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Post Reply The 4th industrial revolution isn't going to be resolved like the previous three
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Posted 8/14/17 , edited 8/15/17
Machines are already taking white collar jobs in many fields. Jobs of some fub-level integrated circuit (silicon chip) layout designers are being displaced by PNR tools, and soon cell-level designers too. After that, circuit design engineers will be next...

All the talk about new jobs being created is bullshit. People are not just going to be shoveled en masse to the next level of abstraction in the process, and once the very top of the pyramids vanish then what? No more architects, design administrators so everyone gets to be CEOs?

No... executives like CEOs are not irreplaceable themselves. Arguably expert systems could be more competent at running corporations than quite a few of those overpaid pathological jackasses.

Hopefully I won't be around when the mass disruptions around massive unemployment happens. Some people expect the socioeconomic problems to magically vanish but I don't. The difference between this and the previous industrial revolutions is that this one reaches the very highest levels of abstraction; moving workers up the skill trees won't work anymore. The talk around retraining becomes empty.

"Most people just stop working and do what they want! Relax!" is a common quip.

Unfortunately it's not going to be that simple or peaceful. For some people today it's already not that simple.
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Posted 8/14/17 , edited 8/15/17
It is time to launch the era of gynophobic machines. Machines will d the thinking for you anyway. Thinking is work, after all, and humanity never needs to work. All hail gynophobic robotics!
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Posted 8/14/17 , edited 8/15/17
Dunno
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Posted 8/14/17 , edited 8/15/17
Meh until they build a decent combat bot my job is in no danger. As for white collar types, fuck 'em they always act so damn superior anyway. If a bot can deliver a better product for cheaper who cares if a few white collar types bite the dust.
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Posted 8/14/17 , edited 8/15/17
What if this one person owns everything on this planet and on the click of a button he could generate anything he needs while you do not have a job? I sort of have a discussion like this before, and my only reasonable conclusion is taxation that would eventually get the money from the industry to the government and to the people, forgot where the post it

Here : http://www.crunchyroll.com/forumtopic-995569/what-if-the-salary-is-commission-based

I don't mean to redirect this thread, but to provide more discussion
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Posted 8/14/17 , edited 8/15/17
There's not a point in having all those machines if people can't buy the stuff they make, so either we'll find new jobs or the system finally fully collapses (keep in mind we are already in a worldwide crises for this issue. There are A LOT of countries facing the same problems, with products and brands disappearing due to the fucked economy - though baby boomers insist it's the avocado toast's fault)

I like capitalism (honestly it's shit and I'm aware I only like it because I'm one of the people who isn't getting completely fucked by it), but I don't think it'll hold much longer. Probably I won't live see the new system though. It'll take time to come up with a good economical plan that can be applied globally, keeping capitalism advantages but solving it's problems.
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Posted 8/14/17 , edited 8/15/17

PumaConcolor wrote:

There's not a point in having all those machines if people can't buy the stuff they make, so either we'll find new jobs or the system finally fully collapses (keep in mind we are already in a worldwide crises for this issue. There are A LOT of countries facing the same problems, with products and brands disappearing due to the fucked economy - though baby boomers insist it's the avocado toast's fault)

I like capitalism (honestly it's shit and I'm aware I only like it because I'm one of the people who isn't getting completely fucked by it), but I don't think it'll hold much longer. Probably I won't live see the new system though. It'll take time to come up with a good economical plan that can be applied globally, keeping capitalism advantages but solving it's problems.


Right, but what if the person can also, at one click of the button gets any food or drink he needs, purchased lands, fully automated and self repair robots? Well, I also work for a company, but my wage is a bit on the low side being on the Eastern land
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Posted 8/14/17 , edited 8/15/17

PumaConcolor wrote:
Probably I won't live see the new system though. It'll take time to come up with a good economical plan that can be applied globally, keeping capitalism advantages but solving it's problems.


Social democracy my friend is what I believe you're looking for.
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Posted 8/14/17 , edited 8/15/17
I got a new plan. The money aura, pretty much even those who does not work get paid, and the aura strengthens as the company grows or as you become part of the company
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Posted 8/14/17 , edited 8/14/17
Like many have said: it will eventually reach a point of saturation.
If the consumer cannot purchase the goods that are being made through sheer automation, there isn't much purpose in keeping said automation going.
Although, I cannot say (with confidence) that there won't be any jobs even in this "automated world" that the OP is projecting.
Automated systems are not without failure, nor do I believe there will ever be a time that they'll be faultless.
This would mean that careers would likely become focused on social aspects (human-to-human interactions; such as law [police, lawyers, ...] or medical [doctors, psychiatrists, ...]) and STEM (science [chemists, biologists, ...], tech industry [repairs, upkeep, programming, ...], and so forth).

The unemployment will spike simply because people aren't trained or qualified to handle a drastic shift to the aforementioned fields.
There are so many people who are still surviving in the "blue collar" world of careers that will likely lose the vast majority of their positions once we automate their jobs as a whole.
These individuals would have to bank on their experience to become "consultants" for firms that are focusing around said automation - to confirm the fallacies and nuances of the job that an automated program or machine wouldn't naturally foresee without additional adjustments.
Of course, this would be a minute amount of positions as there wouldn't be that many companies focusing on automation of a specific field (say, construction).
I'd imagine this is where some engineers would shine for a brief period of time (20-50 years post-automated apocalypse).

It'll be resolved, one way or another.
Either the people will revolt or society will adjust.
There is no pleasure without pain.
As Emmanuel Joseph Sieyès had said about what he had done during the French Revolution, "J'ai vécu." (I survived.)
Posted 8/14/17 , edited 8/14/17

Cydoemus wrote:

Like many have said: it will eventually reach a point of saturation.
If the consumer cannot purchase the goods that are being made through sheer automation, there isn't much purpose in keeping said automation going.
Although, I cannot say (with confidence) that there won't be any jobs even in this "automated world" that the OP is projecting.
Automated systems are not without failure, nor do I believe there will ever be a time that they'll be faultless.
This would mean that careers would likely become focused on social aspects (human-to-human interactions; such as law [police, lawyers, ...] or medical [doctors, psychiatrists, ...]) and STEM (science [chemists, biologists, ...], tech industry [repairs, upkeep, programming, ...], and so forth).

The unemployment will spike simply because people aren't trained or qualified to handle a drastic shift to the aforementioned fields.
There are so many people who are still surviving in the "blue collar" world of careers that will likely lose the vast majority of their positions once we automate their jobs as a whole.
These individuals would have to bank on their experience to become "consultants" for firms that are focusing around said automation - to confirm the fallacies and nuances of the job that an automated program or machine wouldn't naturally foresee without additional adjustments.
Of course, this would be a minute amount of positions as there wouldn't be that many companies focusing on automation of a specific field (say, construction).
I'd imagine this is where some engineers would shine for a brief period of time (20-50 years post-automated apocalypse).

It'll be resolved, one way or another.
Either the people will revolt or society will adjust.
There is no pleasure without pain.
As Emmanuel Joseph Sieyès had said about what he had done during the French Revolution, "J'ai vécu." (I survived.)


was just about to say "
It'll be resolved, one way or another.
Either the people will revolt or society will adjust. "
^ that

But the way things are going, there will be a revolt. People are still fighting over race and think that jobs are gonna rain down if they protest enough.
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Posted 8/14/17 , edited 8/14/17

Online_ wrote:
was just about to say "
It'll be resolved, one way or another.
Either the people will revolt or society will adjust. "
^ that

But the way things are going, there will be a revolt. People are still fighting over race and think that jobs are gonna rain down if they protest enough.


Exactly.
People are too worked up in their own little worlds with expectations that jobs will magically populate if you bring back more blue collar jobs (oil, mining, etc...).
The unfortunate reality is that we're currently in a state where people have to accept that they either need to become qualified through education, experience, or both.
With academic degrees being as common as they are, they're still being utilized as the "foot in the door" piece of paper that many companies require even before bringing you in for an interview.
It'll likely be the blue collar and entry-level white collar jobs that are automated first. These are the easiest jobs to design automation around, especially with the progression of robotics in the last five years or so.

People will likely revolt against the inevitable.
Online, people complain about how we need to "stop the invasion of our jobs" and how machines are quickly taking over.
Once you discuss it further with them, you come to find out that they're underqualified to be in a mid-tier white collar position or they're on the heels of the automation revolution (fast food, department stores, etc...).
Those who lose their jobs first will be the ones that will be seen as "doomsayers".
Those who lose their jobs last will be the ones that get the "I told you so's".
Something between those two events will happen that may deter the second from ever happening, who knows?
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Posted 8/14/17 , edited 8/14/17
Probably about the same thing that will happen when those "doomsayers" point out that the 're-education' everyone else insists is all they need is beyond their fiscal horizon.
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Posted 8/14/17 , edited 8/14/17
Let's see, industrial revolution and human evolution are not flawed. But who is to say those in need of money aren't worth it?


Cydoemus wrote:


Online_ wrote:
was just about to say "
It'll be resolved, one way or another.
Either the people will revolt or society will adjust. "
^ that

But the way things are going, there will be a revolt. People are still fighting over race and think that jobs are gonna rain down if they protest enough.


Exactly.
People are too worked up in their own little worlds with expectations that jobs will magically populate if you bring back more blue collar jobs (oil, mining, etc...).
The unfortunate reality is that we're currently in a state where people have to accept that they either need to become qualified through education, experience, or both.
With academic degrees being as common as they are, they're still being utilized as the "foot in the door" piece of paper that many companies require even before bringing you in for an interview.
It'll likely be the blue collar and entry-level white collar jobs that are automated first. These are the easiest jobs to design automation around, especially with the progression of robotics in the last five years or so.

People will likely revolt against the inevitable.
Online, people complain about how we need to "stop the invasion of our jobs" and how machines are quickly taking over.
Once you discuss it further with them, you come to find out that they're underqualified to be in a mid-tier white collar position or they're on the heels of the automation revolution (fast food, department stores, etc...).
Those who lose their jobs first will be the ones that will be seen as "doomsayers".
Those who lose their jobs last will be the ones that get the "I told you so's".
Something between those two events will happen that may deter the second from ever happening, who knows?


Let's see, I graduated from University of California with a Bachelor of Science degree in computer Engineering. Not proud of my GPA 2.47, but I could probably still get into a programming job given enough training experience. Couldn't find a job during the depression around 2009, so I went back to Taiwan. My current job pays 1400 dollars a month as a software engineer. The people writes even better code than me in China, but they earn around the same or less than me.

The point is, this is only on the country contrast. I can probably get back to U.S and get myself a 50k annual job, but why is it that I can only earn 1400 dollars here in Taiwan. The corporation is just as big as the one in America I think. Should the people be even more qualified? Not necessarily. Some people are born into Taiwan and given a piece of land and that is what they have to work with. But that is not my worries. My worry is on the 1400 dollars a month job and when will I be able to retire without waking up 8:30am in the morning. If you say the machine is taking over the job I can sort of see where that is going, that this one person, who owns food, buy land to grow food, and sell food, could transition to different food and use machinery, to dominate the market, and take over the world's economy. Where will the rest of the people be left with? No jobs or low pay
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Posted 8/14/17 , edited 8/14/17
Time to get in line to get some soylent green.
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