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Post Reply Nurse assaulted and arrested for refusing warrantless blood draw.
mxdan 
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Posted 9/2/17 , edited 9/4/17
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F5hgo1p8ePU


By all accounts, the head nurse at the University of Utah Hospital’s burn unit was professional and restrained when she told a Salt Lake City police detective he wasn’t allowed to draw blood from a badly injured patient.

The detective didn’t have a warrant, first off. And the patient wasn’t conscious, so he couldn’t give consent. Without that, the detective was barred from collecting blood samples — not just by hospital policy, but by basic constitutional law.

Still, Detective Jeff Payne insisted that he be let in to take the blood, saying the nurse would be arrested and charged if she refused.

Nurse Alex Wubbels politely stood her ground. She got her supervisor on the phone so Payne could hear the decision loud and clear. “Sir,” said the supervisor, “you’re making a huge mistake because you’re threatening a nurse.”

Payne snapped. He seized hold of the nurse, shoved her out of the building and cuffed her hands behind her back. A bewildered Wubbels screamed “help me” and “you’re assaulting me” as the detective forced her into an unmarked car and accused her of interfering with an investigation.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2017/09/01/this-is-crazy-sobs-utah-hospital-nurse-as-cop-roughs-her-up-arrests-her-for-doing-her-job/?deferJs=true&outputType=default-article&utm_term=.c7549a9e6430&wpisrc=nl_az_most&wpmk=1

This likely falls into a constitutional interpretation debate. While not implicit for the video here by and large process of law seems to be subject to constant interpretation changes due to vague writing throughout. Boundaries are pushed, people accept it, and then a new standard is created. This process is repeated until the system looks nothing like it originally did. That isn't to say that the police force is full of bad people. Remember, they are only trying to do their job more effectively. Be that as it may though wording allows them to change accepted rules. One such scenario is common now.

Is this a symptom of a larger problem? If so, are the police winning the struggle for constitutional dominance and the citizens losing rights?
qwueri 
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Posted 9/2/17 , edited 9/4/17
http://www.cnn.com/2017/09/01/health/utah-nurse-arrest-police-video/index.html
The Chief of Police already issued a public apology and the officers involved are on administrative leave. Seems like this is more of a matter of poor decision making on part of the officers and possibly their supervisors than a systematic abuse of authority.
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Posted 9/2/17 , edited 9/4/17
Regardless of the law, arresting the nurse doesn't help anything. Everyone needed to slow down and be cool. One problem is that the other cops are apparently not allowed to get in front of the emotional officer and insist he relax.
mxdan 
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Posted 9/2/17 , edited 9/4/17

qwueri wrote:

http://www.cnn.com/2017/09/01/health/utah-nurse-arrest-police-video/index.html
The Chief of Police already issued a public apology and the officers involved are on administrative leave. Seems like this is more of a matter of poor decision making on part of the officers and possibly their supervisors than a systematic abuse of authority.


Some points on your comment:

- Police always get put on administrative leave in publicized cases.
- Poor decision making? Arresting a nurse for following constitutional law? Really?

- This video isn't the best use to hammer the point I was making as it is isolated and really doesn't outline the specifics. I will say that the issue though isn't in how the officer abused the system. That misses the point entirely. It is how he interpreted his ability in the system to do what he did. I don't think he was acting with ill will, and that is the problem. Abuse implies awareness. Was he aware?

It is evident in many a case similar to this that a clear definition of boundaries, increasingly, doesn't exist.
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26 / M / Chaldea Security...
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Posted 9/2/17 , edited 9/7/17
Power tripping shitty ass cop
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Posted 9/2/17 , edited 9/7/17
If the nurse were to take the blood and this case went to court, the court would likely throw away the evidence. The precedent for such cases has been pretty thoroughly outlined stating that this is unconstitutional. The police don't decide where the line is or what people's rights are, the courts do.
qwueri 
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Posted 9/2/17 , edited 9/4/17

mxdan wrote:

Some points on your comment:

- Police always get put on administrative leave in publicized cases.
- Poor decision making? Arresting a nurse for following constitutional law? Really?

- This video isn't the best use to hammer the point I was making as it is isolated and really doesn't outline the specifics. I will say that the issue though isn't in how the officer abused the system. That misses the point entirely. It is how he interpreted his ability in the system to do what he did. I don't think he was acting with ill will, and that is the problem. Abuse implies awareness. Was he aware?

It is evident in many a case similar to this that a clear definition of boundaries, increasingly, doesn't exist.


You don't have to act with ill-will to abuse authority. Though I doubt his exasperation with being asked to wait until the patient was could give or deny consent was not simply about doing his duty. Whether he was following the advice of a superior or he acted on his frustration in the heat of the moment, it was a poor interpretation of enforcing the law on their part. There may very well be some intention of intimidate the the hospital staff into complying with police demands, given the apparent rocky history between the two entities. However I also suspect the officer (and advising superior) wrongfully interpreted their authority in this case, and abused the power to arrest as a means to try and cut through red tape.
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Posted 9/2/17 , edited 9/4/17
Shows that it isn't only race that causes controversy it is just an officer not having good judgement. Though I have not read why the blood sample was important and the detective's side of the story, I hold my judgement until I hear both sides of the story. Too many times you read the victim's story and feel outraged, then read the officer's story and turns out reasonable, that some details were left out by the victim to make it sound worse then it was.

I am guessing blood was needed for tests for DUI or drugs, and he had to have it asap and this was the first time the person he brought in was unconscious.
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Posted 9/2/17 , edited 9/7/17
The police don't assault you.

You are a citizen and they have the power over you, to take your freedom or life if it is deemed necessary. You and everything around you are ultimately owned by the government and they allow you 'rights' to make you easier to manage since you think you have some sort of control in anything that actually matters.

Its genius really. It was all over before we realized there was something happening at all.
lawdog 
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Posted 9/2/17 , edited 9/5/17

mxdan wrote:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F5hgo1p8ePU


By all accounts, the head nurse at the University of Utah Hospital’s burn unit was professional and restrained when she told a Salt Lake City police detective he wasn’t allowed to draw blood from a badly injured patient.

The detective didn’t have a warrant, first off. And the patient wasn’t conscious, so he couldn’t give consent. Without that, the detective was barred from collecting blood samples — not just by hospital policy, but by basic constitutional law.

Still, Detective Jeff Payne insisted that he be let in to take the blood, saying the nurse would be arrested and charged if she refused.

Nurse Alex Wubbels politely stood her ground. She got her supervisor on the phone so Payne could hear the decision loud and clear. “Sir,” said the supervisor, “you’re making a huge mistake because you’re threatening a nurse.”

Payne snapped. He seized hold of the nurse, shoved her out of the building and cuffed her hands behind her back. A bewildered Wubbels screamed “help me” and “you’re assaulting me” as the detective forced her into an unmarked car and accused her of interfering with an investigation.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2017/09/01/this-is-crazy-sobs-utah-hospital-nurse-as-cop-roughs-her-up-arrests-her-for-doing-her-job/?deferJs=true&outputType=default-article&utm_term=.c7549a9e6430&wpisrc=nl_az_most&wpmk=1

This likely falls into a constitutional interpretation debate. While not implicit for the video here by and large process of law seems to be subject to constant interpretation changes due to vague writing throughout. Boundaries are pushed, people accept it, and then a new standard is created. This process is repeated until the system looks nothing like it originally did. That isn't to say that the police force is full of bad people. Remember, they are only trying to do their job more effectively. Be that as it may though wording allows them to change accepted rules. One such scenario is common now.

Is this a symptom of a larger problem? If so, are the police winning the struggle for constitutional dominance and the citizens losing rights?


No. This is long established legal procedure. The nurse was/is absolutely correct, as was/is the hospital. The officer committed a crime by arresting the nurse, and that blood sample would've been thrown out of evidence, if it even got that far.

As others have pointed out, this raises questions about the training of that police department. Did they not know, or did they not care? Either way, there's a serious problem.
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Posted 9/2/17 , edited 9/4/17

If you take the fatalistic stance, you have already lost.
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27 / F / At the Memory Den
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Posted 9/2/17 , edited 9/7/17
the cop screwed up majorly
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25 / M / Beyond The Wall
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Posted 9/2/17 , edited 9/4/17
I hope the hospital sues
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46 / M / Verginia
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Posted 9/2/17 , edited 9/5/17


A clasic case of "respect my athoratah" emotionally challanged individual becomes a cop because he felt powerless as a kid. Gets himself a badge and a gun and bullys the citizens he is paid to serve because he believes he is entitled to respect.

Ass hats like this make it impossible for real cops to do their job. This guy should be stripped of all his "athoratah" and go streight to jail for the maximim term allowed under the law. He is clearly guilty of assult, unlawful imprissonment, hipa violations, attempted unlawful search ans sesiure of all things bodily fluids, in some states he could also be charged with craven indifference for interfering with a first responder.
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Posted 9/2/17 , edited 9/5/17
Turns out the guy who they wanted to do the illegal blood draw on was a reserve police officer.

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