First  Prev  1  2  3  4  5  Next  Last
Post Reply NFL Protests During National Anthem
21461 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
36 / M / SoFlo
Offline
Posted 10/23/17 , edited 10/23/17

octorockandroll wrote:


zangeif123 wrote:

I guess it was a big deal yesterday down here in Miami when the Dolphins played. A lot of police officers refused to do volunteer security duty for the game. As a way for them to protest NFL players kneeling. This is really getting out of hand.


Wait, what? You do police work to keep people safe, not to spite people. I'm not saying that cops have to put in extra unpaid hours to do security at a sports game, but if they go out of their way to let everyone know that it's because they don't like a fraction of the people they would otherwise be protecting then they're only justifying the animosity these protesters feel.


No no, it's paid. Maybe I shoudn't have used the word volunteer. It's a pretty messed up situation. The security work for these games is optional work for officers, but a lot of them do it for easy overtime. But over the weekend a bunch of them banded together as their way to protest the NFL and not sign up for the extra work. Thus leaving the game with low security.
12147 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
21 / M / Winnipeg, MB.
Offline
Posted 10/23/17 , edited 10/23/17

zangeif123 wrote:


octorockandroll wrote:


zangeif123 wrote:

I guess it was a big deal yesterday down here in Miami when the Dolphins played. A lot of police officers refused to do volunteer security duty for the game. As a way for them to protest NFL players kneeling. This is really getting out of hand.


Wait, what? You do police work to keep people safe, not to spite people. I'm not saying that cops have to put in extra unpaid hours to do security at a sports game, but if they go out of their way to let everyone know that it's because they don't like a fraction of the people they would otherwise be protecting then they're only justifying the animosity these protesters feel.


No no, it's paid. Maybe I shoudn't have used the word volunteer. It's a pretty messed up situation. The security work for these games is optional work for officers, but a lot of them do it for easy overtime. But over the weekend a bunch of them banded together as their way to protest the NFL and not sign up for the extra work. Thus leaving the game with low security.


That makes it worse, yeah it's optional and you dont need to do it but if the dealbreaker is that you have to protect people you don't like along with the people you do then what the hell is wrong with you? Why are you even a police officer? Police officers are supposed to protect everybody.
runec 
41458 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
Online
Posted 10/23/17 , edited 10/23/17

octorockandroll wrote:
Wait, what? You do police work to keep people safe, not to spite people. I'm not saying that cops have to put in extra unpaid hours to do security at a sports game, but if they go out of their way to let everyone know that it's because they don't like a fraction of the people they would otherwise be protecting then they're only justifying the animosity these protesters feel.


It isn't unpaid, they're still on the clock and get overtime. They need to put 400 officers on it but they're refusing to volunteer for that work detail. Leaving them to have to force some officers and call in other agencies to fill the ranks. In other words they are refusing to do their job because they don't think they're getting enough "respect".

It's the Police Benevolent Association behind it. You know, where "Benevolent" always seems to be code for "Shithead". >.>




MysticGon wrote:
Why Kapernick did it is commendable. If the rest are doing it for the same reason they too should be commended. If they are a shot athlete looking for attention or using it as a way to thumb their nose at Trump it's pathetic.


Trump started this one and brought all the attention on it himself. Can't complain about it when you threw the first punch so to speak.
2064 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
31 / M / Sacramento, CA
Offline
Posted 10/23/17 , edited 10/23/17

brianbutler wrote:

This is what I think I know… am I correct?

Colin Kapernick said at the beginning "I am not going to stand up to show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses black people and people of color"

With that being said, I want people to understand how much our children look up to players in the NFL. Our young impressionable children look up to players as if they are Superheroes. Those superheroes are kneeling during the national anthem because they taking a stand and will not show pride in our flag or country. The result is those same superheroes are teaching our children to show disrespect to our flag and country. In my eyes they are damaging our children deeply in ways nobody talks about. I believe Colin also wore socks that depicted police as pigs. Do we really want our children looking down on police as pigs? How can these players possible think that what they are doing will help anything??


Have you ever stopped to think that maybe teaching our children to stand up (figuratively of course) against injustice is a GOOD thing? Maybe we shouldn't teach our children to blindly follow a societal norm that demonizes and oppresses those of color just because they're tired of being treated like criminals by the ones who are sworn to 'protect and serve.'

And honestly, isn't kneeling for something actually more respectful in a way? I mean traditionally, through out history, haven't we knelt in our churches as a sign of respect when we pray to God? Or when in the presence of royalty? How is kneeling for the anthem disrespectful, but kneeling for God a sign of reverence? What is up with this backwards ass logic?
7 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
43 / M
Offline
Posted 10/23/17 , edited 10/23/17

DrunkKanti wrote:


brianbutler wrote:

This is what I think I know… am I correct?

Colin Kapernick said at the beginning "I am not going to stand up to show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses black people and people of color"

With that being said, I want people to understand how much our children look up to players in the NFL. Our young impressionable children look up to players as if they are Superheroes. Those superheroes are kneeling during the national anthem because they taking a stand and will not show pride in our flag or country. The result is those same superheroes are teaching our children to show disrespect to our flag and country. In my eyes they are damaging our children deeply in ways nobody talks about. I believe Colin also wore socks that depicted police as pigs. Do we really want our children looking down on police as pigs? How can these players possible think that what they are doing will help anything??


Have you ever stopped to think that maybe teaching our children to stand up (figuratively of course) against injustice is a GOOD thing? Maybe we shouldn't teach our children to blindly follow a societal norm that demonizes and oppresses those of color just because they're tired of being treated like criminals by the ones who are sworn to 'protect and serve.'

And honestly, isn't kneeling for something actually more respectful in a way? I mean traditionally, through out history, haven't we knelt in our churches as a sign of respect when we pray to God? Or when in the presence of royalty? How is kneeling for the anthem disrespectful, but kneeling for God a sign of reverence? What is up with this backwards ass logic?



Yes, standing up against injustice is a GOOD thing. Kneeling at church or in the presence of royalty is a form of submission. Colin isn’t submitting to anything.. actually he is doing the opposite and says so by saying “I am not going to stand up to show pride in our country”. Can you imagine if I went to church and raised my fist at God or raised my fist at royalty or went to church and said I’m not kneeing to a God bla bla bla.? It’s the opposite of submitting and its divisive.

I totally agree with you the we should teach our children to not follow blindly but to say black skinned people are demonized is just not true. We had a black president for 8 years and I’m proud of that for all people but at the same time embarrassed for some of the black hate that has risen up in a sport I love. Let it go man, let it be, be proud and continue moving forward building on the positives cus there are too many more people (white, black, Mexican etc) who think this is silly. Way more white people stand with black people then the few racist jerks. Those jerks will continue to be there until we teach ALL of our children how to respect everybody and our children teach their children etc.

Children is where it starts and what the NFL is doing is damaging our current round of children.
runec 
41458 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
Online
Posted 10/23/17 , edited 10/24/17

brianbutler wrote:
I totally agree with you the we should teach our children to not follow blindly but to say black skinned people are demonized is just not true. We had a black president for 8 years and I’m proud of that for all people but at the same time embarrassed for some of the black hate that has risen up in a sport I love. Let it go man, let it be, be proud and continue moving forward building on the positives cus there are too many more people (white, black, Mexican etc) who think this is silly. Way more white people stand with black people then the few racist jerks. Those jerks will continue to be there until we teach ALL of our children how to respect everybody and our children teach their children etc.

Children is where it starts and what the NFL is doing is damaging our current round of children.


Oh hey, it's been a while since I've seen the "We had a black President so racism is over" argument. It's even more surprising to see it in light of not only the continued existence of systemic racism but under a President who thinks Nazis are very fine people.

As for damaging children; Historically speaking preaching blind nationalism to children hasn't panned out well. >.>
7805 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
35 / Pacific North West
Offline
Posted 10/23/17 , edited 10/24/17

runec wrote:


Canute wrote:
Not standing for the flag alienates patriotic Americans of all stripes.


Except, you know, members of the military. Given that kneeling is an army tradition and that's where it originated with the NFL protests.

But hey, keep buying the "I Stand For The Flag" t-shirts ( made in China ) because the 5 time draft dodger who shits on military veterans and attacks Gold Star families told you too. >.>



HUH? where do you get that Kneeling is in any US military tradition? Are you talking about the tomb of the unknown? that artistic and not part of any military tradition I have ever heard of. Also what gold star family was attacked? Are you referring to the wife of a recently fallen special forces member? Because to my knowledge the conversation hasn't been released in it's entirety. Not really your place or mine to say whether or not it was said with malice or just poorly chosen words. As far as the draft dodger... well cant disagree with you there. Though to be fair I live near 4 military bases and I can tell you Obama wasnt appreciated as his wife was anti-military. Seems like BushSR/Clinton was the last presidents to be friendly to the US military.
runec 
41458 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
Online
Posted 10/23/17 , edited 10/24/17

DevinKuska wrote:
HUH? where do you get that Kneeling is in any US military tradition? Are you talking about the tomb of the unknown? that artistic and not part of any military tradition I have ever heard of. Also what gold star family was attacked? Are you referring to the wife of a recently fallen special forces member? Because to my knowledge the conversation hasn't been released in it's entirety. Not really your place or mine to say whether or not it was said with malice or just poorly chosen words. As far as the draft dodger... well cant disagree with you there. Though to be fair I live near 4 military bases and I can tell you Obama wasnt appreciated as his wife was anti-military. Seems like BushSR/Clinton was the last presidents to be friendly to the US military.


Trump infamously attacked the Khan family before he was elected and he's now literally feuding with a Gold Star widow. ( Not to mention his attacks on POWs and what not ). That soldier's wife, and his mother have both confirmed the account of what Trump said to her. No one has accused Trump of malice in the call. They're pointing out his tone deaf lack of empathy. The malice part comes from how he responded to the issue. He responded, as he always does, by lying his ass off than attacking.

A normal person with a functional sense of empathy and human decency would just say "I'm sorry, that's not how I intended my words to sound and I didn't mean to upset her." and move on. But Trump has neither so he's attacking a woman who lost her husband in what looks to be a series of operational failures under Trump's watch. Even as more confirmation has emerged he has doubled then tripled down on his attack.

Trump does not accept responsibility for anything and does not admit fault.

As for military tradition, yes, it is. That's exactly where Kaper got it from. Originally, Kaper simply didn't come out to the line for the anthem but no one really cared. A Green Beret friend of his told him he should kneel as that's what they do for a fallen comrade in the field. It's both a sign of respect and a sign of having lost something. That's why you're seeing 90 year old WW2 vets kneeling.



7805 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
35 / Pacific North West
Offline
Posted 10/23/17 , edited 10/24/17

runec wrote:

Trump infamously attacked the Khan family before he was elected and he's now literally feuding with a Gold Star widow. ( Not to mention his attacks on POWs and what not ). That soldier's wife, and his mother have both confirmed the account of what Trump said to her. No one has accused Trump of malice in the call. They're pointing out his tone deaf lack of empathy. The malice part comes from how he responded to the issue. He responded, as he always does, by lying his ass off than attacking.

A normal person with a functional sense of empathy and human decency would just say "I'm sorry, that's not how I intended my words to sound and I didn't mean to upset her." and move on. But Trump has neither so he's attacking a woman who lost her husband in what looks to be a series of operational failures under Trump's watch. Even as more confirmation has emerged he has doubled then tripled down on his attack.

Trump does not accept responsibility for anything and does not admit fault.

As for military tradition, yes, it is. That's exactly where Kaper got it from. Originally, Kaper simply didn't come out to the line for the anthem but no one really cared. A Green Beret friend of his told him he should kneel as that's what they do for a fallen comrade in the field. It's both a sign of respect and a sign of having lost something. That's why you're seeing 90 year old WW2 vets kneeling.


Again the conversations with the Gold Star widow are not public so its possible she took the comment the wrong way. Without hearing the conversation and its context "he knew what he signed up for" doesn't strike me as uplifting or offensive. As far as Presidents trump owning up to possibly poor choice of words... cant argue that. Then again I don't think there is a proper way to talk to a grieving family. regarding President Trump accepting responsibility.... no argument there either since politicians are all liars and thieves.

As far as kneeling goes... The SF in question said he would prefer he at least kneel rather than sit, as Kneeling for lost soldiers is common as a show of reverence for the dead comrades(whereas sitting is has zero excuse for anyone). Saying kneel rather then sit is a far cry from saying its ok to kneel. Though I am not aware of any military branch observing kneeling as a tradition, rather standing at attention or saluting is far more likely be be considered the status quo, and is observed and military funerals. I dont speak for all military obviously but the many I associate with find the NFLs choice of when to boycott disrespectful. The stance they are trying to take is commendable(though misguided IMO) however the blow back is from the timing they choose to boycott. The NFL and the players have recognized this and thus come to agreements to find alternative ways to let the players make their political demonstrations. This tells me the boycotting players are either boycotting half heartedly or understand the significance of how their actions are viewed by the public. Viewer ratings and ticket sales show a good portion of the public that pays their salaries dont agree with when they choose to protest, not what they choose to protest.
87232 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
46 / M / WA
Offline
Posted 10/23/17 , edited 10/24/17
Dr. King always respected America, he wanted America to live up to the ideals of The Declaration. Since his day great strides have been made, things are much better (they will never be perfect) so what exactly are these kneelers/sitters trying to accomplish? What will have to occur for them to say, “Now, I am proud of America?”

They have no free speech while they are working for the NFL, if they want to continue disrespecting America, they may do it in their private time. Standing for the anthem is a common tradition that unifies Americans (one of the few left) - it ought to be preserved.
3445 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
Online
Posted 10/23/17 , edited 10/24/17

dougeprofile wrote:
Dr. King always respected America, he wanted America to live up to the ideals of The Declaration. Since his day great strides have been made, things are much better (they will never be perfect) so what exactly are these kneelers/sitters trying to accomplish? What will have to occur for them to say, “Now, I am proud of America?”
They're trying to draw attention to and hopefully lower the use of excessive force by police against black people, though admittedly, since Trump started tweeting about it the message seems to have gotten mixed up, so that may not be true for all of them. As for your second question, that's something only they could answer.


They have no free speech while they are working for the NFL, if they want to continue disrespecting America, they may do it in their private time. Standing for the anthem is a common tradition that unifies Americans (one of the few left) - it ought to be preserved.


As far as I'm aware, there's nothing in their contracts saying they have to stand for the National Anthem. Besides, forcing people to do so is a step down the slippery slope towards North Korea-esque totalitarianism.
7805 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
35 / Pacific North West
Offline
Posted 10/23/17 , edited 10/24/17

Mishio1 wrote:

As far as I'm aware, there's nothing in their contracts saying they have to stand for the National Anthem. Besides, forcing people to do so is a step down the slippery slope towards North Korea-esque totalitarianism.


lol well I guess the MLB, NHL, and NBA are bound for totalitarianism... as its in their contracts to stand when asked for the national anthem. Though you are corrects its only suggested and not required to stand for NFL members... though after all the negative publicity I would bet thats going to change.


Mishio1 wrote:
They're trying to draw attention to and hopefully lower the use of excessive force by police against black people...


which is a bit of a strawman argument statistically speaking.
3445 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
Online
Posted 10/23/17 , edited 10/24/17

DevinKuska wrote:

lol well I guess the MLB, NHL, and NBA are bound for totalitarianism... as its in their contracts to stand when asked for the national anthem. Though you are corrects its only suggested and not required to stand for NFL members... though after all the negative publicity I would bet thats going to change.

Perhaps. IMO, forcing people to do stuff like that kind of contradicts the point of doing it in the first place. That's not respecting your country, that's respecting the power of whoever is making you do it.

Possibly, that's up to the bigwigs in the NFL.


DevinKuska wrote:
which is a bit of a strawman argument statistically speaking.

Honestly, I don't care about the issue enough to bother arguing about that right now, I was just answering Douge's question. It certainly doesn't help that the original intent of the act has gotten mixed up in politics, so it's kind of difficult to take it all that seriously at this point.
3445 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
Online
Posted 10/23/17 , edited 10/24/17

DevinKuska wrote:

crap...I just remembered N. Korea likes Dennis Rodman... NBA are communists!!!!!


Was that just a shitpost, or are you trying to make a point?
First  Prev  1  2  3  4  5  Next  Last
You must be logged in to post.