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Post Reply A Conservative's Criticism of the President
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Posted 8/17/17 , edited 8/17/17

dougeprofile wrote:
You mean you want him to resign ...the media and the left desperately are drooling at the mouth for him to resign - but that isn't and shouldn't happen. The media also behaved shamefully and disgracefully ...and Trump foolishly went beyond his prepared statement. I still have some hope Trump will stop giving you people's what you want.


No, I mean he should resign. Its quite clear he is in over his head. His administration is a revolving door of chaos. He has countless positions still unfilled throughout various parts of his government. And that's not the Democrats fault. He hasn't appointed anyone to begin with for anyone to confirm. He's left the government in a barely functional state. The State Department especially and when you're dealing with shit like nuclear brinkmanship you really, really want a functional State Department.

He is not going to get better. This is who he is and he will continue to drag America down both at home and abroad.



MysticGon wrote:
Pretty much. Half the country is okay so far. The tougher talk with adversaries, the withdrawal from TPP/Paris, Mexico City and buckling down on imbalanced trade. Of course best of all the Supreme Court which become evident this Fall. But the fighting distracts and slows him down.


Again, it's less than half. -.-

His tough talk with adversaries has been random, chaotic and empty. Withdrawing from TPP was a global disgrace and also pretty pointless given that TPP goals are voluntarily set. He has not buckled down on anything as he has yet to pass a single piece of major legislation. Nevermind trade legislation. Yes, he got a Supreme Court pick but that was thanks to the GOP ignoring the Constitution for several months. Not anything Trump did.

Fighting and embarrassing both himself and America as a whole is essentially all he's really accomplished.

Well, that and defending Nazis.
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Posted 8/17/17 , edited 8/17/17

foraslan wrote:

Lastly, this bit about "repeal and replace the ACA" is pretty meaningless for myself and a lot of other conservatives. It is the premise that we disagree with. The government shouldn't be an insurance provider (or a lot of other things, for that matter). So I'm honestly not too worried about that. For that matter, I don't really care about The Wall®. But hey, if they think they can come up with something better, go for it, I guess. Just don't talk about it forever without doing anything.



I absolutely agree with what you say about the ACA. The government shouldn't force people to subsidize other people's healthcare, or car insurance for that matter, because it's essential stealing. Using private insurance was a mistake. Public charities pick up most of the slack in making healthcare affordable, so statistically speaking if we want affordable care, donate to charities that support what you want to happen.

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Posted 8/17/17 , edited 8/17/17
so when trump does a bad job as president its congresses job, when you all claim Obama did it its, his fault?
Oh and whats gonna happen if trump does turn it around, then its a good job on his part not congress?
Highly doubt he will tbh cant wait for impeachment
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Posted 8/17/17 , edited 8/17/17
Love what you said man and I can't agree with you more. In fact I think you should send this directly to him or his team if you haven't already. But let me go ahead and make one thing perfectly clear: DONALD TRUMP DID NOT DEFEND NAZIS. Here is the exact quote from his first press conference

We condemn in the strongest possible terms this egregious display of hatred, bigotry, and violence on many sides
which is precisely what he should have said because there was violence on both sides.
Here is footage from infowars of Antifa attacking people https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxECY1PXjiM here is footage from Richmond of a cameraman getting attacked by Antifa and sent to the hospital https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vkqccnXGHZE and here is Baked Alaska who was pepper sprayed and will have permanent eye damage https://twitter.com/bakedalaska/status/896831632564510721 . This is not okay and the president was right in condemning the violence. When Nazis and Communists fight in the streets it is the leader of a liberal, Western nation's duty to condemn them both because both of the ideologies are completely contrary to Western, liberal values and have ALWAYS resulted in oppressive dictatorships where the rights of the individual is ignored for the rights of the collective. So quit saying that he defended Nazis, HE DIDN'T HE CONDEMNED THEM.
But anyways the man isn't perfect and he needs to be criticized on the points that actually matter.
Dialogue, not violence, is how we Make America Great Again.
Peace.
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Posted 8/17/17 , edited 8/17/17
lol trumps not good with money tho, hes literally been kicked off his own boards of directors just because of the way he runs it.
Had to sell his own shares even lmao
how many successful trump brands are there?
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Posted 8/17/17 , edited 8/17/17

cant wait for impeachment

And what charges should be brought against him might I ask? Assuming you know what impeachment means.
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Posted 8/17/17 , edited 8/17/17

gwargan wrote:

The super fun part of all this nonsense, for me as a conservative at least, Is that the press conference on Charlottesville needed to have one thing happen: Denounce the support of the Alt-Right.. That's it.

That didn't happen.

Yes you can thank Antifa or whatever groups that came in and incited the first bit of violence as far as what's been covered by the media on both sides, which is a huge joke as far as the facts are concerned, but the main fact is that the ideology of the Alt-Right is disgusting.

The marchers at least, not the randos that just post memes. Are they assholes? Absolutely. But they may have just been caught up in this sick fad. Conjecture, obviously.

Trump screwed up royally by not denouncing and condemning the support of the Alt-Right. The white supremacy address only covers the supremacists we know that are evil and obviously have something to do with this group, but name-dropping them wasn't enough. Alt-right support is what he should have denounced.

Both sides of this skirmish are to blame: one for using violence against a peaceful and law-abiding march, albeit evil and scummy in nature,, and those who marched for an evil ideology.The second it became violent is when it should have been shut down.


So he should be more forceful with his condemnations and create greater distance between him and the alt right. How do you suggest he do that? What would you say to him if he hired you as an adviser?



On a side note... Reading all the responses, it's an interesting mix of "he's doing fine", "shut up and get to work" and your typical liberal banter. So far so good.
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Posted 8/17/17 , edited 8/17/17

PumpkinHat wrote:


Dialogue, not violence, is how we Make America Great Again.
Peace.


I agree with you my dude. I wish that colleges wouldn't shut down speaking events and such because it stifles productive dialogue and thinking under the pretense that thoughts and idea different from their own are offensive and damaging.

But Trumpski didn't do what needed to do, and that was publicly denounce the Alt-Right endorsements of him, because in name the Alt-right have a much bigger following than the Klan. There was no doubt hatred and racial bigotry, but we aren't dealing with the Klan in name. It's the Alt-Right.

Not doing this has legitimized the white supremacists and has given the left media and radical left more ammunition, and made those white people that feel victimized by the current social structure feel more inclined to side with the Alt-Right. Especially when the violence was initiated by the protesters to that march.

These people aren't driven by rational dialogue, but by radical hatred and bias from both sides of the aisle.

It's a sad, outrageous thing, to be sure.



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Posted 8/17/17 , edited 8/17/17

But Trumpski didn't do what needed to do, and that was publicly denounce the Alt-Right endorsements of him,

Thanks for pointing this out. Wasn't thinking about that. The only thing I felt like he needed to do was condemn violence , but your right, he totally does need to condemn the alt-right. He might just be thinking that he will keep their support through 2020 and denounce them after reelection but that is the wrong move (ethically at least, perhaps not tactically). What I am getting worked up about is the media incessantly comparing him to Nazis and KKK because he didn't "specifically" (which I choose to interpret as only) condemn the white supremacists. As you pointed out Antifa started the violence. The Nazis were there to exercise their first amendment rights. Perhaps you could argue that they knew that Antifa would come and get violent, but a violent mob's actions aren't an excuse to curtail freedom.
P.S. I feel obliged to mention that I am a center-left libertarian liberal and so I can totally get behind the idea of a single-payer healthcare system as mentioned earlier in the thread. In fact I voted Bernie Sanders in the primary.
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Posted 8/17/17 , edited 8/17/17

MysticGon wrote:


gwargan wrote:

The super fun part of all this nonsense, for me as a conservative at least, Is that the press conference on Charlottesville needed to have one thing happen: Denounce the support of the Alt-Right.. That's it.

That didn't happen.

Yes you can thank Antifa or whatever groups that came in and incited the first bit of violence as far as what's been covered by the media on both sides, which is a huge joke as far as the facts are concerned, but the main fact is that the ideology of the Alt-Right is disgusting.

The marchers at least, not the randos that just post memes. Are they assholes? Absolutely. But they may have just been caught up in this sick fad. Conjecture, obviously.

Trump screwed up royally by not denouncing and condemning the support of the Alt-Right. The white supremacy address only covers the supremacists we know that are evil and obviously have something to do with this group, but name-dropping them wasn't enough. Alt-right support is what he should have denounced.

Both sides of this skirmish are to blame: one for using violence against a peaceful and law-abiding march, albeit evil and scummy in nature,, and those who marched for an evil ideology.The second it became violent is when it should have been shut down.


So he should be more forceful with his condemnations and create greater distance between him and the alt right. How do you suggest he do that? What would you say to him if he hired you as an adviser?



On a side note... Reading all the responses, it's an interesting mix of "he's doing fine", "shut up and get to work" and your typical liberal banter. So far so good.


Well, If I had his ear, I would say that he fire Steve Bannon because this directly connects him to the Alt-Right movement, and condones their motives. He also said that Breitbart media is a safe place for them to share ideas and thoughts, while this is completely legal, still connects Trump to the Alt-Right. Trump challenged a reporter on the motivation and definition of the Alt-right without giving his definition, though his connection with Bannon a his chief strategist suggests that Trump of course know what it is and what they stand for.

Like I said, not all of the Alt-Right is truly fascist, as most of their following lives for triggering leftists and posting memes, but the little that are caused a major scene. While that was legal as well, its was engaged with violence due to the ideology of that march.

Condemning the group that endorses him after they caused a murder and saluting like Nazis and saying that he is their motivation; he should have put on the table that the Alt-right have no respect and no association from or with him, and he wants nothing to do with them.
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Posted 8/17/17 , edited 8/17/17

PumpkinHat wrote:
Love what you said man and I can't agree with you more. In fact I think you should send this directly to him or his team if you haven't already. But let me go ahead and make one thing perfectly clear: DONALD TRUMP DID NOT DEFEND NAZIS.


What gwargan said.

In this scenario silence is endorsement and the Nazis, KKK and other white supremacists specifically understood it as such. This also isn't the first time he's played footsie with them ( recall the David Duke thing ). He's been complicit in emboldening them and this is where it's gotten us. Actual hordes of torch wielding Nazis marching through an American city. And yet, despite that, Trump could not bring himself to condemn them by name and tried to make this a false equivalency.



PumpkinHat wrote:
But anyways the man isn't perfect and he needs to be criticized on the points that actually matter.


The President of the United States not emboldening or appearing to endorse Nazis is a point that really, REALLY actually matters. >.>


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Posted 8/17/17 , edited 8/17/17
BLM has people within it's movement that advocate for the killing of cops, some actually did. Others within the movement have pulled white people out of their cars and beat them. Did Obama condemn this group? Quite the opposite he invited them to the White House. Donald Trump is not defending Nazis even if he was silent about them. As I already said, in his first press conference he condemned "violence on many sides" and later specifically condemned white-supremacy like the media wanted. If like gwargan you are saying that he should condemn the alt-right I wholly agree with you, but saying that he is defending them is wrong. Silence is not an endorsement of a group, silence is silence. If Obama had not invited BLM to the White House and instead said nothing not even I would suggest that he was defending them, just because they supported him.
EDIT: Source on Obama BLM: http://edition.cnn.com/2016/07/13/politics/obama-black-lives-matter-meeting/index.html
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Posted 8/17/17 , edited 8/17/17

gwargan wrote:


PumpkinHat wrote:


Dialogue, not violence, is how we Make America Great Again.
Peace.


I agree with you my dude. I wish that colleges wouldn't shut down speaking events and such because it stifles productive dialogue and thinking under the pretense that thoughts and idea different from their own are offensive and damaging.

But Trumpski didn't do what needed to do, and that was publicly denounce the Alt-Right endorsements of him, because in name the Alt-right have a much bigger following than the Klan. There was no doubt hatred and racial bigotry, but we aren't dealing with the Klan in name. It's the Alt-Right.

Not doing this has legitimized the white supremacists and has given the left media and radical left more ammunition, and made those white people that feel victimized by the current social structure feel more inclined to side with the Alt-Right. Especially when the violence was initiated by the protesters to that march.

These people aren't driven by rational dialogue, but by radical hatred and bias from both sides of the aisle.

It's a sad, outrageous thing, to be sure.





What an unbelievably nuanced take on the situation! You better accept that fucking friend request!


gwargan wrote:


MysticGon wrote:


gwargan wrote:

The super fun part of all this nonsense, for me as a conservative at least, Is that the press conference on Charlottesville needed to have one thing happen: Denounce the support of the Alt-Right.. That's it.

That didn't happen.

Yes you can thank Antifa or whatever groups that came in and incited the first bit of violence as far as what's been covered by the media on both sides, which is a huge joke as far as the facts are concerned, but the main fact is that the ideology of the Alt-Right is disgusting.

The marchers at least, not the randos that just post memes. Are they assholes? Absolutely. But they may have just been caught up in this sick fad. Conjecture, obviously.

Trump screwed up royally by not denouncing and condemning the support of the Alt-Right. The white supremacy address only covers the supremacists we know that are evil and obviously have something to do with this group, but name-dropping them wasn't enough. Alt-right support is what he should have denounced.

Both sides of this skirmish are to blame: one for using violence against a peaceful and law-abiding march, albeit evil and scummy in nature,, and those who marched for an evil ideology.The second it became violent is when it should have been shut down.


So he should be more forceful with his condemnations and create greater distance between him and the alt right. How do you suggest he do that? What would you say to him if he hired you as an adviser?



On a side note... Reading all the responses, it's an interesting mix of "he's doing fine", "shut up and get to work" and your typical liberal banter. So far so good.


Well, If I had his ear, I would say that he fire Steve Bannon because this directly connects him to the Alt-Right movement, and condones their motives. He also said that Breitbart media is a safe place for them to share ideas and thoughts, while this is completely legal, still connects Trump to the Alt-Right. Trump challenged a reporter on the motivation and definition of the Alt-right without giving his definition, though his connection with Bannon a his chief strategist suggests that Trump of course know what it is and what they stand for.

Like I said, not all of the Alt-Right is truly fascist, as most of their following lives for triggering leftists and posting memes, but the little that are caused a major scene. While that was legal as well, its was engaged with violence due to the ideology of that march.

Condemning the group that endorses him after they caused a murder and saluting like Nazis and saying that he is their motivation; he should have put on the table that the Alt-right have no respect and no association from or with him, and he wants nothing to do with them.


Trump's ultra-protectionist, anti-globalist platform is like a flame to those moths and the media has become exceedingly efficient at assassinating the characters of anyone who associates with the president. The fair-minded people that would suggest these things are probably scared off by that. Should Trump change his platform to keep them away, or would that just burn everyone else that voted for him. There are a lot of closet racists running about, that's for sure. Personally I think he should surround himself with constitutionalists like Rand Paul.
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Posted 8/17/17 , edited 8/17/17
you cant post this and expect people to not troll to a certain level the faulty "opinions" that you have regarding his presidency and his actions of his peers.
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Posted 8/17/17 , edited 8/17/17

filosofito12 wrote:

you cant post this and expect people to not troll to a certain level the faulty "opinions" that you have regarding his presidency and his actions of his peers.


Expected? Yes. Fucks given? 0.

What about you. If the president hired you to help move things along what would you suggest to him?
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