First  Prev  1  2  3  4  5  6  7  Next  Last
Post Reply Why ‘Indigenous Peoples’ Day’ Is Far Worse Than Columbus Day
Ejanss 
17147 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
Offline
Posted 10/10/17 , edited 10/10/17
...Yyyyy-yeah, whatever. Moving on:


D4nc3Style wrote:

Yes, lets celebrate the people who were murdering, raping, stealing land from there own people way before the white man arrived.

Also, Columbus never reached the Americas.


He reached the AmericaS, if you count San Salvador.

And as for "Barging in and converting the natives to Christianity", that was pretty much the pretext under which Spain agreed to fund his expedition in the first place. (No, he didn't "meet with the Inquisition for saying the world was round", that was added by later authors.)

Spain, just before Elizabeth's Armada, was in the wholesale business of trying to export their Catholic empire, and with the exploring business at its peak, the Vatican at the time was very interested in finding new native markets for missionaries--Especially if they were peaceful natives who were already leading happy non-warlike existences, and welcomed missionaries with open arms.
Such mythical people, if they lived happy agrarian lives, were said to be "natural people" living "in God", which led to the other big myth about Columbus: He didn't think he'd reached India, he'd thought he found a people living "in Dios"....Which is the proper term for South American natives.
qwueri 
25320 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
32 / M / TN
Offline
Posted 10/10/17 , edited 10/10/17

TenzenShadow wrote:

Gonna stop responding to you now. You're either just trolling, not even trying, or just dense. Have a nice day sir.





karatecowboy wrote:

I think it's more about pointing out the blatant hypocrisy. At least, it is for me.

I think it's worth pointing out that the majority of natives who died from contact with Europeans did so from diseases to which they had no immunity or resistance. Pioneers would go out and find whole towns empty, even though it was their first visit there. This was well before germ theory, BTW.
...

This. When a white guy pokes you in the eye it's 'evil'. When a red guy rips out your heart for Quatzecoatl it's "historical practices and indigenous culture".


Right, such hypocrisy in pointing out which government shunted them off onto reservations. Totes even cause "Quetzalcoatl".
25806 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
31 / M / Atlanta, GA, USA
Online
Posted 10/10/17 , edited 10/10/17
Every society has their banditos throughout history and to this day. The spread of western civilization has done a lot to reduce inhumane practices, though, so the history of that is ultimately positive.
Guest Pass Litter Moderator
121301 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
F / Boston-ish
Offline
Posted 10/11/17 , edited 10/11/17
I've deleted a lot of off-topic posts. This will result in a few subsequent posts being out of order, and a "hidden" page until we catch up.
3322 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
29 / M / livin in debauchery
Offline
Posted 10/11/17 , edited 10/11/17
My birthday in on the 10th of October, and I have an irrational gripe about this pointless holiday buzzing around me like an angry mosquito every year. lol
12354 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
M / People's Republic...
Offline
Posted 10/11/17 , edited 10/12/17

qwueri wrote:



Right, such hypocrisy in pointing out which government shunted them off onto reservations. Totes even cause "Quetzalcoatl".


Are there Aztec reservations in Mexico and other Central American countries? I haven't heard of it, but there could be.
qwueri 
25320 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
32 / M / TN
Offline
Posted 10/11/17 , edited 10/12/17

karatecowboy wrote:

Are there Aztec reservations in Mexico and other Central American countries? I haven't heard of it, but there could be.


Are descendants of Aztecs participating in Indigenous Peoples day?
20786 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
48 / M / Auburn, Washington
Offline
Posted 10/12/17 , edited 10/12/17

karatecowboy wrote:

I'm not sure those words mean what you think they mean.



Your article basically says "indigenous people did bad stuff, and therefore should not be recognised."

Replace "indigenous" with "black," and you have an obviously racist statement. Using a bigger word doesn't make it less racist.

I made a really hilarious typo on that last sentence, but I fixed it and I'mma let you figure out what it was all by yourself.
15444 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
Offline
Posted 10/12/17 , edited 10/13/17
really good question
i dont know how to answer that.
Posted 10/10/17 , edited 10/11/17
Okay can we just agree that some people on this forum believe white people or at least western civilization is inherently superior and be done with it.
363 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
32 / M / Playstation VR
Offline
Posted 10/10/17 , edited 10/11/17
I don't normally pay attention to most of the stupid political threads on this forum, but the OP's post really rubs me the wrong way. Hi, Native American here. Full disclosure, I'm half, but if you looked like I do, you'd identify that way as well. I grew up in a mostly white rural community and I definitely stood out. I don't consider it a bad thing at all, it just was how it was. Anyway, on to my rant.

I cannot stand this bullshit argument of "that race did it too" as if it excuses the behavior of some white people. Columbus was directly responsible for killing and enslaving a lot of indigenous people. Indirectly, he left so much more in his wake. So, the reason we should not have an "Indigenous People" day is because "they did it too, and they were worse." Well, uh, #notallnatives.

For some reason, some people think that questioning Columbus Day or the character of its namesake is some direct attack on white people. These people feel the need to come to the defense of some dude who did reprehensible things as if it reflects poorly upon all white people. This defense, "they did it too," wouldn't even hold up in the court of my mother when I got in trouble. How the hell does it justify keeping a holiday?

Clearly, though, this must be about taking away a holiday from white people, and not about celebrating and raising awareness of a culture that was directly harmed by Columbus's actions. "Someone's trying to take away our white holiday and give it to those filthy savages!" It had nothing to do with what some jabroni did a long time ago. "Those natives were just as bad!" As if that justifies anything.

One other thing drives me crazy about this whole premise. Did you think an "Indigenous People Day" was all about tribal societies a quarter to half a millennium ago? Did you think we were all dead? Or maybe, I guess we done fucked up. Some of us natives had ancestors that were killers and slavers. I guess we don't get our own holiday now that we're just as bad as those old white folks.

The funny thing is, I don't even care about Columbus Day. It's just another unimportant holiday people use as an excuse to buy cheap things on sale or see a parade. Most of America's origin is wrapped up in an idealized portrait of reality, anyway. I don't care if we keep it or scrap it. Don't drag us natives down with it. That pisses me off.
1644 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
Canada, Toronto
Offline
Posted 10/13/17 , edited 10/13/17

D4nc3Style wrote:

Yes, lets celebrate the people who were murdering, raping, stealing land from there own people way before the white man arrived.

Also, Columbus never reached the Americas.


Are you an uneducated fundamentalist? The Europeans were murdering, raping, and stealing land from their fellow Europeans at their Age of Conquest more so than the non-Europeans; at the very least, the European brutality against other Europeans were caused by their own agency. The European colonists not only cause brutality direct but also indirect both intentionally and unintentionally. The Europeans explorers disrupt the balance of power in many societies outside of Europe which then cause war and chaos. The Europeans disrupt the trade network among the Native Americans which destablized their power relations and result in power struggle. Contrary to Euro-centric belief, the European imperialists cannot conquer other non-European tribes with brute force; they often need to use shameful methods to manipulate the non-Europeans and play on the hatred between those tribes before they could conquer them.

Although the Europeans imperialists accuse African for slavery to justify the conquest of African tribes, the European imperialists ironically glorify the Roman Empire where half of the citizen are slaves. The Europeans are also the root cause of the African slavery: many Africans tribes were trading slaves to gain European weapons so they can protect themselves from other African slave raiders. To elaborate, the Europeans were selling weapons to the intially few African slave raiders so those tribes could raid and obtain more slaves. Other African tribes then attempted to obatin weapons to defend themselves from slavery and the Europeans provides the most convenient source of those weapons. Since the Europeans accept only slaves for weapons, many non-slave-raiding African tribes engage in slave raiding themselves to obtain the weapons for self-defense from slave raiders.

Also, who said that Columbus never reach America? Columbus did reach America but, as I already post, other Europeans might already been trading with the Native Americans in secret. I should make a summar of my last post for emphasis: only a small percentage of aboriginal tribes are as brutal as the European colonists and those brutality from those few aboriginal tribes may actually be exaggerated or occur in more justifiable context.


Kavalion wrote:

Every society has their banditos throughout history and to this day. The spread of western civilization has done a lot to reduce inhumane practices, though, so the history of that is ultimately positive.


You are making Western-centric assumptions; stop with the assumption that the Western countries are to the other countries as the protagonist of a old-fashoined harem show are to his harem of girls. The Western countries are not the only people who fight against inhumane practices and they are not the leading force of good against evil; that is a ego-centric delusion from the mainstream Western media. For example, the Western people are not the only supporters of feminism; in fact, feminism in non-Western nations are almost dependent on the locals instead of Western power.

The social liberal in US have majority control of the news and they are using the news to criticize Trump so why do the US news never mention any loss of justice from US to foreign nations? Answer: the US are not the agency of good in the developing nations; the US provide hero service in the first world, who can provide their own hero service anyway, but they are barely provide hero service to the third world so the third world nations did not suffer just because Trump became president in US.
28332 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
22 / M / Prison
Online
Posted 10/10/17 , edited 10/11/17
Hideyoshi does have a point. Columbus is one man, and his intentions were not most certainly not in the best interest, nor did all natives participate, such as not all whites participated in atrocities. It also means to mention that the native Americans were largely oppressed for centuries, but persisted, and I wouldn't characterize their history and cultural contributions as being of just savagery, since many cultures do have those blood on their hands.

Not quite sure though where to stand, but I suppose Indigenous Day has a point, in a way.
12354 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
M / People's Republic...
Offline
Posted 10/13/17 , edited 10/13/17

HideyoshiJP wrote:

For some reason, some people think that questioning Columbus Day or the character of its namesake is some direct attack on white people. .


That's because we've been around the block enough times. We know that with these types, "The issue is never the issue; the issue is the cultural revolution". Columbus Day is not about the bad things he did, it's about the monumental achievement he made and what it meant for Western Civilization -- it's expanse, and bringing the fruits of the Enlightenment to a whole new hemisphere, and setting up lands where the average man was more than a serf. The leukophobes and oikophobes know this; these are the same people who say that white people are the root of all oppression in the whole world. The reason we do what appears to be a tu quoque fallacy is because we're shining a light on a double standard. When you consider the double standard, the real motive becomes clear. It's not a sincere attempt to clarify history by showing some bad things a man did that were rather paltry my common indigenous cultural standards. It's about undermining and degrading anything that may glorify Western civ. or make it look desirable or good.

First  Prev  1  2  3  4  5  6  7  Next  Last
You must be logged in to post.