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The Charlottesville Riots
Posted 8/14/17 , edited 8/15/17

HateKillingCamels wrote:

so what is actually going on?


Antifa attack a right wing rally as they do, they illegally blocked roads and started attacking cars, ending in someone getting killed and several injured after a driver was spooked into a crowd by men chasing him with baseball bats and attacking his car.



Bonus, they've learned to make fire too



Posted 8/14/17 , edited 8/15/17

encrypted12345 wrote:

Wait, wait, wait.

I hate to derail a tiny bit, but people claimed that it was some racist general, not General Robert E. Lee. I'm not a Southerner (Lived in California for all of my life except being in the Philippines as a toddler), but if there was ONE person that was fighting for the sake of the Southerner's belief in state rights rather than the right to own slaves, it was General Robert E. Lee.

Anyways, there's a lot of weird aspects involved in the case like how fast the car was going and such. As of right now, I'm leaning towards "manslaughter caused by self-defense". With the current level of evidence, if I was in jury duty and he was accused of murder, I would say innocent especially with the standard of beyond reasonable doubt. Of course, more evidence may arise in the future.

Watch the video Rawratl posted. Watch the footage of that completely undamaged and unharmed vehicle plowing into the protesters. Watch at the end where Christopher Cantwell describe the exact same footage with a shit-eating smirk about someone striking the vehicle and it being self-defense.

There are times when the truth is "somewhere in the middle". This is not one of them. That was first-degree murder.

Amyas_Leigh wrote:


HateKillingCamels wrote:

so what is actually going on?


Antifa attack a right wing rally as they do, they illegally blocked roads and started attacking cars, ending in someone getting killed and several injured after a driver was spooked into a crowd by men chasing him with baseball bats and attacking his car.



Bonus, they've learned to make fire too




You too. You watch that video and tell me this is all antifa's fault. You look at that crowd comprised of local citizens and tell me it's all antifa picking on precious, innocent, armed-to-the-teeth nazis.
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Posted 8/14/17 , edited 8/15/17

Mishio1 wrote:


21stCenturyGemini wrote:

And here's an interesting tidbit:

Apparently another neo-nazi nationalist was outed by the press, and his own father has chosen to disown him:


Ugh. I'm having mixed feelings about the use of social media and such to out the neo-nazis. On one hand, Nazis suck. On the other hand, similar tactics have been used in the past to socially attack members of unions, civil rights groups, etc. Not something I'm all that comfortable with.


That's one argument.

But imagine if tomorrow decided that you were going to pick up an ISIS flag, and start marching down the street out in public and waving it people's faces.

People are going to be taking pictures. So what do you expect to happen?

It's the type of risk you take when you go out and do what these people did. They were marching around chanting 1930s era nazi germany slogans. Are they expected privacy while they're going around the streets bringing up glory day imagery of genocide?

We have freedom of speech, yes. But we don't have freedom from consequences.

If you wake up in the morning and want to make a statement putting your face out in public as a nazi, then it's going to be out there.
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Posted 8/14/17 , edited 8/15/17

Amyas_Leigh wrote:

after a driver was spooked into a crowd by men chasing him with baseball bats

Can't tell if troll or willfully retarded.

Either way, it was funny.
Posted 8/14/17 , edited 8/15/17

21stCenturyGemini wrote:



But we don't have freedom from consequences.

.


Like the consequences of illegally blocking a road with weapons?
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Posted 8/14/17 , edited 8/15/17

Amyas_Leigh wrote:


HateKillingCamels wrote:

so what is actually going on?


Antifa attack a right wing rally as they do, they illegally blocked roads and started attacking cars, ending in someone getting killed and several injured after a driver was spooked into a crowd by men chasing him with baseball bats and attacking his car.




Gonna remember that little nugget of revisionist history next time I hear you talk about islamic terrorism. Guess the horseshoe ain't as comfy on the other foot, eh Boxer?
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Posted 8/14/17 , edited 8/15/17
I don't even see why it even matters to take down Robert E. Lee statue.

So do we take down the statues of generals that committed mass genocide to the Native Americans? Do we take down all the founding fathers that had slaves? How far do we take down every statue of past Americans that offended someone?
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Posted 8/14/17 , edited 8/15/17

riverjustice wrote:

I don't even see why it even matters to take down Robert E. Lee statue.

Because people have nothing better to do than be offended at history it seems.
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Posted 8/14/17 , edited 8/15/17

riverjustice wrote:

I don't even see why it even matters to take down Robert E. Lee statue.

So do we take down the statues of generals that committed mass genocide to the Native Americans? Do we take down all the founding fathers that had slaves? How far do we take down every statue of past Americans that offended someone?


You do realise that most of those other guys were notable for things other than fighting to keep minorities as second class citizens, right? Because if you do, you should already know why the two are different.
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Posted 8/14/17 , edited 8/15/17

Blondiefesser wrote:


riverjustice wrote:

I don't even see why it even matters to take down Robert E. Lee statue.

So do we take down the statues of generals that committed mass genocide to the Native Americans? Do we take down all the founding fathers that had slaves? How far do we take down every statue of past Americans that offended someone?


Take them all down


You're right we should also get rid of the constitution and the declaration of independence since they were created by slave owners.
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Posted 8/14/17 , edited 8/15/17

octorockandroll wrote:


riverjustice wrote:

I don't even see why it even matters to take down Robert E. Lee statue.

So do we take down the statues of generals that committed mass genocide to the Native Americans? Do we take down all the founding fathers that had slaves? How far do we take down every statue of past Americans that offended someone?


You do realise that most of those other guys were notable for things other than fighting to keep minorities as second class citizens, right?


You still didn't answer the question.
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Posted 8/14/17 , edited 8/15/17

21stCenturyGemini wrote:

But more importantly, you're talking about the 'Southerner's beliefs'.

The belief was literally owning human beings, and holding them in slavery for all their lives. In addition, the southern states separated because they wanted to spread slavery to the western states.

And it was not about 'states rights' because the confederacy forbid any of their states from abolishing slavery. So if you were part of the confederacy you didn't even have the right to abolish slavery if that was your choice.

So essentially the confederate monuments are in effect celebrating a legacy of human bondage, and American concentration camps.

There is nothing noble about the heritage of traitors who tried to tear apart the United States for one of the worst possible causes known to humanity.


Note that I emphasized belief in state rights. As a minority, I'm grateful the Union won. Slavery is definitely deplorable. However, the issue of how much power the federal government should control over its states is a more controversial issue. Abraham Lincoln, for all of the good things he did, was a very forceful president.

Early on, the Civil War wasn't about slavery as Abraham Lincoln promised a few border states that supported the Union that they could keep their slaves. Even the Emancipation Proclamation only technically applied to slaves in the Confederacy, not the Union. It was only after the war that the 13th amendment was actually made.
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Posted 8/14/17 , edited 8/15/17

riverjustice wrote:


octorockandroll wrote:


riverjustice wrote:

I don't even see why it even matters to take down Robert E. Lee statue.

So do we take down the statues of generals that committed mass genocide to the Native Americans? Do we take down all the founding fathers that had slaves? How far do we take down every statue of past Americans that offended someone?


You do realise that most of those other guys were notable for things other than fighting to keep minorities as second class citizens, right?


You still didn't answer the question.


I underlined how Lee was notable only for fighting against civil rights while the others you mentioned may have done similarly shitty things, but were notable for other reasons. What part of that is not a clear answer to you? Nobody celebrates the founding fathers for killing aboriginals or owning slaves, they do so for founding the country they currently live in. To compare people doing that in spite of the shitty shit those people did to opposing the celebration of someone who is celebrated for his shitty shit is a false equivalence.
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