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Post Reply Why is there copyright?
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Posted 9/17/17 , edited 9/17/17
Ever since the invention/discovery of computers, there has been copyrights. Do extraterrestrials also have copyrights? How should it work?
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Posted 9/17/17 , edited 9/17/17

fredreload wrote:

Ever since the invention/discovery of computers, there has been copyrights. Do extraterrestrials also have copyrights? How should it work?


Copyrights have been around since the 1700s.
It's a simple process to ensure that someone else doesn't steal or copy the hard work of another individual.
I hold quite a few copyrights and patents for this very reason.
It works fine as it is but patent trolls are a bit annoying.
They are people who simply patent a simple idea in order to sue those who build an idea based upon the simple one that would have been assumed "common knowledge" and not copyrighted as multiple companies use this fundamental concept.
Other than that, it's pretty solid.
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Posted 9/17/17 , edited 9/17/17
Imagine if you came up with something new you could profit from--and then someone else stole that idea, paraded it as theirs and profited instead.

That is why there is copyright.

EDIT: Sorry, looking at your question again, I see you didn't ask why there are copyrights. But I'll leave the above in in case anyone asks.

To answer your question, I'm sure in an advanced capitalist alien society they have this concept. If there is one.
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Posted 9/17/17 , edited 9/17/17
Anyone who has played X-COM knows that aliens are big fans of cloning. It makes copyright law a little redundant.
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Posted 9/17/17 , edited 9/17/17

JobClass wrote:

Imagine if you came up with something new you could profit from--and then someone else stole that idea, paraded it as theirs and profited instead.

That is why there is copyright.

EDIT: Sorry, looking at your question again, I see you didn't ask why there are copyrights. But I'll leave the above in in case anyone asks.

To answer your question, I'm sure in an advanced capitalist alien society they have this concept. If there is one.


It's true it does need some kind of reward system
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Posted 9/17/17 , edited 9/17/17
Copyright date back as far as mass production. With each passing decade, content becomes further removed from any singular tangible object. The cost of time, money, and other resources it takes to produce the content is increasingly separate from the cost of time, money, and other resources that it takes produce the means of conveyance.

Ex: A studio might spend 125 million dollars making and 75 million dollars promoting a movie. The $25 you spend for a blu-ray reflects that cost not the the 50 cents it costs them to burn the disk, print the insert and cover, put it in a case, and shrink wrap that case. If other people could sell the $25 blu-ray and only incur the 50 cents cost then there's no way for the studios to justify the 200 million they spent to make the movie and no movies would get produced.

When copyright was originally invented, the term was 14 years with the option to renew it for 14 years if the creator demonstrated they were still using their copyright. ( Ex: If you wrote a book and 14 years later you were still selling it or working on sequels to it then you could apply to keep that exclusive for another 14 years. If you write a book and 14 years later it's been out of print for 12 years and you're not doing anything with it, rather than seeing it fall into obscurity of being lose to time, it would land in the public domain so anyone who saw value in it could put it back into print and/ or pursue it further. ) The goal was to incentive creators while minimizing the consequences for the culture.

Corporate entities have gotten the copyright term extended time and again. Now it's at the point where a book's copyright is for 90 years from publication or 120 years from creation ( whichever comes first ) unless the creator is known, then it's their lifetime + 75 years... and that's not even getting into the loopholes for corporately held properties which are interwoven with trademarks. 14 years means anyone who grew up with something as a child could build on it as an adult. 90+ years means nobody will live to directly build upon the works they grew up with without working for its owners... and that retards culture.

Copyright, as it currently exists, is a broken system that in many ways runs counter to its original purpose but it's not completely without merit because you still need to incentive the production of intangible media ( including the designs of tangible goods ) or else the culture would stagnate.

Returning to the 14+14 system might be a good place to start but really the whole set of laws should be overhauled because the nature of media and production have changed so dramatically since the laws were written that it's more patch than boat at this point and if it were rewritten from scratch there wouldn't be nearly as loopholes or contradictions.
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Posted 9/17/17 , edited 9/17/17

NeofluxProductions wrote:

Copyright date back as far as mass production. With each passing decade, content becomes further removed from any singular tangible object. The cost of time, money, and other resources it takes to produce the content is increasingly separate from the cost of time, money, and other resources that it takes produce the means of conveyance.

Ex: A studio might spend 125 million dollars making and 75 million dollars promoting a movie. The $25 you spend for a blu-ray reflects that cost not the the 50 cents it costs them to burn the disk, print the insert and cover, put it in a case, and shrink wrap that case. If other people could sell the $25 blu-ray and only incur the 50 cents cost then there's no way for the studios to justify the 200 million they spent to make the movie and no movies would get produced.

When copyright was originally invented, the term was 14 years with the option to renew it for 14 years if the creator demonstrated they were still using their copyright. ( Ex: If you wrote a book and 14 years later you were still selling it or working on sequels to it then you could apply to keep that exclusive for another 14 years. If you write a book and 14 years later it's been out of print for 12 years and you're not doing anything with it, rather than seeing it fall into obscurity of being lose to time, it would land in the public domain so anyone who saw value in it could put it back into print and/ or pursue it further. ) The goal was to incentive creators while minimizing the consequences for the culture.

Corporate entities have gotten the copyright term extended time and again. Now it's at the point where a book's copyright is for 90 years from publication or 120 years from creation ( whichever comes first ) unless the creator is known, then it's their lifetime + 75 years... and that's not even getting into the loopholes for corporately held properties which are interwoven with trademarks. 14 years means anyone who grew up with something as a child could build on it as an adult. 90+ years means nobody will live to directly build upon the works they grew up with without working for its owners... and that retards culture.

Copyright, as it currently exists, is a broken system that in many ways runs counter to its original purpose but it's not completely without merit because you still need to incentive the production of intangible media ( including the designs of tangible goods ) or else the culture would stagnate.

Returning to the 14+14 system might be a good place to start but really the whole set of laws should be overhauled because the nature of media and production have changed so dramatically since the laws were written that it's more patch than boat at this point and if it were rewritten from scratch there wouldn't be nearly as loopholes or contradictions.


Right, since the Youtube opens up I've been looking for things to stream, I mean it is a cool idea. I want to sponsor a TV channel, or a film, but I wouldn't know what is legal for stream seeing many 24/7 streams out there. Can you give me some ideas as to where I could pick up a TV channel or film to stream?

P.S I want to stream like Joyce channel
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Posted 9/17/17 , edited 9/17/17

fredreload wrote:

Right, since the Youtube opens up I've been looking for things to stream, I mean it is a cool idea. I want to sponsor a TV channel, or a film, but I wouldn't know what is legal for stream seeing many 24/7 streams out there. Can you give me some ideas as to where I could pick up a TV channel or film to stream?

P.S I want to stream like Joyce channel


Most of the content which gets flagged and taken down from youtube is flagged by bots that scan videos looking for specific chunks of the movies, music, etc. in their respective company's catalog. Many reviewers have stopped showing clips as part of their reviews ( even though that would be fair use ) because if the clip they show happens to be part of the chunk those scanners are searching for then their video will be falsely flagged as pirated content and they'll lose income until the issue is resolved.

These bots have trouble scanning live streams. Nearly all of the 24/7 live youtube streams that aren't traffic cameras, weather cameras, zoo feeds, etc. are illegally pirated content. Assume if you see a tv show or movie on youtube which isn't posted by the production company, studio, or channel then it's probably illegally pirated. There are always exceptions but easily 99 times out of 100, it's pirated content.

As far as sponsoring a youtube channel, look to see if they have a patreon. Donate to it and you're a sponsor. Their higher tiers may offer to plug you by name at the start of the show or put your logo in front of every episode. If they don't have a patreon or other sponsor system setup, shoot them a message.

If you want to license a show or movie to stream legally on your channel, contact the studio or their distributor unless it's public domain. ( Note: Public domain content is free to show without a license but hardly anything produced in the last 40+ years is currently public domain thanks to the current copyright laws making copyright automatic and extending the terms. ) Prices will vary greatly. An independent/ boutique film releasers may license a film to you for a few hundred dollars while a tv channel sometimes charges millions per episode for their streaming rights. ( If you ever wondered why Amazon Prime and Netflix have so many low budget movies nobody has heard of, they are usually bundled in with the movies they want or titles they secured for dirt cheap. ) It never hurts to reach out to inquire but generally the larger and more well known the production, the higher the cost to stream it legally.
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Posted 9/17/17 , edited 9/17/17
Copyrights and patents are different things. I think the copyright system works well enough. The patent system could use some work, since it gets in the way of technological advancement and competition. Still better than nothing though.
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Posted 9/17/17 , edited 9/17/17

NeofluxProductions wrote:


fredreload wrote:

Right, since the Youtube opens up I've been looking for things to stream, I mean it is a cool idea. I want to sponsor a TV channel, or a film, but I wouldn't know what is legal for stream seeing many 24/7 streams out there. Can you give me some ideas as to where I could pick up a TV channel or film to stream?

P.S I want to stream like Joyce channel


Most of the content which gets flagged and taken down from youtube is flagged by bots that scan videos looking for specific chunks of the movies, music, etc. in their respective company's catalog. Many reviewers have stopped showing clips as part of their reviews ( even though that would be fair use ) because if the clip they show happens to be part of the chunk those scanners are searching for then their video will be falsely flagged as pirated content and they'll lose income until the issue is resolved.

These bots have trouble scanning live streams. Nearly all of the 24/7 live youtube streams that aren't traffic cameras, weather cameras, zoo feeds, etc. are illegally pirated content. Assume if you see a tv show or movie on youtube which isn't posted by the production company, studio, or channel then it's probably illegally pirated. There are always exceptions but easily 99 times out of 100, it's pirated content.

As far as sponsoring a youtube channel, look to see if they have a patreon. Donate to it and you're a sponsor. Their higher tiers may offer to plug you by name at the start of the show or put your logo in front of every episode. If they don't have a patreon or other sponsor system setup, shoot them a message.

If you want to license a show or movie to stream legally on your channel, contact the studio or their distributor unless it's public domain. ( Note: Public domain content is free to show without a license but hardly anything produced in the last 40+ years is currently public domain thanks to the current copyright laws making copyright automatic and extending the terms. ) Prices will vary greatly. An independent/ boutique film releasers may license a film to you for a few hundred dollars while a tv channel sometimes charges millions per episode for their streaming rights. ( If you ever wondered why Amazon Prime and Netflix have so many low budget movies nobody has heard of, they are usually bundled in with the movies they want or titles they secured for dirt cheap. ) It never hurts to reach out to inquire but generally the larger and more well known the production, the higher the cost to stream it legally.


Thanks for the clarification. I found the creative common license. Now how do I get a creative common license for anime so I can stream like Crunchyroll?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creative_Commons_license
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Posted 9/17/17 , edited 9/17/17

fredreload wrote:

Thanks for the clarification. I found the creative common license. Now how do I get a creative common license for anime so I can stream like Crunchyroll?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creative_Commons_license


Creative Commons licenses are a way for the content- creators to grant the public at large permission to use their work in specified ways with specified terms. Only the owner of a work can choose to put an open license on it and I've not heard of any anime production company releasing any their titles with a creative commons license.

While I'm sure Crunchy Roll licenses things in bundles rather than title by title, they're almost certainly paying for every episode of every title available on this site and then recouping that cost through membership fees and advertisements. Only they would know the break down of how much they pay up front or how much they pay in royalties per view but if any of the content was free it would legally be on every streaming site and service.
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Posted 9/17/17 , edited 9/17/17

NeofluxProductions wrote:


fredreload wrote:

Thanks for the clarification. I found the creative common license. Now how do I get a creative common license for anime so I can stream like Crunchyroll?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creative_Commons_license


Creative Commons licenses are a way for the content- creators to grant the public at large permission to use their work in specified ways with specified terms. Only the owner of a work can choose to put an open license on it and I've not heard of any anime production company releasing any their titles with a creative commons license.

While I'm sure Crunchy Roll licenses things in bundles rather than title by title, they're almost certainly paying for every episode of every title available on this site and then recouping that cost through membership fees and advertisements. Only they would know the break down of how much they pay up front or how much they pay in royalties per view but if any of the content was free it would legally be on every streaming site and service.


Right, I've found Creative Commons to be an organization and not many anime uses Creative Commons licensing.

Well, does each show only have one license? Like if Crunchyroll acquires the license then Funimation cannot acquire the same license? And every show is probably copyrighted. The only way to purchase a license is by buying it directly off the studio right? I mean they are not listed on the site for sell is it?

P.S You are right, it is still best to ask the studio for streaming rights. How do Crunchyroll get the streaming rights ? I mean the studio probably would not respond to general public?

P.S Not bad, so you work with a television station, where they've acquired all the licenses
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Posted 9/17/17 , edited 9/17/17

fredreload wrote:

Well, does each show only have one license? Like if Crunchyroll acquires the license then Funimation cannot acquire the same license? And every show is probably copyrighted. The only way to purchase a license is by buying it directly off the studio right? I mean they are not listed on the site for sell is it?


If the license is exclusive that means only 1 place can have it. If the license is non-exclusive that means multiple places can license it.

Ex: If you have Hulu you'll see some shows listed as 'ONLY ON HULU' while others are just available through Hulu. The 'ONLY ON HULU' titles are exclusive licenses. The rest of their catalog is non-exclusive. Non-exclusive doesn't mean it is currently available elsewhere just that it could be available elsewhere if someone else licenses it.

Licenses are generally for a finite terms ( 6 months, 1 year, 2 years, 5 years, etc. ) This is why titles regularly leave different streaming services. The license is usually only indefinite if they purchased the show or series ( or produced it themselves. )

With anime, the licensing can be trickier because subtitle tracks and dubbed audio tracks are often produced by the entity that licensed the show rather than the original studio.

Ex: Hulu has some subtitled anime series which they licensed from Crunchyroll and some dubbed anime series which they licensed from Funimation. 'In Another World With My Smartphone' is currently licensed exclusively(?) to Crunchyroll for English subtitles and Hulu is currently licensing the English subtitled version ( non-exclusively ) from Crunchyroll.

If you licensed the raw ( unsubbed/ undubbed ) anime from the studio, you'd likely need to translate it yourself ( well, hire someone to translate it for you. ) If the raw anime is currently licensed to a company which subbed or dubbed it, then odds are the license to make your own translation isn't currently available.

If the raw anime was previously licensed to a company which subbed or dubbed it but their license has expired, then you'd either need to acquire the translation rights and then resub/ redub the show or movie or you would need to license the original show or movie from the original animation studio and then license the subtitle and/ or dubbed audio tracks from the company which previously subbed or dubbed the show or movie. The subtitle and dubbed audio tracks are generally considered 'derivative works' and so require their own license. That's why you have cases like Akira, which has 2 dramatically different English dubs and the various series which have already been retranslated and resubbed 2-3 times by different companies ( because the new company would rather create their own translation than license the prior company's tracks. )

If the company which subbed or dubbed the anime still holds the right to that show or movie then often they also hold the right to license the subbed or dubbed versions of that anime. If the title you're looking to stream is currently released through Funimation then you should probably start by contacting Funimation to ask about licensing the streaming rights from them. If they no longer hold the rights to it, then you need to contact the studio to find out the current rights holder, license it from them, and then if you want Funimation's translated version, then you'd go back to Funimation and license the translation.

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Posted 9/17/17 , edited 9/17/17
Queen Anne's Law in the UK in 1710 was the first copyright law. It was about censorship, pure and simple because the ruling class feared the Gutenberg press, and how it threatened to bring knowledge, and therefore power to the masses. A lot more books were published in the areas that would eventually become Germany in the 18th and 19th centuries than in England because German states had no such law. Books were also something nearly anyone could afford when they were printed freely.

In the US, the copyright clause of the constitution says, “To promote the progress of science and useful arts, by securing for limited times to authors and inventors the exclusive right to their respective writings and discoveries.” This clause also authorized patent laws to be made.

The original US copyright law of 1790 allowed protection for 14 years, renewable once for a total of 28. It also strictly limited what could be copyrighted to actual printed materials that were not merely entertainment. I think that was adequate to encourage creativity. Now, copyright lasts life of the author plus 70 years, and corporate held copyrights last 95. Some countries even allow perpetual copyright. This locking up ideas as property is no less a form of censorship than trying to suppress ideas, and was never meant for frivolous entertainment in the first place. Before the 1970's most publishers of American comic books did not claim copyright on them, so some obscure old-time characters are already in the public domain. It was understood and accepted at the time that they were frivolous entertainment, not science and the useful arts. Popular music, Hollywood movies and stuff on the idiot box are also frivolous in my opinion, so copyright never should have applied.

Now copyright stifles progress. No one has freedom of the press or freedom of speech to use words that have been locked away as someone's property, or even something vaguely similar, as that can be considered a derivative work. I will be happy when technology makes copyright irrelevant.
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Posted 9/17/17 , edited 9/17/17

fredreload wrote:

P.S You are right, it is still best to ask the studio for streaming rights. How do Crunchyroll get the streaming rights ? I mean the studio probably would not respond to general public?


Generally, if you have enough money and a sound proposal, studios will listen to you. Some may have other requirements to ensure their work is properly handled and an institution with a track record might get a better deal than a person off the street but if you have enough money and something haven't been licensed yet, the prior licenses have expired, and/ or the current licenses are non-exclusive, then they'll certainly hear your proposal.

You would probably want to hire an attorney to actually make the deal since there's plenty of paperwork to draft and sign. Gamal Hennessy ( http://www.creativecontractconsulting.com ) might be someone to contact if you have the funds to hire an attorney an start licensing shows and movies. He mainly works in comics these days but in the past he worked for Central Park Media and locked down licenses for movies like Grave of Fireflies. He's not cheap but he's a good bloke. ( Side note: RIP CPM. )
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