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The Charlottesville Riots
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Posted 8/14/17 , edited 8/15/17
Couldn't even get through a few pages of this thread before finding some people equating Abraham Lincoln to General Lee.
http://www.npr.org/2010/10/11/130489804/lincolns-evolving-thoughts-on-slavery-and-freedom

First off, please learn ACTUAL history. Lincoln never owned slaves. Yes, he originally did believe freed slaves should be sent back to Africa, you know, the land they were forcefully removed from. However, by the time he drafted the Emancipation Proclamation he had completely abandoned the idea, and put into law that they were freed PERIOD.

For those talking about how Lee was against slavery... try reading up on the man.
http://www.history.com/news/how-the-cult-of-robert-e-lee-was-born

If you want to close your eyes, cover your ears, and deny reality, then so be it.
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Posted 8/14/17 , edited 8/15/17

MadBovine wrote:

Couldn't even get through a few pages of this thread before finding some people equating Abraham Lincoln to General Lee.
http://www.npr.org/2010/10/11/130489804/lincolns-evolving-thoughts-on-slavery-and-freedom

First off, please learn ACTUAL history. Lincoln never owned slaves. Yes, he originally did believe freed slaves should be sent back to Africa, you know, the land they were forcefully removed from. However, by the time he drafted the Emancipation Proclamation he had completely abandoned the idea, and put into law that they were freed PERIOD.

For those talking about how Lee was against slavery... try reading up on the man.
http://www.history.com/news/how-the-cult-of-robert-e-lee-was-born

If you want to close your eyes, cover your ears, and deny reality, then so be it.


I think you are referring to me. Lincoln wanted to deport blacks after the civil war. He said that the U.S. should be a homogeneous nation. Agree or disagree you can look up this thread and find the links that I have provided. Or you can do your research of Lincoln's racism even after the war. Up to you how deep you want to go.
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Posted 8/14/17 , edited 8/15/17
If you check the first link I posted, Lincoln wanted to return blacks to Africa as they were freed, but that was many years before the Civil War. BTW what do you mean his racism after the war? I'm seriously curious about that part.
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Posted 8/14/17 , edited 8/15/17

MadBovine wrote:

First off, please learn ACTUAL history. Lincoln never owned slaves. Yes, he originally did believe freed slaves should be sent back to Africa, you know, the land they were forcefully removed from. However, by the time he drafted the Emancipation Proclamation he had completely abandoned the idea, and put into law that they were freed PERIOD.



"I will say then that I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races, that I am not nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of negros, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people; and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which I believe will forever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and political equality. And inasmuch as they cannot so live, while they do remain together there must be the position of superior and inferior, and I as much as any other man am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race."


"Our republican system was meant for a homogeneous people, as long as the Negroes continued to live with the whites they would constitute a threat to the national life. Family life might also collapse, and the increase of the mixed breed bastards might some day challenge the supremacy of the white man."


"There is a natural disgust in the minds of nearly all white people, to the idea of an indiscriminate amalgamation of the white and black races"


Try again, pumpkin.
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Posted 8/14/17 , edited 8/15/17
Blindly attributing quotes to someone doesn't make them true. Got any facts to back up those quotes supposedly from Lincoln?
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Posted 8/14/17 , edited 8/15/17

MadBovine wrote:

Blindly attributing quotes to someone doesn't make them true. Got any facts to back up those quotes supposedly from Lincoln?


It's under Lincolns quarterly as president. Type in one of those quotes in google and you can read the source material for yourselves.
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Posted 8/14/17 , edited 8/15/17

MadBovine wrote:

Blindly attributing quotes to someone doesn't make them true. Got any facts to back up those quotes supposedly from Lincoln?

Actual history is hard, isn't it?

http://www.bartleby.com/251/41.html

http://quod.lib.umich.edu/a/alajournals/0599998.0006.003?view=text&seq=40

http://teachingamericanhistory.org/library/document/speech-on-the-dred-scott-decision/
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Posted 8/14/17 , edited 8/15/17
Ok found the specific papers to which you cherry picked quotes out of context. I'll simply post the context for the final part, as it is the easiest.

There is a natural disgust in the minds of nearly all white people, to the idea of an indiscriminate amalgamation of the white and black races; and Judge Douglas evidently is basing his chief hope, upon the chances of being able to appropriate the benefit of this disgust to himself. If he can, by much drumming and repeating, fasten the odium of that idea upon his adversaries, he thinks he can struggle through the storm. He therefore clings to this hope, as a drowning man to the last plank. He makes an occasion for lugging it in from the opposition to the Dred Scott decision. He finds the Republicans insisting that the Declaration of Independence includes ALL men, black as well as white; and forth-with he boldly denies that it includes negroes at all, and proceeds to argue gravely that all who contend it does, do so only because they want to vote, and eat, and sleep, and marry with negroes! He will have it that they cannot be consistent else. Now I protest against that counterfeit logic which concludes that, because I do not want a black woman for a slave I must necessarily want her for a wife. I need not have her for either, I can just leave her alone.

Oh jeez, looks like he was talking about the mindset of racists, and not himself. As with quotes in general, context is everything.
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Posted 8/14/17 , edited 8/15/17

XxDarkSasuxX wrote:


MadBovine wrote:

First off, please learn ACTUAL history. Lincoln never owned slaves. Yes, he originally did believe freed slaves should be sent back to Africa, you know, the land they were forcefully removed from. However, by the time he drafted the Emancipation Proclamation he had completely abandoned the idea, and put into law that they were freed PERIOD.



"I will say then that I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races, that I am not nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of negros, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people; and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which I believe will forever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and political equality. And inasmuch as they cannot so live, while they do remain together there must be the position of superior and inferior, and I as much as any other man am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race."


"Our republican system was meant for a homogeneous people, as long as the Negroes continued to live with the whites they would constitute a threat to the national life. Family life might also collapse, and the increase of the mixed breed bastards might some day challenge the supremacy of the white man."


"There is a natural disgust in the minds of nearly all white people, to the idea of an indiscriminate amalgamation of the white and black races"


Try again, pumpkin.


I am not the smartest person here, but it appears one of the quotes is said by "Reverend James Mitchell of Indiana"? I might be mistaken, and would not be surprised if Lincoln did it to cripple the Southern economy.



172 ABRAHAM LINCOLN QUARTERLY wrote the president urging colonization at Chiriqui, and pointing out that a contract with a private company would provide the easiest and quickest means of beginning such a project because no treaty or additional legislation of any kind would be necessary.33 On May 15, 1862, the Reverend James Mitchell of Indiana., later appointed Commissioner of Emigration, presented Lincoln with additional reasons why the Negroes should be colonized. Our republican system was meant for a homogeneous people, he declared; as long as the Negroes continued to live with the whites they would constitute a threat to the national life. Family life might also collapse and the increase of "the mixed breed bastards," might some day challenge the supremacy of the white man. Mitchell recommended the gradual colonization of the Negroes in Central America and Mexico. That region had once known a great empire and could become one again. This continent could then be divided between a race of mixed bloods and the Anglo-American.34 The colonization issue was permitted to lapse until July when Lincoln, seeking to ease the pressure for outright emancipation, appealed to the border state congressmen to agree to a scheme of compensated emancipation. He pointed out that it offered a chance to sell slaves to the government and not run the risk of losing their full value later. In order to quiet the fear of too many freedmen in their midst, Lincoln again urged colonization as the solution. "Room in South America for colonization can be obtained cheaply, and in abundance; and when numbers shall be large enough to be company and encouragement for one another, the freed people will not be so reluctant to go." 35 13 Caleb B. Smith to Abraham Lincoln, May 16, 1862. Ibid., pp. 10- 11. "~James Mitchell to Abraham Lincoln, May 18, 1862. Lincoln Papers. Vol. 76, f. 16044. 35 Abraham Lincoln to Congress, July 12, 1862. Ibid.., Vol. 8o, f. 17004-17009.


Please forgive me if I am wrong.
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Posted 8/14/17 , edited 8/15/17
You aren't PV, people like to cherry pick quotes, use them out of context, whatever helps them prove the point that they are right and others are wrong, regardless of what the quote originally meant.
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Posted 8/14/17 , edited 8/15/17

PeripheralVisionary wrote:

I am not the smartest person here, but it appears one of the quotes is said by "Reverend James Mitchell of Indiana"? I might be mistaken, and would not be surprised if Lincoln did it to cripple the Southern economy.

Oop. You are right. My mistake.

That is my mistake for not double checking my memory of such an old topic.


MadBovine wrote:

You aren't PV, people like to cherry pick quotes, use them out of context, whatever helps them prove the point that they are right and others are wrong, regardless of what the quote originally meant.

It's all right. I learned actual history when I had to read a few of these passages for a project. Maybe, one day, you will decide to do the same, and you will no longer view "Honest Abe" in rose-tinted spectacles.
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Posted 8/14/17 , edited 8/15/17

MadBovine wrote:

You aren't PV, people like to cherry pick quotes, use them out of context, whatever helps them prove the point that they are right and others are wrong, regardless of what the quote originally meant.

Lincoln actually agrees with congress for deporting them back. Because of said statements. I suggest reading the source material.

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Posted 8/14/17 , edited 8/15/17
All this over the Robert E. Lee Statue? I felt the right has gotten much more vitriolic, and in a way, it seems weird when a conservative pundit (or several) was afraid of actual racist groups merging with the more moderate conservatives. I was doubtful it would be all that physical a merge, but one of social confusion online, but this seems disconcerting, if the facts I have been told hold true.

Absolutely terrifying. Several of my friends go to the University of Virginia as well.
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Posted 8/14/17 , edited 8/15/17

PeripheralVisionary wrote:

All this over the Robert E. Lee Statue? I felt the right has gotten much more vitriolic, and in a way, it seems weird when a conservative pundit (or several) was afraid of actual racist groups merging with the more moderate conservatives. I was doubtful it would be all that physical a merge, but one of social confusion online, but this seems disconcerting, if the facts I have been told hold true.

Absolutely terrifying. Several of my friends go to the University of Virginia as well.


No one wants to be identified with any groups. My close friends are classical liberals but hate antifa and SJW. They hate they are distorting the left's image. So I can understand the conservative fear.
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Posted 8/14/17 , edited 8/15/17

riverjustice wrote:


MadBovine wrote:

You aren't PV, people like to cherry pick quotes, use them out of context, whatever helps them prove the point that they are right and others are wrong, regardless of what the quote originally meant.

Lincoln actually agrees with congress for deporting them back. Because of said statements. I suggest reading the source material.



And what part of returning people who have been kidnapped from their homes is racist?
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