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Post Reply CPS seeks more severe punishments for online hate speech.
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Posted 8/24/17 , edited 8/24/17
What in the hell is "hate speech"? Who gets to decide what is and is not "hate speech"? Where do we draw the line between speech that someone doesn't like and actual "hate speech" whatever that may be?

And no, me saying something that you dont like is not "hate speech", people need to grow up, block and move on.
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Posted 8/24/17

riverjustice wrote:

And also if I created my own religion called Flagism where I believe Flags are divine beings. If anyone burns a flag , I can perceive that as hostility toward my own religion. And put you in jail for hate speech...


You'd have to fight it out in the courts first if your country already has laws that say people have a constitutional right to burn flags.
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Posted 8/24/17 , edited 8/24/17

danagram wrote:

It's a hate crime because they intentionally targeted the mosque to upset Muslims because of their religion.

We also have to consider that not everything that the group did while at that mosque was reported. I'm too tired to look up the actual records of the trial,but I wouldn't be surprised if there was enough evidence to convict all of them for maximum sentences if they went the non guilty route. From what I could quickly find all of them plead guilty,and didn't appeal the rulings.


Burning down buildings is called arson. Damaging buildings is called vandalism.Hating someone for their ideas or beliefs shouldn't be a crime. People should be able to hate Nazism. Or Islam, or Christianity, or any religion.
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Posted 8/24/17

danagram wrote:


riverjustice wrote:

And also if I created my own religion called Flagism where I believe Flags are divine beings. If anyone burns a flag , I can perceive that as hostility toward my own religion. And put you in jail for hate speech...


You'd have to fight it out in the courts first if your country already has laws that say people have a constitutional right to burn flags.


Instead of trying to argue against my specific example, you should try to argue the conceptual idea I was illustrating.
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Posted 8/24/17 , edited 8/24/17

riverjustice wrote:

Burning down buildings is called arson. Damaging buildings is called vandalism.Hating someone for their ideas or beliefs shouldn't be a crime. People should be able to hate Nazism. Or Islam, or Christianity, or any religion.


The UK has no crime related to thinking hateful thoughts. However the actions that people take can be punished, as you describe above.

In the Bristol Mosque case the group plead guilty to "Religiously aggravated public order offences," not "hate crimes." UK media, as with media in other countries, likes to print sensationalist headlines and use buzz words to generate sales & ratings.

I haven't read the court papers but some other news sources say the incident included shouting abuse outside of the mosque, placing bacon on door handles and throwing bacon sandwiches at people. Technically speaking the police could have charged them with trying to incite a riot as they clearly new that what they were doing was going to cause significant offence.

What the American audience here needs to remember is that UK culture is very different from American culture. What is socially acceptable in America is not always acceptable here and vice-versa. Laws are designed to defend societal norms, so there will be some differences between countries.
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Posted 8/24/17 , edited 8/24/17

MidoriNoTora wrote:


"Religiously aggravated public order offences," not "hate crimes." UK media, as with media in other countries, likes to print sensationalist headlines and use buzz words to generate sales & ratings.

What the American audience here needs to remember is that UK culture is very different from American culture. What is socially acceptable in America is not always acceptable here and vice-versa. Laws are designed to defend societal norms, so there will be some differences between countries.



I'm unfamiliar with UK laws, but I can't connect why liberalism would differ in another democratic country especially between America and the U.K.
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Posted 8/24/17 , edited 8/24/17

riverjustice wrote:

I'm unfamiliar with UK laws, but I can't connect why liberalism would differ in another democratic country especially between America and the U.K.


For a start the concept of liberalism is different in each country. An often talked about example is that the average UK citizen is happy to have no access or restricted access to guns in return for having fewer armed criminals; American citizens generally prefer to have free access to weapons so that everyone is on the same level. I won't go into the relative merits of either view as plenty of threads discuss those already. This example is solely to illustrate a difference in view of what citizens perceive as a basic liberty.

In context of this thread, it is important to remember that the USA has freedom of speech enshrined in law. The UK doesn't have such a law; you are free to say what you want up to a point but citizens generally accept there are boundaries to decency. The big debates in the UK are around where to draw those boundaries, not whether they should be removed completely.
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Posted 8/24/17 , edited 8/24/17

MidoriNoTora wrote:


In context of this thread, it is important to remember that the USA has freedom of speech enshrined in law. The UK doesn't have such a law; you are free to say what you want up to a point but citizens generally accept there are boundaries to decency. The big debates in the UK are around where to draw those boundaries, not whether they should be removed completely.


Well there are restrictions to our "freedom of speech" in America, such as imminent lawless action (yelling fire for no reason), fraud, posting child porno.

But what you just told me makes me more appreciative being an American. I like our current framework for freedom of speech.
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Posted 8/24/17
Well if that's what it takes to keep people from killing each other over statues and shit then good.
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Posted 8/24/17

octorockandroll wrote:

Well if that's what it takes to keep people from killing each other over statues and shit then good.


*Canadian
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Posted 8/24/17
Let Canada and UK become Big Brother. Glad I don't live there.
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Posted 8/24/17

OneEyedDragon wrote:


octorockandroll wrote:

Well if that's what it takes to keep people from killing each other over statues and shit then good.


*Canadian


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Posted 8/24/17
For all you communist lovers out there:

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Posted 8/24/17
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Posted 8/24/17
I wonder how many people here actually read what CPS' initiative actually entailed.

Probably not many.
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