking credit for the new science/philosophy Age of Enlightenment.)


Ranwolf wrote:


Jamming777 wrote:
John Adams never bought a slave and declined on principle to utilize slave labor, saying,
"I have, through my whole life, held the practice of slavery in such abhorrence, that I have
never owned a negro or any other slave."


I'd say that Alien and Sedition Acts of his was just as bad though.


New England Congregationalists weren't big on the whole "slavery" thing. Most of the northern states began as religious colonies with strong educational cities, and had moral and intellectual grounds against it, while the southern states began as farming states, and needed the labor.
Jefferson was the idealist who tried to sell Virginia on anti-slavery, but also had deep fears that his time away at Congress was letting the family farm sink into debt. Which is why he "hypocritically" waited to free his own slaves in his will, after he didn't have to worry about it anymore.
And Alexander Hamilton, as all good Broadway fans know, grew up ON a Caribbean slave plantation, and knew whereof he spoke.

The Alien & Sedition Acts weren't a good idea, but came out of some very nasty rhetoric coming from Napoleonic France over our refusal to support them against England (and get our butts kicked, not to mention losing an important ally). A spurned France was shouting for war--hence the suspicion of "traitorous" foreigners and "seditious" attacks on the presidency--while the Francophiles like Madison and Jefferson claimed it was our "duty" to help the center of culture.


Edit: I am also throwing in the fact he never bothered to outlaw the practice of slavery as well. Which makes him a hypocrite to.


Nobody up through the pre-Civil War wanted to outlaw slavery, because it was essentially stripping the entire economy of six states, including powerhouse Virginia and stubborn South Carolina. And even if you tried, good luck getting it through Congress.
Failed pre-Lincoln presidents like Millard Fillmore and James Buchanan tried to find "compromises" to keep it isolated to its existing states, or say "We don't like it, but we can't tell the South how to run their industries."

And Adams and Jefferson DID try to outlaw slavery, when Jefferson slipped a grievance about the slave trade into the Declaration of Independence, and the Carolinas nearly refused to sign it, which would have scuttled the whole vote. Resulting in more compromises.

(So many new things the Canadians can learn about their neighbors to the south! )
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Posted 8/10/17
Benjamin Franklin because of his inventions, specifically electricity.
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Posted 8/10/17
oh I don't know I've always been partial to Sitting Bull and Chief Joseph myself. http://peopleof.oureverydaylife.com/four-native-american-forefathers-6959.html
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