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Post Reply Not using right trans pronoun in Calif could put people in jail (LGBT Long-Term Care Resident Bill of R
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Posted 8/18/17 , edited 8/18/17
Can I just call them Chicks with Dicks?

At least I'm recognizing them as a woman, but with a dick.

Or I can call them a Shemale. Seems fair to be honest.

Like I said before. Go ahead and charge me please, no use in forcing myself to lie to others
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Posted 8/18/17 , edited 8/18/17

gwargan wrote:
This is a good conversation that could actually be helpful to others in the thread, outside of chiding me and them for having an opposite view.

Currently, no. But changing law to avoid offending sick people based on individual subjective view isn't a fair or helpful treatment. Like I said, it's pandering and the treatment proposed by California is almost purely symbolic.

I would propose psychological treatment and medication. It would be a proper response to those afflicted and would make the people bitching have less to argue with and shut up. Now, for every human that feels this way? It's quite obvious statistically that this is mostly a fad in recent years, but I won't ignore the fact that there are people with gender dysphoria and are suffering immensely.


What medication? What psychological treatment?
Again, this is regarding nurses within a nursing home. The current treatment for patients with gender dysphoria is to alleviate their symptoms of distress by validating their perceived gender. This isn't regarding children still within the developmental ages--clearly the approach would differ, but the elderly. Additionally, it isn't outside reason that some of these elderly patients may have been born with disorders of sexual development that remain without record (since it was common decades ago).

You're not suggesting anything for these people--if anything you're promoting distressing these patients further. Waving your hands around and getting upset the treatment hurts your political view isn't helping anyone.


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Posted 8/18/17 , edited 8/18/17

Amyas_Leigh wrote:

The anti psychotic medication Pimozide works wonders at treating gender dysphoria.


It has a extremely low success rate and is only sometimes recommended where gender dysphoria may not be the underlying problem (it alleviates a condition that may incur gender dysphoria-like symptoms in acute cases). So, no, unfortunately. To expand and clarify a bit, it's like how anxiety medication can help patients with autism--or patients that actually have bad anxiety disorders and appears similar to autism, doesn't actually treat autism.
Posted 8/18/17 , edited 8/18/17

PrinceJudar wrote:


It has a extremely low success rate


So does "treating" them with surgery and hormones. Unless getting them to kill themselves is the end goal, it doesn't work.
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Posted 8/18/17 , edited 8/18/17

Amyas_Leigh wrote:

So does "treating" them with surgery and hormones. Unless getting them to kill themselves is the end goal, it doesn't work.


Higher success rate than what you're suggesting. A better alternative has not been found yet.

Disclaimer: Except in the case of young children.



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Posted 8/18/17 , edited 8/18/17
This can't be constitutional. Surely this won't actually happen...right?
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Posted 8/18/17 , edited 8/18/17

PrinceJudar wrote:

This isn't regarding children still within the developmental ages--clearly the approach would differ, but the elderly. Additionally, it isn't outside reason that some of these elderly patients may have been born with disorders of sexual development that remain without record (since it was common decades ago).



Thank you for pointing this out. This I agree with. I honestly hadn't thought of it this way.


The specifics of these treatments I ultimately wouldn't know, nor have I eluded to that. I'm not a doctor. I admit that what you had outlined would improve the quality of life by reducing stress, and that's all that can be done as there is no definitive treatment or cure. Yes, I am most certainly afraid for the political ramifications of this. Am I upset about it in this discussion? No.

Although, insinuating I don't care about these people and what they're going through because I have a general disagreement with this way of thinking is a little pretentious. I do care, and I want the best lives for them.

The only thing I'm promoting is logical discussion, which we are having.
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Posted 8/18/17 , edited 8/18/17

gwargan wrote:

Thank you for pointing this out. This I agree with. I honestly hadn't thought of it this way.

The specifics of these treatments I ultimately wouldn't know, nor have I eluded to that. I'm not a doctor. I admit that what you had outlined would improve the quality of life by reducing stress, and that's all that can be done as there is no definitive treatment or cure. Yes, I am most certainly afraid for the political ramifications of this. Am I upset about it in this discussion? No.

Although, insinuating I don't care about these people and what they're going through because I have a general disagreement with this way of thinking is a little pretentious. I do care, and I want the best lives for them.

The only thing I'm promoting is logical discussion, which we are having.


Well, when you're polite like that I concede my tone is typically arrogant--could blame it on my ASD, but I'm quite the self aware prick.

I'm hoping as much as you are that better treatment is found for people suffering from this distress. Unfortunately the disorder is quite complicated in its foundation since it takes root in a number of biological, developmental, endocrinological and even genetic abnormalities--largely found to be quite heritable. It's their physiological predisposition that often underlies this undesirable state, and so it's slightly easier for those around them to make respectable compromise to avoid unnecessary distress and invalidation. Telling a female with gender dysphoria they're just a girl and insisting on referencing to her as such is quite similar to telling a person with major depressive disorder they're not depressed and pretending they're not--invalidating those thoughts and feelings despite those roots is just kind of asinine (especially in services where that's just unprofessionally hostile). Of course there's limits to be drawn on how much a person is due to tolerate, and it's just as harmful to fulfill every need demanded--this is just creating a minimum bar and frankly isn't asking much.


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Posted 8/18/17 , edited 8/18/17


This is quite nuanced.


I can understand this being the case in with the elderly that are still convinced that they are another gender psychologically and have been living this way for years and then telling them that they're sick. It definitely would invite a dangerous state of instability. I
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Posted 8/18/17 , edited 8/18/17

HateKillingCamels wrote:

amazing that people care so much.

Amazing that you don't care. Imo. Well, I guess it isn't too shocking.

Anyway, what a way to ruin what could have been a decent bill.


This bill would enact the Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, and Transgender Long-Term Care Facility Resident’s Bill of Rights. Among other things, the bill would make it unlawful, except as specified, for any long-term care facility to take specified actions wholly or partially on the basis of a person’s actual or perceived sexual orientation, gender identity, gender expression, or human immunodeficiency virus (HIV) status, including, among others, willfully and repeatedly failing to use a resident’s preferred name or pronouns after being clearly informed of the preferred name and pronouns and or pronouns, or denying admission to a long-term care facility, transferring or refusing to transfer a resident within a facility or to another facility, or discharging or evicting a resident from a facility. The bill would also provide certain protections to all residents of long-term care facilities during, among others, other things, physical examinations or treatments, relating to bodily privacy. The bill would define long-term care facility for purposes of these provisions to include skilled nursing facilities, intermediate care facilities, and residential care facilities for the elderly. The bill would also, among other things, require each facility to post a specified notice regarding discrimination alongside its current nondiscrimination policy in all places and on all materials where the nondiscrimination policy is posted. The bill would require a violation of these provisions to be treated as a violation under the Long-Term Care, Health, Safety, and Security Act of 1973, the California Residential Care Facilities for the Elderly Act, or specified provisions providing for the licensure and regulation of health facilities, which may include the imposition of civil penalties. By expanding the definition of existing crimes, the bill would impose a state-mandated local program.

The rest of it is actually plausible and not antithetical to 1A.
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Posted 8/18/17 , edited 8/18/17
I'm concerned about how easily this can be abused. Call me "jaded," if you like.
Posted 8/18/17 , edited 8/18/17


Canada passed a law Thursday making it illegal to use the wrong gender pronouns. Critics say that Canadians who do not subscribe to progressive gender theory could be accused of hate crimes, jailed, fined, and made to take anti-bias training.

http://dailysignal.com/2017/06/19/canadians-face-hate-crimes-using-wrong-gender-pronouns/


Anti-bias training! This is starting to sound like re-education camps from the Centaur's Life anime.
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Posted 8/18/17 , edited 8/18/17

PrinceJudar wrote:


Amyas_Leigh wrote:

So does "treating" them with surgery and hormones. Unless getting them to kill themselves is the end goal, it doesn't work.


Higher success rate than what you're suggesting. A better alternative has not been found yet.

Disclaimer: Except in the case of young children.





Also figured I should point out that the higher suicide rate is from external causes, originating from the way trans people are treated rather than the simple fact that they are trans. It's an important detail I find great pleasure in bringing up given how much it triggers stupid people.
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Posted 8/18/17 , edited 8/18/17
that's old news, that was taking place in New York City (at least fined not arrested) for awhile now, people throwing around law suits, and the likes, so it makes perfect sense that California would get a hold of that and run with it. only time will tell about this bill, so, in all honesty, it probably will be passed since California is so far left they are lost in the void somewhere. and yes Texas is an answer for the far right to make this fair and balanced
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Posted 8/18/17 , edited 8/20/17
The law seems to say that you have to be informed first, but a little false testimony can circumvent that.

I wish for Calexit so the place can either go to hell over its far leftist policies or this place becomes closer to the center by virtue of the rich left city people leaving the state when it starts going downhill.
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