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Post Reply The 4th industrial revolution isn't going to be resolved like the previous three
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Posted 8/16/17 , edited 8/16/17

nanikore2 wrote:


fredreload wrote:


spensaur wrote:

Personally, I think most things should be automated. It would give us humans more time to be creative and indulge in what we're supposed to do, creating art. More musicians, more dancers, more wood workers, more craftsmen, more art. I'm cool with that. Humans need to slow their roll and take it easy. Too many stressed out bozos out here worrying about being late to work, or their next appointment, rushing around everywhere without taking time to smell the roses. I mean honestly, I worked IT for 7 years and it's a brainless boring ass job that I would rather have a computer do instead of me anyways.

It's just my daydreamer opinion though.


I agree with you that most things should be automated, but the whole idea about machine taking over your job is that you would still want to get the money instead of being jobless. And that is what the whole argument is about. If the company is replacing you with a computer, you should still get paid. Same goes for the rest of us who's jobs been covered by a computer


The company would see no reason to pay someone who is not working.

I saw the thread regarding commissioned salary. The thing about that is, if there is no work, there is no commission either...


That is true, but if this one person can run the entire company, why would he pay anyone? And if his company is big enough to cover the entire world. What's the rest of the people gonna feed off of? My idea is taxation, that and eventually transfer the funds from government to people.


P.S How do you think the no one gets paid problem should be solved Nanikore?
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Posted 8/16/17 , edited 8/16/17

spensaur wrote:


fredreload wrote:


spensaur wrote:

Personally, I think most things should be automated. It would give us humans more time to be creative and indulge in what we're supposed to do, creating art. More musicians, more dancers, more wood workers, more craftsmen, more art. I'm cool with that. Humans need to slow their roll and take it easy. Too many stressed out bozos out here worrying about being late to work, or their next appointment, rushing around everywhere without taking time to smell the roses. I mean honestly, I worked IT for 7 years and it's a brainless boring ass job that I would rather have a computer do instead of me anyways.

It's just my daydreamer opinion though.


I agree with you that most things should be automated, but the whole idea about machine taking over your job is that you would still want to get the money instead of being jobless. And that is what the whole argument is about. If the company is replacing you with a computer, you should still get paid. Same goes for the rest of us who's jobs been covered by a computer. If you are the one who came up with the automated system, sure, but if you intend to sell it, the other people would also go out of job and result in you getting paid for their losses. Would you pay those people?


Well there in lies my daydreamer mindset. I don't believe in money, it's made out of thin air and holds no value. The value of money comes from debt, and when more money enters the market, it's value takes from the money already in the market. Just a big cycle of debt.


You mean it's like a giant cake and everyone cut a piece of the cake based on the money they own as a percentage distribution. You got a point there. Since the cake is fixed, when you get more cake, the other people would get less. Such an idea should be fixed on food as food being the cake itself, the rest goes for entertainment? So that everyone get equal distribution of the food and water, while entertainment and housing is a different cake or cakes
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Posted 8/16/17 , edited 8/16/17

spensaur wrote:

The rich buy expensive art. The poor make beautiful art. I don't see the problem. Not to mention, the rich are getting richer with the current situation anyways. Having a robot take my job frees me from the slavery.


Not everyone's an artist.

Isn't that the equivalent to telling everyone who is jobless nowadays to start painting?

For most people, having robots take away their jobs mean the end of their livelihoods.
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Posted 8/16/17 , edited 8/16/17

nanikore2 wrote:


spensaur wrote:

The rich buy expensive art. The poor make beautiful art. I don't see the problem. Not to mention, the rich are getting richer with the current situation anyways. Having a robot take my job frees me from the slavery.


Not everyone's an artist.

Isn't that the equivalent to telling everyone who is jobless nowadays to start painting?

For most people, having robots take away their jobs mean the end of their livelihoods.


Check out my cake theory lol, I think I am working out something here
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Posted 8/16/17 , edited 8/16/17

spensaur wrote:

Well there in lies my daydreamer mindset. I don't believe in money


It buys bread.

It puts something over your head at night.


fredreload wrote:


nanikore2 wrote:


spensaur wrote:

The rich buy expensive art. The poor make beautiful art. I don't see the problem. Not to mention, the rich are getting richer with the current situation anyways. Having a robot take my job frees me from the slavery.


Not everyone's an artist.

Isn't that the equivalent to telling everyone who is jobless nowadays to start painting?

For most people, having robots take away their jobs mean the end of their livelihoods.


Check out my cake theory lol, I think I am working out something here


You can state that here if it doesn't take more than 1000 words.
I still don't see how that gives money to people who don't work.
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Posted 8/16/17 , edited 8/16/17

nanikore2 wrote:


spensaur wrote:

Well there in lies my daydreamer mindset. I don't believe in money


It buys bread.

It puts something over your head at night.


fredreload wrote:


nanikore2 wrote:


spensaur wrote:

The rich buy expensive art. The poor make beautiful art. I don't see the problem. Not to mention, the rich are getting richer with the current situation anyways. Having a robot take my job frees me from the slavery.


Not everyone's an artist.

Isn't that the equivalent to telling everyone who is jobless nowadays to start painting?

For most people, having robots take away their jobs mean the end of their livelihoods.


Check out my cake theory lol, I think I am working out something here


You can state that here if it doesn't take more than 1000 words.


It's 4 posts above this post
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Posted 8/16/17 , edited 8/16/17

fredreload wrote:

It's 4 posts above this post


It doesn't say how someone is paid for doing no work.
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Posted 8/16/17 , edited 8/16/17

nanikore2 wrote:


spensaur wrote:

The rich buy expensive art. The poor make beautiful art. I don't see the problem. Not to mention, the rich are getting richer with the current situation anyways. Having a robot take my job frees me from the slavery.


Not everyone's an artist.

Isn't that the equivalent to telling everyone who is jobless nowadays to start painting?

For most people, having robots take away their jobs mean the end of their livelihoods.


Not everyone's an artist, because art is considered as a "low paying job" so people who dream of being artists, or dancers, or a potter, a musician, etc drop the dream and get a "job" to pay the bills. I also use art as an umbrella term. I see a lot of things as art, like gardening, or even cleaning can be an art. I hope you understand what I mean. I don't just strictly mean for everyone to go and draw pictures.


nanikore2 wrote:


spensaur wrote:

Well there in lies my daydreamer mindset. I don't believe in money


It buys bread.

It puts something over your head at night.


It does in this society, which is why I call myself a daydreamer. I would rather live in a society that has people who build houses because they LOVE to do so, not because it pays well. I can't count how many of the people I know chose their career based on the salary, not on their interest or love. I'm one of those people.
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Posted 8/16/17 , edited 8/16/17

nanikore2 wrote:


fredreload wrote:

It's 4 posts above this post


It doesn't say how someone is paid for doing no work.


If the owner of the food company can produce food fully automated everything just by himself, he could get paid in terms of housing. So he gets a really large house. His food is shared among all people wealthy or not as an equal distribution. This is not worrying about food taste good or bad, it's all equally distributed. Now the rest of the people would work to compete for housing and other matters.

Therefore, either the people work or not, they all get food, thanks to the automated system
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Posted 8/16/17 , edited 8/16/17

spensaur wrote:

Not everyone's an artist, because art is considered as a "low paying job" so people who dream of being artists, or dancers, or a potter, a musician, etc drop the dream and get a "job" to pay the bills.



............No.

Not everyone's an artist because not everyone has the level of talent required to be a professional artist.

Let's say that you tell me to start writing short stories and sell them.

Yes, I could, and I actually did in the past. But would they really sell?

............Nope.

Art isn't "a low paying job". It's a job that requires something that if you're not born with, you could not make money with.





nanikore2 wrote:


spensaur wrote:

Well there in lies my daydreamer mindset. I don't believe in money


It buys bread.

It puts something over your head at night.


It does in this society, which is why I call myself a daydreamer. I would rather live in a society that has people who build houses because they LOVE to do so, not because it pays well. I can't count how many of the people I know chose their career based on the salary, not on their interest or love. I'm one of those people.


I would rather living in a society that people would give me everything I want just because I'm so darn awesome.

But. Nope.
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Posted 8/16/17 , edited 8/16/17

nanikore2 wrote:


spensaur wrote:

Not everyone's an artist, because art is considered as a "low paying job" so people who dream of being artists, or dancers, or a potter, a musician, etc drop the dream and get a "job" to pay the bills.



............No.

Not everyone's an artist because not everyone has the level of talent required to be a professional artist.

Let's say that you tell me to start writing short stories and sell them.

Yes, I could, and I actually did in the past. But would they really sell?

............Nope.

Art isn't "a low paying job". It's a job that requires something that if you're not born with, you could not make money with.





nanikore2 wrote:


spensaur wrote:

Well there in lies my daydreamer mindset. I don't believe in money


It buys bread.

It puts something over your head at night.


It does in this society, which is why I call myself a daydreamer. I would rather live in a society that has people who build houses because they LOVE to do so, not because it pays well. I can't count how many of the people I know chose their career based on the salary, not on their interest or love. I'm one of those people.


I would rather living in a society that people would give me everything I want just because I'm so darn awesome.

But. Nope.

I can tell I irritated you, sorry for diverting the subject off topic. Continue on your path to solving getting paid by doing nothing.
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Posted 8/16/17 , edited 8/16/17

fredreload wrote:


nanikore2 wrote:


fredreload wrote:

It's 4 posts above this post


It doesn't say how someone is paid for doing no work.


If the owner of the food company can produce food fully automated everything just by himself, he could get paid in terms of housing. So he gets a really large house. His food is shared among all people wealthy or not as an equal distribution. This is not worrying about food taste good or bad, it's all equally distributed. Now the rest of the people would work to compete for housing and other matters.

Therefore, either the people work or not, they all get food, thanks to the automated system


You should think of this from the other direction.

I am the owner. I don't want to share anything with anyone else. Why should I?


spensaur wrote:

I can tell I irritated you, sorry for diverting the subject off topic. Continue on your path to solving getting paid by doing nothing.


Uh no. Can't you tell I'm having fun?

Thinking about things philosophically sometimes gets you paid, but mostly not. But it's fun.
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Posted 8/16/17 , edited 8/16/17

nanikore2 wrote:


fredreload wrote:


nanikore2 wrote:


fredreload wrote:

It's 4 posts above this post


It doesn't say how someone is paid for doing no work.


If the owner of the food company can produce food fully automated everything just by himself, he could get paid in terms of housing. So he gets a really large house. His food is shared among all people wealthy or not as an equal distribution. This is not worrying about food taste good or bad, it's all equally distributed. Now the rest of the people would work to compete for housing and other matters.

Therefore, either the people work or not, they all get food, thanks to the automated system


You should think of this from the other direction.

I am the owner. I don't want to share anything with anyone else. Why should I?


Yes, that is the current problem we are facing. Hmm, if you are the sole owner for food you could sell it as expensive as diamond or more, because people need food.

1. Enters the equal competitor, that sells the food for less price, you and him both sells the food until it becomes a really low price.

2. Enters the not so good competitor, the competitor gets crushed, the price of everything else raises along with the food, where the water is just as or even more expensive.

3. You own all food and water and the entire planet, you wouldn't share, everyone else starves to death .

This is how I see it, no offense
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Posted 8/16/17 , edited 8/16/17

fredreload wrote:


nanikore2 wrote:


fredreload wrote:

It's 4 posts above this post


It doesn't say how someone is paid for doing no work.


If the owner of the food company can produce food fully automated everything just by himself, he could get paid in terms of housing. So he gets a really large house. His food is shared among all people wealthy or not as an equal distribution. This is not worrying about food taste good or bad, it's all equally distributed. Now the rest of the people would work to compete for housing and other matters.

Therefore, either the people work or not, they all get food, thanks to the automated system


This idea, in a much more detailed manner, has been discussed and thought of by Jacques Fresco's Venus Project. He wanted to create a city that was self driving, literally. Skyscrapers that were green houses that automatically ran themselves through advanced hydroponics, essentially producing food on it's own. There was much more to his idea, you could read up on it if you're interested.
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Posted 8/16/17 , edited 8/16/17

fredreload wrote:


nanikore2 wrote:

You should think of this from the other direction.

I am the owner. I don't want to share anything with anyone else. Why should I?


Yes, that is the current problem we are facing. Hmm, if you are the sole owner for food you could sell it as expensive as diamond or more, because people need food.

1. Enters the equal competitor, that sells the food for less price, you and him both sells the food until it becomes a really low price.

2. Enters the not so good competitor, the competitor gets crushed, the price of everything else raises along with the food, where the water is just as or even more expensive.

3. You own all food and water and the entire planet, you wouldn't share, everyone else starves to death .

This is how I see it, no offense


(Almost-)paradoxically, when you remove the money... everything could get even worse.

I am the owner, I sell stuff or I could just don't sell because these automation provides what I need already.

The rest of the people that's out of this "loop" is going to be without means of survival unless they all go out and grow their own food. From scratch. With no money or anyone to sell stuff to them (like farming equipment) even if they do have money which is now worthless. Good luck for them.

Unfortunately, the owners would behave just like that. You can't count on people sharing. They might, if they feel like it.

Looking bleak.


P.S How do you think the no one gets paid problem should be solved Nanikore?


I just saw the above p.s.... Right now, I can't think of any solution. If it gets that way and you're not "an owner", you are screwed.
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